Out of body all in the mind?

Originally posted by el1jah
reply to post by IKTOMI

 

I dont know what you are getting at, thats not in the link I posted, and If it is (and I missed it), It has nothing to do with the actual writings of Patanjali or Vivekananda. You obviously missed the point though

Obviously you know way more than me about enlightenment and being out of the body.

abaracadabara hokus pocus scooby doo chana masala . GFYS

Bout all I want to say is millions of people from all over this Planet are having similiar hallucinations hate to say it (no I don't ) Dr's and Scientist don't understand how our brains work completely because they only study mostly the small percentage the Human uses.

Imagine what we would be capable of if we used 100% instead of 2%.

This time 1 week ago give or take an hour or so I died on an operating table and remained so for a dangerously long time. I felt myself float away and enter the body of another person living in a different time in a completely different part of the world. It REALLY didn't feel like a dream, it was very real feeling and has actually left me feeling rather uneasy. Maybe I experienced 'hell' but definately stuff happens after, I am without a doubt.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


I've had obe's since the age of 12. I'm now 31 and there are worlds all around us.. Science has been wrong more times than it has been right.. Find your own truths...
"Magic is just science that we don't understand yet"

Originally posted by Malcram
reply to post by Alexander_Supertramp

 

So, how do you feel about the fact that matter is energy and that matter has a quantum basis with laws quite different to classical physical reality, although there is some 'interaction'. They are inextricably linked, a continuum rather than two separate things.

Do you see how a similar understanding might relate to OBEs and resove the issues you have with a supposed problem of interaction and 'duality'?

edit on 14-7-2011 by Malcram because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-7-2011 by Malcram because: (no reason given)

Thank you for the intelligent reply amidst the bickering. To answer your question, I have absolutely no idea! From everything I've heard regarding quantum physics, physicists have no idea how quantum physics is applicable to reality as we know it. They know that the two are connected, but the how is a mystery. (i.e., when quantum particles move, does that have an affect on how atoms/particles move? I don't have a clue, and I don't think they know either).

I am not saying OBEs are fake or anything less than what people who have experienced them claim to be (my dad included). I am saying, however, that I personally must take a skeptical approach to all extraordinary claims, and unless someone can convince me that an OBE is more than neurons firing, I just find it implausible. I'd love to be wrong though, it sounds awesome!

reply to post by Alexander_Supertramp


Healthy skepticism is handy for developing a reliable intellect.

But there does come a point when skepticism becomes a counterproductive burden.

Originally posted by observe50
Bout all I want to say is millions of people from all over this Planet are having similiar hallucinations

hate to say it (no I don't

) Dr's and Scientist don't understand how our brains work completely because they only study mostly the small percentage the Human uses.

Imagine what we would be capable of if we used 100% instead of 2%.

Yes,,Science and Dr.s are almost useless unless it serves their experimentations on the human body as it has for illusional years. This is the reason they keep shoving pills down peoples throats while telling them that herbs are bad for them, statistics say quite the opposite.

Now we know why Doctors call what they Do, Practice.

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


I made a thread regarding this topic a while back, I believe it was by a different group of researchers. Anyway, I posted the thread and chaos ensued. The problem with new agers is they wont ever let go of their beliefs no matter how much evidence is provided to the contrary.

Here's the thread if you are interested

Out of body experiences just the product of a confused mind

Originally posted by Griffo
reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

 

I made a thread regarding this topic a while back, I believe it was by a different group of researchers. Anyway, I posted the thread and chaos ensued. The problem with new agers is they wont ever let go of their beliefs no matter how much evidence is provided to the contrary.

Here's the thread if you are interested

Out of body experiences just the product of a confused mind

Yeh since you already talked about it the whole thing has been cleared up because you can cite and quote other people who disbelieve it to be possible. Sounds bullet proof.

I'll keep my ability to discern reality for myself I'm having a good time.

You go on ahead without us we'll only slow you down in your epic search for scientific fact

Originally posted by Griffo
reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

 

I made a thread regarding this topic a while back, I believe it was by a different group of researchers. Anyway, I posted the thread and chaos ensued. The problem with new agers is they wont ever let go of their beliefs no matter how much evidence is provided to the contrary.

Here's the thread if you are interested

Out of body experiences just the product of a confused mind

'New-Agers" thats funny.

The problem with these pseudo intellectuals is they won't ever let go of their beliefs no matter how much evidence is provided to the contrary.

Boring in body experience is just a product of a lazy poisoned mind.

reply to post by observe50
It needs to be said.. the whole thing about us only using 2% (or 10% w/e) of our brain is garbage and been debunked ages ago.

reply to post by IKTOMI


Your tone is all wrong.

A condenscending elitist approach has never ever convinced one of anything regardless of how right or wrong they may be.

You need more cowbell.

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

It seems that obe's is afterall nothing more than just hallucinations. Now i know there are some that will strongly disagree with this, maybe even having experienced it themselves.

The mind traps you, the mind frees you. All things are constructs of the mind, and words are used to justify those constructs in this world, so call it what you will, for those who see and know.

Know that it does not matter what you call it, but what you call it defines you, not what it actually is. This whole world is a construct of the mind, or soul or over-soul or higher self or whatever you want to call it.

Scientists now a days are not the be all, and end all concerning all that there is between heaven and earth, and they always don't add the observer in to there equations. And as we know when we observe something, it changes.

Scientists now a days are not the be all, and end all concerning all that there is between heaven and earth

And neither are the spiritual/religious types who have many (often conflicting) views about the soul, God, and what happens to the soul after death. I'd rather take into consideration many different viewpoints and opinions on the matter, than the opinion of one atheist or spiritual guru.

Hi Saturn,

Apologies up front mate for if I go off waffling again

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I can cure cancer with about 3 dollars worth of materials from the local supermarket.
I don't need to prove it to anyone...nor will I. just believe me. I am special and smart and anyone whom hasn't figured out what I know are just idiots...and no, I won't tell you the secrets.
I have no need to prove anything
Because I am totally selfish

I understand the sarcasm well enough and it pains me if you have come across people who behave like that.

I for one do not think myself special, despite a very unusual lifetime of spiritual experience/work.. it's always best to come from a position of humility.

My point was that I am over the academia push for "put up or shut up".. laying down the rules from their one eyed approach to life in general it would seem. Rules that work in certain environments but that have no application or worth in the field of spiritual endeavour. The two are like chalk and cheese... and is one of the stumbling blocks in researching this 'phenomena'.

You should really try to work on getting such claims eliminated...there are people whom could use this out of body travel to better themselves, others, the world...why wouldn't you want to expose people to the truth verses let people stomp all over something you know to be fact?

People have always stomped all over what I know from my own experience. It was the case in the 1960's, 70's, 80's, etc. That has not changed even with the spread of the new-age movement/Industry.. which I perceive by the way as having veered down the same road as all other human endeavour to Greed and Control. Hence why I am not part of this new-age Industry.

It really doesn't matter at all what people think about OBE, nor what science says about it so far.

It may seem selfish to you Saturn for people not to want to be involved in the scientific experimentation. But many are working to help other people.. one at a time. Because for many people it is easier initially to have a human guide present to walk them through things if needed.

No one needs to OBE to better themselves.. sure it may offer them a non-physical experience which will lead them ever so slowly towards moving beyond Fear.. but that's about as far as it goes for learning much at all from the limited 'astral realms'. Bettering oneself in Life is more about mastering oneself, our focus.. what we place out attention on, being aware of our choices in each and every moment and choosing to respond rather than react, etc. All of which are hallmarks of those improving themselves.

I see no benefits in zooming around in the lower levels of the astral.. it is like sight-seeing for tourists yet it offers very little for real growth.. witness this is so with the vast majority of new-agers who are choosing to remain within a limited scope of understanding... much like religionists are.

Who cares is anyone whom doesn't want to live in a theocratic world of superstition over science...if there is something that is provable, then prove it...its pretty simple, then we can usher in a new age of travel and whatnot once its proven...we can understand the universe a bit more...sounds like a good deal to me,

What I see here (not you personally) and many times over my lifetime is that those who "care" only wish to seek out and find something they Believe is at fault in order to prove their superiority and enforce their world view. Hence why I think it doesn't matter what they think.

I agree with the possible benefits to human kind's understanding of what surrounds us.. and I do agree it would be wonderful for all people to Know by direct experiece for themselves.. in a perfect world view that is. But my experience has also shown me that their are many groups with agendas using the astral realms to play out their agendas.. and I would prefer to help people avoid those traps instead of letting them run willy-nilly into it.

Sort of...it gives hope.
Again, like claiming you know the secret cure to cancer, yet you won't prove it...well, joe with cancer whom asks for some proof as he is considering radiation therapy has a stake in the claim...why -wouldn't- you try your best to prove to him you have the cure?
Again, either its totally selfish, a delusion, or a willful lie...has to be one of the three

I wouldn't try to prove a thing to Joe, instead I would offer to assist him personally if I could... and that way allow him to find his own proofs.

One thing with healing the illness we humans attach to is that the individual must play an active role in their wellness, not just want to be healed. This means they must work on their Thinking by observing their patterns of thought in order to understand the negative effects they are creating within themselves by their Beliefs, work at living a more healthy way, learn to live more positively and learn to accept that sometimes we do not have the right to interfere in another Souls choices for experience...even if they ask for the help.

It matters to me personally, because I would quite like to do this...I have tried for years and failed, I have put it in the "probably bunk" catagory overall...however always open to new evidence and methods.
I want proof to keep me encouraged to seek out something new I don't know about the cosmos.

Thank you for sharing this information

Over all the years I have learned one major thing about what creates the blocks to our success seeking experience for ourselves. Funnily enough, what we Believe about it all, what concepts we hold dear (our attachments) and our thoughts are the only things that can prevent or limit one's ability to experience the non-physical reality existing all around us in every moment.

All of these things can be said to originate in our Cultural Indoctrinatoin that began at the moment of our Birth and was supported by everyone we ever met as we were schooled into how to become a productive human clone that does not look outside the Box offered by that Indoctrination... basicall saying that the Limitations were brainwashed into us from the start.

I was taught as a teenager to "come to practice as if naked". Meaning to have no thoughts about what could or should be, no Beliefs about anything, no attachments to certain outcomes, etc. Which is why things have worlked so well for me over the years.

Over the years I also found that many Males have difficulty with gaining direct experience for themselves. I wondered for a long time about why this was so. During one on one sessions with men, some are easily able to let go of the need to have Control, some can easily relax and stop their Mind or logical thinking process interfering.. most as yet can't. So these people need to work in baby-steps of learning how to master their thinking process first before they can attain any direct and personal experiences.

Strong minded men have the hardest time gaining experience outside the physical. The logical thinking process does not work with the non-physical reality.. the two clash and create blockages to what you can experience. I know that sounds a bit crazy, but it is a fact I learned for myself while working with other people in small groups or one on one.

Force a view, or push for truth?

So far all we have found are small truths that can vary over time and in some cases need to be thrown out when we find the theories no longer explain the observations. The same will hold true over time for spiritual research.. and in the case of OBE, as I said earlier in this thread, once we start to wonder about the interface between the physical vehicle and the spiritual driver we will begin to make ground.

But, that approach requires some acceptance of their being an interface and a non-physical driver.. and as yet this concept is being hammered hard for being "wrong" in the eyes of academia. So we can't even start to develop the methodology to research the "unknown" until that changes.

Because if they are lying, then they should pay for their lies with the full weight of public resentment towards deceptive individuals. Lots of money is made in the new age circuit in purchasing their books, their CDs, etc...along with religions around the world seeing someone is lying to remove from their flock to follow a lie.

I still struggle with the Belief and Expectation that everyone Lies all the time. I've never seen this until I joined internet forums from the States. I do know now that most people think it is okay to Lie.. and many will provide ridiculous scenarios to justify when it is okay to Lie.

Myself, I dislike dishonesty intensely. I see no need for it EVER. To me wealth and fame are nothing of real importance as they are transitory things.. just Things which do nothing to improve us as human beings.

Now you are talking New Age Industry. It is a sad relic of what it could have been when it initially began as a movement to awakening. Greed and Control entered the equation via the waylaying agendas in play and changed the direction completelty until it is nothing more than a new Religion of sorts.

Not saying you cannot find some real Gems amongst it all, but you would waste many lifetimes trying to sift through all the BS to find them. Hence why I think it important to work one on one or in small groups to assist people to their awakening process... and not charge a fee for what is free to me.

The Industry has ruined it for the Honest and Earnest.

As someone whom possibly can do something unique, then you have a choice...either help us with our primitive infant science so the world can grow bit more, or you can retard the process by suggesting magical things yet decide not to help out society at large inch a bit more down the understanding path.
If you have such abilities, and can prove it, I think you should feel compelled to get the information out. You will be dead one day, and knowledge not shared is lost...its dark age thinking..willful subterfuge...if I learn a fact and I can prove it, your damn right I am going to share it...why wouldn't you? and why wouldn't you do everything possible to establish this fact as proof through scientific investigation to the best of your ability?

Well, I see it this way mate.. I am helping individuals to find their own experience and thus their own truths about reality. For now, in the current worldly environment this is the most effective way to move forward.

This will not change, as I said above, until science starts to think outside the precious box, starts to consider the possibility of a driver operating the physical vehicle through an 'energetic' interface that runs an Operating System called "Mind" which in turn creates electro-chemical reactions in the bio-computer.

I don't truly understand what the hold-up is there. I mean, science happily accepts that an electron can jump state and disappear from the physical reality only to return at a later time.. it can happily consider and try to research many things that were considered Crazy in the past, such as the existence of a Multiverse occupied by millions of seperate and possibly unique Bubble-universes, it will research into other Dimesnions.. BUT.. it refuses to consider the very real possibility that the Brain and it's functions are only a Tool used specifically for Experience on this rock by a non-physical Being... the Soul.

Until we can make that step out of our self-inflicted limitations of perception the only way forward is to share one on one or work in small groups as said before, and to offer Seeds in forums for others to experiment with for their own growth, etc.

Then check it...show up the current understandings with proof that they got it wrong...else shut up and accept what is being taught...prove your claim, or hush

No. How about a Truce instead?

How about each side of the equation accepting that they do not know it all yet and that there is room to move as we grow and learn about ourselves over the coming centuries?

Lastly, thank you for you well though tout reply, I do appreciate the time you spent with me.

This is a topic that can not be debated, it must be experienced. During my most vivid OBEs(not all, just the most vivid), my awareness was magnitudes higher than that of waking reality or dream states. I've had other experiences which I dont feel like going into detail on the internet witch have totally shattered my perception of reality. Until you have your own experiences, you wont get it. End of story. Study it all you want, then talk to me in the halls of amenti

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by IKTOMI

 

Your tone is all wrong.

A condenscending elitist approach has never ever convinced one of anything regardless of how right or wrong they may be.

You need more cowbell.

It is intended as theatre projecting back a mirror image of themselves and their own approach.

A bit of semi instant karma if you will

Whether they get or not I don't really care.

Honey badger doesn't give a sh*t

reply to post by CREAM


I understand where you're coming from, but the fact is, just because you perceive it to be out-of-the-body doesn't mean that's actually what's occuring. People can be easily deceived by their own senses. Not trying to disprove anything. Just playing devil's advocate here, I haven't made up my mind either way (and likely won't).

Originally posted by Balkan
reply to post by CREAM

 

I understand where you're coming from, but the fact is, just because you perceive it to be out-of-the-body doesn't mean that's actually what's occuring. People can be easily deceived by their own senses. Not trying to disprove anything. Just playing devil's advocate here, I haven't made up my mind either way (and likely won't).

With that logic lets follow it out to its end with every subject.
The body doesn't exist.
Mind doesn't exist.
Perception doesn't exist.

What are we left with?

wink wink nudge nudge

Scientists say so!

Therefore we should all just ignore the documented cases of NDE's and OBE's where people have correctly recalled details including surroundings, what was said and what was being done while dead, or when no where near the location because that is just coincidence and it was all in their mind. There is no purpose to life we are just a living combination of random coincidences or the result of trial and error that took place for no reason at all.

I'll keep believing there is more to life thanks - if I am wrong it wont matter because according to scientists there was no point in this life. But if I am right I may be better off than everyone that threw away their life thinking there was nothing more to it.