The Jihad is in full swing, id say were already loosing. Religion of peace?

Originally posted by megawattboss
It should be noted that nowhere in the Quran is the payment defined at all in any way, so hate mongers most likely are not able to assess just how unfair and difficult to live with this tax was, as Islamic scholars do not know themselves.

So no argument from you that Christians and Jews had to pay a tax for the pleasure of not being Muslims?

Still, how could you argue that point. Its in the Koran.

Yet the Koran doesn't define how much it should be therefore it doesn't count?

reply to post by laiguana


Ok. Well.

Where was the modern nation of Israel as we know it before it was founded? It wasn't anywhere I guess, was it? Because it hadn't been founded, most likely.

What was there where Israel now is? Was it just a bunch of empty space? I guess Jerusalem was there. Did the Israeli's have somebody sweeping that # for them until they started "their own" country? ha ha ha ha

The answer is, that the nation of Palestine was there. It now isn't because someone decided it was Israel.

Israel took all of its territory by force. They bulldozed homes, probably still bulldoze homes. They used to show footage of Israeli tanks running over children in the news, they stopped showing that though.

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


Enough with Israel...suicide bombing isn't just happening in Israel. Muslims have carried out and condoned suicide bombings wherever they go. They are motivated by their beliefs and have interpreted Jihad to suit their agenda. This cannot be denied. It is part of the Islamic culture.

reply to post by ollncasino


Ok, well in response to this last post, you can go to the quoted post and read where I explain that the Jizya is not defined in the Quran in any way, and in fact the word only occurs one time in the text, leaving a reasonable interpretation to associate it with that same specific conflict which is the context clue that disproves the "message of violence" people would love to promote . So, to reiterate: THE JIZYA IS NOT EVER EXPLICITLY STATED AS A REQUIREMENT OF ANY KIND IN ISLAM ACCORDING TO THE QURAN

So I thought you were having a "debate" with me not trying to have a shouting contest. Amateur lololol

reply to post by laiguana


lol no it's not.

So I guess it is in Jewish people's culture to take countries and land, bulldoze homes, run over children with tanks, shoot people for throwing stones at you, and generally running rampant murdering people and corralling them into spaces surrounded by military checkpoints, right?

I'm just going off of your reasoning.

Originally posted by laiguana
reply to post by My.mind.is.mine

 

Enough with Israel...suicide bombing isn't just happening in Israel. Muslims have carried out and condoned suicide bombings wherever they go. They are motivated by their beliefs and have interpreted Jihad to suit their agenda. This cannot be denied. It is part of the Islamic culture.

I'm muslim, haven't carried out (obviously), or supported suicide bombings. Nor do I believe their to be an "islamic culture". Nations, and ethnicities are encouraged to uphold their culture in Islam. Now if you wanna start talking about the Salafi/Wahhabi point of view of Islam, then you might start getting something close to what you're talking about. Talk to a muslim, and stop believing everything you read, and you'll understand why even muslims don't like the salafi/wahhabi sect. The ruling House of Saud in Saudi Arabia are Wahhabi, that should tell it all.

ETA: and of course you would call "enough with Israel" after given multiple examples of their cruel, home destroying, child murdering, greedy ways.

Originally posted by megawattboss
To reiterate, the word compulsion is used in the text to explain that THERE SHALL BE NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION

Really?

8:39, And fight them on until there is no more fitnah (dissention) and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere.

The fact that the Koran contradicts itself is a real problem for Muslims.

How can Allah be infallible if he contradicts himself?

It does rather undermine the whole basis of Islam.

reply to post by ollncasino


Mr. Amateur,

I already explained that one, didn't you read what I wrote? Oh right, shouting contest

I CAN SHOUT LOUDER THAN YOU SO I'M RIGHT lol

All jokes aside,

Let me pull up the big C word again: CONTEXT. This quote, and all the ones you love to abuse, can be read in their full context as clearly describing a specific conflict in which God allowed Muhammad and his followers to act in self defense against a group of long-time persecutors.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by megawattboss
To reiterate, the word compulsion is used in the text to explain that THERE SHALL BE NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION

Really?

8:39, And fight them on until there is no more fitnah (dissention) and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere.

The fact that the Koran contradicts itself is a real problem for Muslims.

How can Allah be infallible if he contradicts himself?

It does rather undermine the whole basis of Islam.

I addressed this once already, but I'll do it again.

An accurate translation of that verse states "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

reply to post by megawattboss



You're twisting reality to fit your agenda. The reality is that Israel is a nation and following Israel's policy and laws it would never condone the killing of innocent lives. Israel implements a secular, democratic system in which its members and military must abide by. There is no such policy or law when dealing with the Islamic belief system since it is not based on reason to begin with.
What other religion can you name deliberately has children strapped to bombs? I can only name one. What other religion carries out the most terrorist attacks across the globe...with the deliberate intention of killing innocent human life? I can only name one.

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
They couldn't kill him because his uncle, Abu-Talib, was on the high counsel. He was encouraged by his uncle to leave the city, because the counsel was beginning to oppose him, and were preparing to have Muhammad assassinated regardless of whether his uncle objected or not.

I thought you said you were a Muslim?

Muhammad's uncle died before Muhammad was thrown out the city for causing trouble.

Are you sure you are a Muslim?

You made a real school boy error there.

reply to post by ollncasino


ONE more time for you, in fulllll context:

8:38 Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist [persecution of the muslims], that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return [to the action of persecution], then what happened to the ancients has already passed.
8:39 And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

you guys are a bore. I gave the haterz too much credit assuming they'd be more clever in their misappropriation of the Islamic text.

I'm sure you will come back quoting another verse that can be explained in context, or bringing up some pieces of info that are unrelated to the text but somehow illustrate Muslim violence, or even quoting the same verse as has already been explained, or spouting some general, bias, racist drivel with no basis in fact, and all this while continuing to pretend that Israel has absolutely no reason to be reproached in any way whatsoever by any single instance or act of denouncement or violence.

Originally posted by laiguana
reply to post by megawattboss

 

You're twisting reality to fit your agenda. The reality is that Israel is a nation and following Israel's policy and laws it would never condone the killing of innocent lives. Israel implements a secular, democratic system in which its members and military must abide by. There is no such policy or law when dealing with the Islamic belief system since it is not based on reason to begin with.
What other religion can you name deliberately has children strapped to bombs? I can only name one. What other religion carries out the most terrorist attacks across the globe...with the deliberate intention of killing innocent human life? I can only name one.

If you can show me a verse in the Qur'an or a hadith that says we should strap bombs on children, then I'll agree with your point.

However, you can't, so then common sense would say don't assume that just because somebody says they're doing something for Islam, doesn't mean they are.

reply to post by ollncasino


lol you argue like a school boy who knows he is wrong.

learn some proper propaganda. I hope there is a hate monger out there who can argue with greater fluency because it's pretty lame to see you guys being as cookie cutter as possible with your responses.

you sound like straight drones the way you talk about it ha ha

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
They couldn't kill him because his uncle, Abu-Talib, was on the high counsel. He was encouraged by his uncle to leave the city, because the counsel was beginning to oppose him, and were preparing to have Muhammad assassinated regardless of whether his uncle objected or not.

I thought you said you were a Muslim?

Muhammad's uncle died before Muhammad was thrown out the city for causing trouble.

Are you sure you are a Muslim?

You made a real school boy error there.

lol Muhammad visited his uncle on his sick bed (which wasn't yet assumed to be his death bed) at which point the advice was given for Muhammad to leave Mecca. Shortly after the death of Abu-Talib, Muhammad left Mecca for Medina following an attempt by the Quraish leaders to kill him and his companions for preaching.

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
An accurate translation of that verse states

"And fight with them until there is no more persecution and " And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah ; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

I realise that your reading comprehension may be a bit clouded by your desire to read what you want to see, but try reading the above verse again.

In fact, try this one...

8:39, And fight them on until there is no more fitnah (dissention) and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere.

The fact that the Koran contradicts itself - no religious compulsion (for non Jews and Christians) in early verses of the Koran when Muhammad was weak but religious compulsion later in the Koran when Muhammad was an established warlord, is a real problem for Muslims.

How can the Koran be infallible and the word of god when it contradicts itself?

And let's not forget, just to add some flavour to the debate and understand where Allah is coming from

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve (8:55)

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
Muhammad visited his uncle on his sick bed (which wasn't yet assumed to be his death bed) at which point the advice was given for Muhammad to leave Mecca. Shortly after the death of Abu-Talib, Muhammad left Mecca for Medina following an attempt by the Quraish leaders to kill him and his companions for preaching.

So you conceed that Muhammad did leave Mecca after his uncle died?

You are now contradicting your earlier statement.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
An accurate translation of that verse states

"And fight with them until there is no more persecution and " And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah ; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

I realise that your reading comprehension may be a bit clouded by your desire to read what you want to see, but try reading the above verse again.

In fact, try this one...

8:39, And fight them on until there is no more fitnah (dissention) and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere.

The fact that the Koran contradicts itself - no religious compulsion (for non Jews and Christians) in early verses of the Koran when Muhammad was weak but religious compulsion later in the Koran when Muhammad was an established warlord, is a real problem for Muslims.

How can the Koran be infallible and the word of god when it contradicts itself?

And let's not forget, just to add some flavour to the debate and understand where Allah is coming from

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve (8:55)

I don't understand how a verse in disagreement with another faith means compulsion....

Your weak translation proves no point at all. As I stated 3 times already, the correct translation reads "...religion should be only for Allah."
Not that whole justice prevailing and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere piece.

Maybe you don't understand, but none of the verses you've quoted state anything about converting people to Islam.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
Muhammad visited his uncle on his sick bed (which wasn't yet assumed to be his death bed) at which point the advice was given for Muhammad to leave Mecca. Shortly after the death of Abu-Talib, Muhammad left Mecca for Medina following an attempt by the Quraish leaders to kill him and his companions for preaching.

So you conceed that Muhammad did leave Mecca after his uncle died?

You are now contradicting your earlier statement.

No contradiction at all. He left Mecca upon his uncles advice. What did I contradict there buddy?