ATF beginning to confiscate ammunition?

Originally posted by Sky watcher

Originally posted by Screwed
Everytime i go to the gun range I am reminded of just how many people are in this country who own high powered firearms and that makes for alot of ammunition.
If the ATF is going to confiscate ammo I think it might me a little too late.
Most fire arm enthusiasts have plenty to get the job done.

Yep, I grin at the fact that we Americans purchased more guns and ammo than it would have taken to outfit the whole Russian and Chinese armies. All right before Obama was elected because everyone knew he was gonna go after the guns and ammo..

Its high time someone put a stop to this Administration at least, all though it would be nice to have a complete do over.

I started working for a firearms dealer in August of '08. We had about 45-55 black rifles and tactical shotguns combined throughout that fall. We would sell one AR type rifle maybe once every other week. Tactical shotguns were a different story maybe 2-3 a week. November 3rd we were still at full capacity in AR's. My son was born on the 4th (the day Obama was elected) so I missed a day of work. I went back Wednesday and we had ZERO tactical shotguns and ZERO AR's. I thought we were going to war it was insane. Then came the .380 shortage and no primers and powder for reloading.

There are a LOT of armed Americans out there, and all I have to say is whoever shows up to confiscate weapons/ammo better be driving tanks.

Originally posted by Shamatt
reply to post by Anonymous Avatar

 

Thanks for that. I do understand the mechanism they are using. What is confusing me is the "because it can be used in pistols" link. You could go and buy one of a hundred pistols, and all the ammo you want for it. What is the cignificance that A) this amo can be used in both pistols and rifles, or B) that it is .223 amo?

Is the argment just that these powerfull rifle bullets should not be permitted in hand guns because of the tighter restrictions on them?

I wonder how many other hand guns with their native amo would be as powerful as this combination? Which again brings us back to the reason they are linking pistols and rifles? I can't see the logic.

A .223 bullet will travel at speeds of 2,514 fps out of a 9 inch barrel and penetrate 1/4 inch steel. Compare that to a 9mm that only travels at around 1,500 fps out of the same barrel (I'm not taking into account grain weights of bullets, but these numbers are accurate.)

9mm performance with barrel length

Discussion about bullet velocities for AR & AK pistols

Instead of going after the manufactures of the firearms, which could potentially come up with a design someday that they would want to use in the military, they go after the smaller ammo manufactures. But you will never see the US go after companies like Remington who started it all.

Lake City Army Ammunition Plant

All of this is a blatant signal that shows that the US government has their hands in big, medium, and small business and there is nothing anyone can do about it. We are slowly evolving into a police state. What I fear is another terrorist attack (either the false flag variety or the real deal), because that will surely lead us to a system of marshall law. Nobody will be trusted.

Well, hold on to your asses because it is almost here.
You are alive at a very VERY important time in American/world history.
You WILL be called upon and your help WILL be needed....

This is a time where HEROS and cowards are made.
This is a time that will be written about in future history books.
Do you want your name to be the answer to a history question in grade school or
do you want to live as a slave?

The time is here to really dig down deep and find out which side you are going to stand with.
You will either conform or you will be labled a domestic extremist,arrested, and never seen nor heard from again.

Unless, you go out in a blaze of glory.

I wish we weren't headed where we are headed.
But, all the wishing in the world isn't making it happen.
You WILL be forced to come down HARD on one side or the other.
Unfortunately, there will be NO in between.

I pray and pray EVERYNIGHT that I am wrong!!!!!!
I pray I am just crazy!!!!

I AM NOT!

Hold on. The site referenced in the OP sells ammunition. That is the company's motivation. They offer no independently verifiable facts supporting their claim of government intrusion.

Don't get too worked up over this yet. It sounds to me like somebody in purchasing mismanaged their inventory and is trying to unload .223 in bulk by spreading rumors of potential scarcity--a classic method of artificially inflating product demand.

I hope I'm right, but I very well could be wrong. Just something to think about...

Originally posted by NthOther
Hold on. The site referenced in the OP sells ammunition. That is the company's motivation. They offer no independently verifiable facts supporting their claim of government intrusion.

Don't get too worked up over this yet. It sounds to me like somebody in purchasing mismanaged their inventory and is trying to unload .223 in bulk by spreading rumors of potential scarcity--a classic method of artificially inflating product demand.

I hope I'm right, but I very well could be wrong. Just something to think about...

I seriously doubt this is a ploy to increase sales... I first heard this story on a gun forum that linked to another gun forum where the president on the company (Elite Ammunition) is a sponsor (meaning he pays $ to the website in exchange for advertising) and has 1500+ posts, posted a message describing the issue... For someone who is that established in a community to try and fabricate a story like this - They would lose all credibility as it wouldn't take too long to figure out.


His thread

reply to post by CommandoJoe


Like I said, it's just something to consider before jumping to conclusions, and I sincerely hope I'm right but fully admit I could be wrong.

Is there anything directly from ATF that can be offered in support of this company's claim? Please don't get me wrong--I'm not defending the government by any means. It just struck me as odd that no one in this thread has pointed out the profit motive that may potentially be operative in this instance.

Originally posted by Anonymous Avatar
reply to post by fixer1967

 

If I remember correctly anything with under a 16 inch barrel is considered a pistol according to the BATFE. Again I am not 100 percent on this.

Obviously you can configure ARs and AKs and many other "rifles" with shorter barrels. If you have less than than 16 inch barrel you can not have a butt stock on the gun since it is considered a pistol.

There is another thing they don't tell you. If it's under 16" You have to register it with the ATF as a Short Barrel Rifle or SBR. On top of that there are only a few states that even allow them. When it comes to slapping the parts together to make your own. It's not a really good idea with the 10yr mandatory sentence. You can count on a charge for every part separately. The laws are already on the books.

reply to post by macman


There is a term that was used recently with the debt ceiling talks. It's to increase "revenue" not taxes. So they will put a "fee" on ammo.

BATFE is not out to confiscate all ammo , their talking about the Trident bullet that EA makes and it's made out of Copper Zinc alloy for the FN57 pistol and PS90

and the reason why there confiscating the ammo is because its Armor-Piercing Capability which will penetrate level II vests with no problem which makes this round a COP KILLER in the wrong hands






www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Can any of you americans explain to me what would happen to america , if say the government had sneakily passed a bill or resolution removing the right to bare arms ? Hypothetically speaking of course

would there be complete chaos ?
would you all go on a gun toting rampage ?

Originally posted by smoking man
BATFE is not out to confiscate all ammo , their talking about the Trident bullet that EA makes and it's made out of Copper Zinc alloy for the FN57 pistol and PS90

and the reason why there confiscating the ammo is because its Armor-Piercing Capability which will penetrate level II vests with no problem which makes this round a COP KILLER in the wrong hands






www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

edit on 13-7-2011 by smoking man because: wrong link

From my link a few posts above:

EA has had to remove our Trident bullets in .223, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC. The BATF has ruled that all of these cartridges are now pistol cartridges.

Any of the above 3 (standard lead FMJ) rifle rounds will easily penetrate level 2 body armor... Don't need trident bullets to beat level 2 armor...



And the 5.7x28 also does not need to be a trident bullet to defeat level 2 body armor...

www.ar15.com...

The FN Hertal 5.7 is the same size as most service pistols, but fires a unique cartridge. The 5.7 shoots a 5.7X28 mm cartridge. The bullets available can vary between several different types. The base cartridge for this weapon is the SS190 (sic). this bullet, when fired from the 5.7 pistol, will perforate 48 layers of kevlar at a distance of 50 meters. and it will pentrate soft body armor worn by police officers, including the trauma plate. The bullet travels at 2,133 fps, which is generally equivalent to the ballistic capablity of a carbine, and just under the ballistic capability of a rifle. This weapon also has very low recoil and is very controllable. The 5.7 has 60% the recoil of a 9mm, which aids the shooter to accurately engage targets very quickly.

reply to post by olliemc84


Those aren't white helmets, they're baby blue. Parts of Africa are horrible places, and one can research just a small amount to see what kind of results these baby blue helmets achieved when they were sent in to "help".

Originally posted by sapien82
Can any of you americans explain to me what would happen to america , if say the government had sneakily passed a bill or resolution removing the right to bare arms ? Hypothetically speaking of course

would there be complete chaos ?
would you all go on a gun toting rampage ?

There would be blood running down the streets. Some gun owners would reluctantly give away their firearms just to keep their families safe from harm. But others would arm their wives and their children with any firearm and as much ammunition they could carry. Again, it wouldn't be American police forces or the military doing it because they wouldn't stand for it. It would be a foreign UN backed force. American politicians would be incredibly stupid to want to confiscate our firearms.

Chaos yes...
Gun toting rampage? If thats what you call us protecting our civil liberties, then absolutely.

Originally posted by sapien82
Can any of you americans explain to me what would happen to america , if say the government had sneakily passed a bill or resolution removing the right to bare arms ? Hypothetically speaking of course

would there be complete chaos ?
would you all go on a gun toting rampage ?

Then we, as American Citizens are open to a truly and fully Tyrannical Govt.

Originally posted by sapien82
Can any of you americans explain to me what would happen to america , if say the government had sneakily passed a bill or resolution removing the right to bare arms ? Hypothetically speaking of course

WHAT? No more short sleeves or tank tops? How will anyone ever get to see these guns (*Flexing*)

Originally posted by sapien82
would there be complete chaos ?
would you all go on a gun toting rampage ?

maybe...

sorry, I couldn't resist...

But in all seriousness, if they tried to take away the right to bear arms, that's when TSHTF...

reply to post by Anonymous Avatar


while i'm a firm believer in the 2nd amendment

i find myself laughing when i see these threads, and the replys

of course the gov is out to disarm you, the better to put you in chains.

not into guns myself [though coming from Harlem, i do know how to make, a zip gun.

stop.

think:


the gov is not afraid of any gun user[s] and are fully prepared to say "see terrorists", and Waco/weaver you as an example to others.

i'm not saying all your efforts/training/skills are useless and or futile.

just that all weapons are merely extensions of the wielder.

there are other types of weaponry, easily available, that the gov is not expecting.
and therefore is completely defenseless against.


"The most powerful weapon in the world only fires neurons."

We need another Red Dawn movie, but instead of Russians and Cubans, it's Feds.

The United States Independence Day was July 4, 1776. Then we formed a Federal government 13 years afterwards in 1989. Awkwardly we wave Federal flags on Independence day to show our patriotism.

Originally posted by Dbriefed
We need another Red Dawn movie, but instead of Russians and Cubans, it's Feds.

The United States Independence Day was July 4, 1776. Then we formed a Federal government 13 years afterwards in 1989. Awkwardly we wave Federal flags on Independence day to show our patriotism.

We had a series, Jericho.
It was removed as the series was starting to get into the next Civil/Revolutionary War.
HHHMMM, I wonder why it was removed??