The Jihad is in full swing, id say were already loosing. Religion of peace?

reply to post by Magnum007


That comment was cleary an un knowledgeable one. The only times we have ever spread democracy by force is when the people of the other country are incredibly oppressed, screaming for better lives. You honestly think its a better world where other religions besides islam are considered heresy and following them is a punshable offence? You think its a better world where gays are publicly beheaded? You think its a better world where women cant choose how to dress or go to school? Oh and you think the jihad is not "taking by force"? Talk about kaboom- think about suicide bombers in the name of jihad. Im sorry you feel this way because your thiughts seem pretty ass backwards to me

reply to post by trailertrash


If I was better educated? The merriam webster dictionary definition of jihad is "spiritual holy war to spread islam"
Well "trailer trash" as intelligent as your user name makes you sound, you must be intelligent enough to pick up a dictionary.

As for my education, i almost have a doctorate of science. Lol, better educated. No university educates better than UCLA, I assure you of this.

And really? World take over by missionaries? Please tell me you are joking, right?
maybe if you had a better grasp on reality you would think twice saying peaceful chrstian missionaries dont force their religion or ideas on people. The jihad is quite literally defined as holy war, missionaries arnot in a "holy war" to spread christianity.

And pleade lets compare leviticus to see which users find more violent. Its a book of moses about the children of isreal, ive read it plenty a time. So please lets compare

It's not just about violence, it's about self-defense when you are being persecuted. The quran says over and over again that "persecution is worse than killing" so if someone persecutes you, the quran instructs you to stand up to your oppressors, is this really off base from any other religion or even common sense?

reply to post by filosophia


What exactley are you talking about? Be more specific. If your speaking of the Jihad (what the OP is about) your absoloutly incorrect. The jihad is about waging holy war against non beleivers to spread islam.
Where are your sources to your claim? Yes I saw "persecution is worae than killing" a couple of times in the qua'raan but to say thats all its about is rubbish. DO you even see why that quote is wrong anyways? "Persecution is worse than killing"? Brkther thats not just standing up to someone, were talking aboit murder. And not in self defense but for being persecuted. Murder is never okay and being commanded by god to murder is not right. Not only that, muslim countries are some of the only countries LEFT that still PERSECUTE THEN MURDER PEOPLE PUBLICLY based upon beleifs. If you are in Iran, and you are gay, you are persecuted and publicly hung, strictly for being gay. In a muslim country if you say "allaj does not exist, i beleive jesus is the savior" you will be persecuted and publicly BEHEADED BY SWORD. In mecca, its illegal for a christian church to be built, therefor christians are persecute in mecca. IN FACT if you are a know christian and you even STEP FOOT in Mecca, this is illegal, you will be persecuted, and publicly beheaded by sword. Do you see where this is going? In America are muslims persecuted? No. Thy are allowed to freely worship, build mosques etc. Do you see where this is going? Wheres the self defence? They persecute and murder.

The OP is correct. Who do these moderate Muslims think are fighting against US troops and allies in Afghanistan and Pakistan? They are the Mujahideen! What is a Mujahideen? They are Muslims fighting Jihad!

Jihad definition, from Muslim scholars:

Hanafi Fiqh: "Jihad means to be involved in fighting in the Path of Allah by one's life, wealth & speech." It is further explained "to call the unbelievers towards the true religion of Islam & to fight against them, if they are unwilling to accept this true religion." Maliki Fiqh "The Muslims are to fight with the Kuffar to advance Allah's religion." Shafi`ee Fiqh "The meaning of Jihad in Shara`ee terms is to make utmost effort in fighting in the Path of Allah." Hanbali Fiqh "Jihad means to fight against the unbelievers." (Fadhail-e-Jihad)

The Ruling of Jihad: Imam Saraksi states, "Jihad is obligatory & commanded by Allah. Any person who denies Jihad is a Kafir & people who doubt the obligation of Jihad have gone astray." (Fathul Qadeer, p191, V.5)

Sahibul Ikhtiyar states, "Jihad is an ordained obligation (Fareedhah). One who denies it is a Kafir. The obligation of Jihad has been clearly substantiated in the Quran, Sunnah & by consensus of the Ummah (Ijmah)." (Fathul Qadeer, p191, V.5) one's life, wealth & speech." It is further explained "to call the unbelievers towards the true religion of Islam & to fight against them, if they are unwilling to accept this true religion."

Maliki Fiqh: "The Muslims are to fight with the Kuffar to advance Allah's religion."

Shafi`ee Fiqh: "The meaning of Jihad in Shara`ee terms is to make utmost effort in fighting in the Path of Allah."

Hanbali Fiqh: "Jihad means to fight against the unbelievers." (Fadhail-e-Jihad)

The word Jihad is derived from 'Juhd', which means 'to make substantial effort'. Jihad itself has been defined in the dictionary (Arabic) as 'to make the utmost effort to attain something beloved or to save oneself from something disliked.'

The Scholars of Fiqh (jurisprudence) have agreed that Jihad in Shara`ee terms means 'to fight in the Path of Allah or anything aiding this course.' A more detailed understanding of the term Jihad has been explained by the four major schools of Fiqh as follows.

The Ruling of Jihad Imam Saraksi states, "Jihad is obligatory & commanded by Allah. Any person who denies Jihad is a Kafir & people who doubt the obligation of Jihad have gone astray." (Fathul Qadeer, p191, V.5)

Sahibul Ikhtiyar states, "Jihad is an ordained obligation (Fareedhah). One who denies it is a Kafir. The obligation of Jihad has been clearly substantiated in the Quran, Sunnah & by consensus of the Ummah (Ijmah)." (Fathul Qadeer, p191, V.5)

reply to post by TheUniverse


"Cyprus: Navy chief killed by base munitions blast"

Looks like someone is doing some bombing .

reply to post by sean_uk


Afgahnistan and Pakistan are THEIR countries. I would hope if somebody came into your country you would fight them... dang

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
reply to post by sean_uk

 

Afgahnistan and Pakistan are THEIR countries. I would hope if somebody came into your country you would fight them... dang

I agree. I would do the same. My point is that they are fighting Jihad, the subject of this thread! but while we are on the subject, the Jihadis or Mujahideen, as they prefer to call themselves, are not all from Pakistan or Afghanistan, but from all over the world including those born in UK. They are fighting a Global Jihad.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Ever considered they killed your buddies because your buddies were invading their country?

That makes no sense. The 9/11 attacks occurred before the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq.

Originally posted by trailertrash
"Jihad" is a term which indicates personal struggle to overcome the ways of the world in favor of a higher spiritually. It has been taken to mean violence against others recently though.

That simply isn't true.

• 97% of the Jihad in the Koran is violent Jihad.

• 98% of the Jihad in the Hadith is violent Jihad.


www.cspipublishing.com...

www.answering-islam.org...

reply to post by iBleedSovietR3D


Does violent Jihad exist?

Historians estimate that about 270 million people have been killed by Jihad since Islam came onto this earth.

• 120 million Africans

• 60 million Christians

• 80 million Hindus

• 10 million Buddhists

www.politicalislam.com...

For a religion of peace, it sure has done a lot of killing.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Ever considered they killed your buddies because your buddies were invading their country?

That makes no sense. The 9/11 attacks occurred before the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq.

9/11 wasn't even cited as a PIECE of a reason for the Iraqi invasion... soooooo, yes it makes perfect sense.

The root of this argument lies in "who really carried out 9/11?"

If it WAS Al-Qaeda, then that doesn't explain Iraq now does it?

If it was the US Govt then well, it's all dumb #.

reply to post by iBleedSovietR3D


The life of Muhammad

570 - Born in Mecca
623 - Orders raids on Meccan caravans
624 - Battle of Badr (victory)
624 - Evicts Qaynuqa Jews from Medina
624 - Orders the assassination of Abu Afak
624 - Orders the assassination of Asma bint Marwan
624 - Orders the assassination of Ka'b al-Ashraf
625 - Battle of Uhud (defeat)
625 - Evicts Nadir Jews
627 - Battle of the Trench (victory)
627 - Massacre of the Qurayza Jews
628 - Destruction and subjugation of the Khaybar Jews
629 - Orders first raid into Christian lands at Muta (defeat)
630 - Conquers Mecca by surprise (along with other tribes)
631 - Leads second raid into Christian territory at Tabuk (no battle)
632 - Dies.

www.historynet.com...
www.newstatesman.com...

Muhammad spread Islam by the sword, raided caravans, murdered POWs, assassinated political opponents and enslaved women and children.

That's Jihad as practised by Muhammad, the founder of Islam.

reply to post by iBleedSovietR3D


Have you read the Qu'ran?

There is such a thing as out of context quotes, and most of the quotes you are offering describe a specific time period in the prophet's life where his followers were being persecuted by all the people of his region and being turned against by those he made truces and treaties with. The Qu'ran and the history behind it describe that it is with great reluctance that violent was turned to in those early days of the religion. Furthermore, those who surrendered or did not die in the battles the idol worshipers had against the followers of muhammad were all forgiven and allowed to be without punishment, excepting a few of the leaders from the opposing side.

Most of the other quotes are either hyperbole, or an out of context, also hyperbolic description of another event. Read the entire book and annotate it yourself before you try to act like a scholar ha ha

Originally posted by megawattboss
reply to post by iBleedSovietR3D

 

Have you read the Qu'ran?

There is such a thing as out of context quotes, and most of the quotes you are offering describe a specific time period in the prophet's life where his followers were being persecuted by all the people of his region and being turned against by those he made truces and treaties with. The Qu'ran and the history behind it describe that it is with great reluctance that violent was turned to in those early days of the religion. Furthermore, those who surrendered or did not die in the battles the idol worshipers had against the followers of muhammad were all forgiven and allowed to be without punishment, excepting a few of the leaders from the opposing side.

Most of the other quotes are either hyperbole, or an out of context, also hyperbolic description of another event. Read the entire book and annotate it yourself before you try to act like a scholar ha ha

HEY! Don't talk to him like that! He studied theology for 4 years.

/sarcasm

furthermore, what effect have you seen of this supposed takeover? apparently a few people have been told not to drink outside or something? ha ha ha ha

one, I seriously doubt that's the case, 2 folks of european descent show their mistrust of "infidels" in a much more brutal way on a regular basis, daily all over the country. find me a video of a bunch of "brown" (as I'm sure you hate mongers think of muslims) people beating up a white person. I'm sure I could find you plenty more of a bunch of white people beating up a lone minority. europeans are the only ones who promote hate and violence.

you think it's just exceptional chance that you know only non-radical muslim friends? most are like that, even in the most backwards of the muslim nations.

and THE QU'RAN MAKES A POINT OF EXPLICITLY DENOUNCING THE FORCEFUL CONVERSION OF OTHER PEOPLE; the reverse is never true and never will be true.

Also @ OP: The Qu'Ran has no other equal in the islamic faith. That's a grave factual inaccuracy for you to say otherwise.

Originally posted by megawattboss

...most of the quotes you are offering describe a specific time period in the prophet's life where his followers were being persecuted by all the people of his region and being turned against by those he made truces and treaties with.

That simply isn't true.

The Meccan Koran, when Muhammad was weak has no Jihad passages.

The Medinan Koran, on the other hand, when Muhammad was a powerful warlord, consists of 24% Jihad passages.

Muhammads messages became more and more violent as he grew more powerful.

www.cspipublishing.com...

Originally posted by megawattboss
THE QU'RAN MAKES A POINT OF EXPLICITLY DENOUNCING THE FORCEFUL CONVERSION OF OTHER PEOPLE; the reverse is never true and never will be true.

Can you give us some sources to back that up?

It is my understanding that it is the people of the book (Jews & Chritisians) who are exempt from forceful conversion.