A Kids Reaction To Gay Couple

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Brilliant post dude.

Originally posted by Helious

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Helious
I find this disturbing somehow. Perhaps it is the word married that is used or that the two men identify themselves as both being husbands. I think that is what bothers me.

That is very confusing to a child, much more confusing than it has to be. He is used to husbands and wife's because that is what men and women do, they get married.

Gay couples while I fully support there rights and the right to be joined with all the same laws and privileges that marriage grants two people, it really needs to be called something else. Confusing children is just one of the many problems that is invited when you call it marriage.

edit on 11-7-2011 by Helious because: (no reason given)

Kid: Why are those men holding hands? How can they both be husbands?

Parent: When two people love each other, they can choose to get married. Married men are called husbands.

Yup, that is so very confusing....

Cause explaining to children about where baby's come from isn't hard enough, now at an early age we should teach them about why uncle sam and uncle larry feel the need to be married too.

See little david, I need to talk to you about the birds and bees and oh yeah, the birds and the birds and the bees and the bees.

Give me a break, leave the children out of your sexual preference and agenda. Let our children learn about sexual preference when they are ready and old enough to understand why such things happen, stop trying to preach it as the natural order of things and pretend it is perfectly natural.

edit on 11-7-2011 by Helious because: (no reason given)

1)Are you really complaining because raising kids is hard? I've got an idea....DONT HAVE THEM. If you are looking for an easy job, perhaps a goldfish would better suit your needs.

2)Children seeing straight couples walking down the street holding hands is an indoctrination just the same as a gay couple is. You are simply more comfortable with the straight couple, and that is why you are okay with it. Dont look now, your ignorance is showing.

3)I'm preaching nothing. I'm saying a gay couple has the right to express their love.

4)Your bias attitude WILL show in your kids. Congrats on helping raise another generation of bigots.

It really is sad how SCARED people are of love.

Originally posted by Helious
Your sense of morality is misleading you and you are robbed of the bigger picture because of your feelings and wanted need for happiness and connection. You don't know the circumstances this video was made, you don't know how this was presented to the child, you fail to realize the video was edited to best suit those who presented it.

Your inherent need for goodness and basic human acceptance and your ideological view of society leads you to a distorted moral view of the world as it is and as it should be. I understand where your coming from, it's just not a place I have been for a long time because I don't day dream anymore.

What are you talking about?

I'm taking a video at face value - - - I am not trying to read more into it - as you seem to want to do. Plus - I personally don't see anything more to the circumstances of this video. You are letting your mind create where it really has no business creating.

My morality is just fine. Integrity and honesty are the basis of my morality.

Homosexuality is a natural birthright - - - it is NOT a behavior.

Originally posted by Helious
I find this disturbing somehow. Perhaps it is the word married that is used or that the two men identify themselves as both being husbands. I think that is what bothers me.

That is very confusing to a child, much more confusing than it has to be. He is used to husbands and wife's because that is what men and women do, they get married.

Gay couples while I fully support there rights and the right to be joined with all the same laws and privileges that marriage grants two people, it really needs to be called something else. Confusing children is just one of the many problems that is invited when you call it marriage.

edit on 11-7-2011 by Helious because: (no reason given)

I mean really, what's more confusing?

"Son, marriage is between a man and a woman who love each other. Civil union is for when a man and a man or a woman and a woman love each other and decide to make it legal so that they can get treated equally by the state to men and women who get married. They cant get married because there are too many ignorant people in this country who are scared of homosexuality and refuse to accept that a man and a man or a woman and a woman can love each other romantically"

"Dad, whats the difference, though?"

"Nothing, son, other than the name."

When I was in the 2nd grade, about this kid's age, my dad's Boss was gay and lived with a partner. We lived in a little company sponsored compound abroad, so they lived a couple houses down the road. I went to visit him couple of times, cause he was a nice guy and always gave me sweets n stuff. He didn't advertise his gayness so when my parents told me I had the same reaction this kid had...I thought about it and then *shrugged*...like...what's the big deal? If it makes somebody happy let him freaking get on with it...even when I found out my dad doesn't like him because he's gay I still went over there. Couldn't understand why my dad wouldn't like somebody because of something like that...the guy was the nicest guy around. Adults forget that kids have their own thoughts. If anything I thought my parents are screwed up.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Stovokor
I tend to agree...marriage today is thought of as a religious institution...

Just by some people. Marriage is available to citizens, whether they are religious or not. I'm an atheist and religion plays no part in my marriage. Marriage is only a religious institution to religious people. To me, it has nothing to do with religion.

Because marriage is offered to atheists and other non-religious people, it should be offered to everyone.
.

edit on 7/11/2011 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)

Thus the reason marriage is not "religious" but a "state" institution, with the fuzzy feeling of sanctioning it in the eyes of "god". I hope that gays get their wish and can marry, then find out that one is getting taken to the cleaners by the other for alimony, support, oh and 50%+ of all the # goes bye-bye... within a years time they will be crying to repeal the act...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Helious
Like I said, I don't have that big of a problem with the video in question outside of the concern that there is a danger in confusing children too young to understand the dynamics of alternative relationships by using words like marriage, married and husband and wife when it pertains to gay couples.

I don't say that as an insult. I do think you are more confused than the child. Children don't need to understand the dynamics of homosexual relationships. Do you think they understand the dynamics of ANY adult relationship? No. They are learning. This is just one small tidbit of information in the VAST amount of data they are processing and converting to information every single day. It's what they're MADE to do. I'm saying give kids some credit, They are more ready and able to handle new information than any adult can... It's what they DO. This is NOTHING to them. They are sponges, taking in and learning tons of stuff every day about the world around them.

I'm sorry. To pick out this one piece of information in the tons they process each day says much more about you than it does about kids.

Saying that this would confuse children is incorrect. If you want to shelter your children from this information about the way the world works, that's fine. But teaching children a fact of life is not what many consider 'confusing' for the child. Once they learn addition, we go and teach them an 'alternative' way of dealing with numbers. It's called subtraction. And as soon as they get that, we throw multiplication at them. Then, just when they start to master that, there's division! How confusing is that to a child?

It's NOT. Not at all. THEY get it. Many adults do not.

And your assertion that gay people are JUST like straight people is for the most part wrong simply because the vast majority of gay people go out of there way purposefully to act differently.

Differently from what? Tell me how gay people act differently from straight people...

Some people think gays are 'advertising' their sexuality by holding hands, kissing or hugging their partner in public. They act as if straight people don't advertise their sexuality by doing the same. I see it all the time: Man and women walking together, gazing into each others' eyes, caressing and kissing. Having their families... Acting all straight...

I'd like to know how gay people act differently...

If something needed to be said to them, explain a gay union...

So. In your opinion, explaining a "gay union" to a kid is going to be new and alternative information, but less confusing than simply stating - we're married and love each other... Yeah, right. I stand by my original assertion. The children are not the ones confused.

/sigh, your arguments are so flawed, I have a hard time deciding where to "dig in". First off, no, I am not more confused than the child, in point of fact, it would seem you are more confused than me, so what exactly does that say about your level of human nature and basic comprehension if that is your assertion?

Yes, children do need to understand the dynamics of a heterosexual relationship because that is where they came from. They want to know why and how they came to be in existence, where baby's come from and why mommy and daddy "special kiss" and why daddy's and mommy's don't special kiss with them.

They want to know when mommy is pregnant again, how she got that way and what it means for the family and how things are going to work out, is the new baby going to be my brother or sister? Is the new baby going to love me? Are you still going to love me when the new baby comes? Your argument about why children should know about men and women and why they shouldn't know about same sex couples is ridiculous at the very best.

Children are informed about there families, gay couples don't have children and therefore do not teach children, nor have the burden of parenting children or shouldering the responsibility of propagating the human race and before you even DARE say that you do, I would submit, that if left up to the gay community, mankind would die out within 100 years. I don't care how or why you reject my morality when it comes to my children. When you can have your own with your "partner" you are then free to educate them in the manner you most see fit.

Also, did you seriously ask me how gay people act differently from straight people in your last post? I almost feel the need to not even take you seriously after that. I want to have a productive conversation but if you are so far lost in fairy tale land, I am not willing to take the journey to come and bring you back. Think about how utterly silly that question is for just a second.

I never said to not hold hands or show affection, no child in the world would question this as children are no stranger to affection, I hug and kiss my sons all the time, they wouldn't even see or view this as different if you did not present it to them as being different and beg there future acceptance by nudging them into some form of thought they should not be having at an early age. Seeing, is not the problem, trying to explain to them the complexities of adult relationships without them caring to know is another story.

Saying that I am incorrect about anything I have said is pure make believe. The only thing that is incorrect is your assumption that you have any right or any say in the development in any child that will never be yours. Should you wish children to be directed in your manner of thinking, I would suggest that you first have one.

And finally, yes. Explaining to them about a gay union would be difficult and that is exactly the point. Explaining the gay culture as it is today, the agenda, the movement is very complicated and so should it be when we explain it to our children. While there is nothing wrong with being gay, it is a complex subject that shouldn't be dumbed down by simply telling our children........ Yeah, two husbands, totally normal. Sorry.... No.

Originally posted by Helious
Yes, children do need to understand the dynamics of a heterosexual relationship because that is where they came from. They want to know why and how they came to be in existence, where baby's come from and why mommy and daddy "special kiss" and why daddy's and mommy's don't special kiss with them.

Do you explain to them how mommy loves oral sex - - just for the pleasure of it?

Or - - do you stop having sex after the children are born.

"Oh - sorry dear. We have procreated. We can stop having sex now".

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Helious
I find this disturbing somehow. Perhaps it is the word married that is used or that the two men identify themselves as both being husbands. I think that is what bothers me.

That is very confusing to a child, much more confusing than it has to be. He is used to husbands and wife's because that is what men and women do, they get married.

Gay couples while I fully support there rights and the right to be joined with all the same laws and privileges that marriage grants two people, it really needs to be called something else. Confusing children is just one of the many problems that is invited when you call it marriage.

edit on 11-7-2011 by Helious because: (no reason given)

I mean really, what's more confusing?

"Son, marriage is between a man and a woman who love each other. Civil union is for when a man and a man or a woman and a woman love each other and decide to make it legal so that they can get treated equally by the state to men and women who get married. They cant get married because there are too many ignorant people in this country who are scared of homosexuality and refuse to accept that a man and a man or a woman and a woman can love each other romantically"

"Dad, whats the difference, though?"

"Nothing, son, other than the name."

The answer is that it does not need to be confusing at all. The gay community seems to be intent on making it so. Children have no business processing gay relationships because it is not relevant in there lives at the time. No child at the age of 6-10 is gay, they don't experience sexual desire and are not attracted to either sex predominantly, we should pre dispose them?

It is hard enough in this day and age to talk to our children about sex without adding in your desperate attempt to force us to teach that your idea is just as valid because you desperately want to be accepted as "normal", you end up looking like the girl in the back of the class wearing all black with all the piercings in her face so she comes across edgy and different when all she really wants is to be accepted by everyone else.

Stop forcing........ Be the person you are, live your life based on the merit of your personality and integrity. Make the world hear you because of what you do and who you touch, because of the difference you make. Do not force the world to identify you because you do not share the same sexual preference and you are crusading to make the rest of the world view you in the same way they do men and women. That is the wrong road and the one the leads to nowhere.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Helious
Yes, children do need to understand the dynamics of a heterosexual relationship because that is where they came from. They want to know why and how they came to be in existence, where baby's come from and why mommy and daddy "special kiss" and why daddy's and mommy's don't special kiss with them.

Do you explain to them how mommy loves oral sex - - just for the pleasure of it?

Or - - do you stop having sex after the children are born.

"Oh - sorry dear. We have procreated. We can stop having sex now".

Honestly, that has to be the most ignorant and poorly thought out post I have read all month. It barely makes sense and is just.......... Yeah, so after we explain where baby's come from, we should then talk about how mommy likes or doesn't like oral sex?

What the hell are you even talking about?

Originally posted by Helious

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Helious
Yes, children do need to understand the dynamics of a heterosexual relationship because that is where they came from. They want to know why and how they came to be in existence, where baby's come from and why mommy and daddy "special kiss" and why daddy's and mommy's don't special kiss with them.

Do you explain to them how mommy loves oral sex - - just for the pleasure of it?

Or - - do you stop having sex after the children are born.

"Oh - sorry dear. We have procreated. We can stop having sex now".

Honestly, that has to be the most ignorant and poorly thought out post I have read all month. It barely makes sense and is just.......... Yeah, so after we explain where baby's come from, we should then talk about how mommy likes or doesn't like oral sex?

What the hell are you even talking about?

uh huh. Love the "how dare you" and trying to push reality off on me.

Answer the question.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Helious

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Helious
Yes, children do need to understand the dynamics of a heterosexual relationship because that is where they came from. They want to know why and how they came to be in existence, where baby's come from and why mommy and daddy "special kiss" and why daddy's and mommy's don't special kiss with them.

Do you explain to them how mommy loves oral sex - - just for the pleasure of it?

Or - - do you stop having sex after the children are born.

"Oh - sorry dear. We have procreated. We can stop having sex now".

Honestly, that has to be the most ignorant and poorly thought out post I have read all month. It barely makes sense and is just.......... Yeah, so after we explain where baby's come from, we should then talk about how mommy likes or doesn't like oral sex?

What the hell are you even talking about?

uh huh. Love the "how dare you" and trying to push reality off on me.

Answer the question.

What question would that be exactly? Why it would be appropriate to talk to children about where babies come from? Why mommy and daddy sleep in the same bed? Why they are going to have a little brother? Or why mommy likes oral sex when she isn't getting knocked up?

Remember, this conversation on topic is about children's perception. They don't have sexual urges at this age beyond accidentally rubbing themselves on something. Are you saying that we should include complex adult emotions and sexual urges into our normal rearing of children?

Originally posted by Helious
They want to know when mommy is pregnant again, how she got that way and what it means for the family and how things are going to work out, is the new baby going to be my brother or sister?

And there are answers for those questions. There are equally valid answers for all the questions they might ask about gay parents. I don't see the problem.

... gay couples don't have children

THEY DO! Gay couples have children. Have you been hiding in a hole? There are straight couples who adopt, and the other kids seem to handle it just fine. Why don't you give your kids a little credit? They aren't stupid.

I would submit, that if left up to the gay community, mankind would die out within 100 years.

Yeah, because straight people would just stop breeding, right? Gay people would turn all the straight people gay and everyone would have a colorful orgy and do ecstasy till they all died! That's one of the stupidest arguments I've seen on this subject. :shk:

I don't care how or why you reject my morality when it comes to my children.

I don't give a good crap about your morality or what you teach your children. Go on and pass on your prejudices. Your kids will have to deal with it when they get older.

Also, did you seriously ask me how gay people act differently from straight people in your last post?

Yes, I did. And you seriously gave no answer, I noticed. If you can't answer it, just say it's a silly question. If you wanted to have a discussion, you'd answer it. It's a real question.

I never said to not hold hands or show affection,

Well, what DID you mean then? How do gay people act differently from straight people???

The only thing that is incorrect is your assumption that you have any right or any say in the development in any child that will never be yours.

And where exactly did I make this assumption? That's right, I didn't. I don't give a damn about your children.

Explaining the gay culture as it is today, the agenda, the movement is very complicated

That's where you are wrong. And that's why I say you are confused. Gay people are no more complex than straight people. But I see that yours is a willful ignorance that you wish to hold onto with every shred of judgment you have about gay people, so carry on. You're going to raise your children to have the same prejudices that you have. And they will likely be even more intolerant than you are. Good luck with that.

reply to post by Helious

Children are informed about there families, gay couples don't have children and therefore do not teach children, nor have the burden of parenting children or shouldering the responsibility of propagating the human race and before you even DARE say that you do, I would submit, that if left up to the gay community, mankind would die out within 100 years

Err... My sister is gay and she and her partner are raising a child with another on the way!!

“Left up to the gay community, mankind would die out within 100 years”??? This is just crazy talk... do you have ANY proof of this?? Just give me one shred of evidence to back up this ridiculous claim!!

For all your talk of having "lots of gay friends" you have some very bigoted views.

You answer most of the points, which people have raised, with pure opinions. However, you express your opinions as if they are hard facts. You seem to have no room for compromise and seem very entrenched in your mindset which leaves me with one conclusion...

Either you don’t have any gay friends, but say you do to somehow try and distance yourself from the word "Homophobe" (a bit like a racist will say "don’t get me wrong i have lots of friends who are ***insert race or colour here*** before going on to insult and generalise that race/colour) or you do have gay friends who merely view you as some kind of outdated joke... someone they tolerate (which would be kind of ironic)

I can clearly see from your posts that you do not view gay people as equals and seem to want to go back to a time when being gay meant that you only come out at night and never spoke about it to non gay people.

Unfortunately arguing with a bigot is often like smashing your head against a brick wall so i am out of this thread and will leave you in peace... However, you have to realise that gay people no longer have to hide in a closet and, due to this, many people on ATS will have gay members of their family’s and/or are openly gay themselves. As such your stance is not only outdated, it is insulting and offensive. You have, in this thread, indirectly insulted members of my family and close friends. Fortunately most of the people I know do not share your views and as such your views do not have too much of an impact on my family. That is the only reason i am able to just laugh this off and move on to the next thread.

Peace.

Originally posted by Helious
What question would that be exactly? Why it would be appropriate to talk to children about where babies come from? Why mommy and daddy sleep in the same bed? Why they are going to have a little brother? Or why mommy likes oral sex when she isn't getting knocked up?

Remember, this conversation on topic is about children's perception. They don't have sexual urges at this age beyond accidentally rubbing themselves on something. Are you saying that we should include complex adult emotions and sexual urges into our normal rearing of children?

Thank you for making my point.

Even if you don't understand you did.

Originally posted by Helious

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Helious
I find this disturbing somehow. Perhaps it is the word married that is used or that the two men identify themselves as both being husbands. I think that is what bothers me.

That is very confusing to a child, much more confusing than it has to be. He is used to husbands and wife's because that is what men and women do, they get married.

Gay couples while I fully support there rights and the right to be joined with all the same laws and privileges that marriage grants two people, it really needs to be called something else. Confusing children is just one of the many problems that is invited when you call it marriage.

edit on 11-7-2011 by Helious because: (no reason given)

I mean really, what's more confusing?

"Son, marriage is between a man and a woman who love each other. Civil union is for when a man and a man or a woman and a woman love each other and decide to make it legal so that they can get treated equally by the state to men and women who get married. They cant get married because there are too many ignorant people in this country who are scared of homosexuality and refuse to accept that a man and a man or a woman and a woman can love each other romantically"

"Dad, whats the difference, though?"

"Nothing, son, other than the name."

The answer is that it does not need to be confusing at all. The gay community seems to be intent on making it so. Children have no business processing gay relationships because it is not relevant in there lives at the time. No child at the age of 6-10 is gay, they don't experience sexual desire and are not attracted to either sex predominantly, we should pre dispose them?

It is hard enough in this day and age to talk to our children about sex without adding in your desperate attempt to force us to teach that your idea is just as valid because you desperately want to be accepted as "normal", you end up looking like the girl in the back of the class wearing all black with all the piercings in her face so she comes across edgy and different when all she really wants is to be accepted by everyone else.

Stop forcing........ Be the person you are, live your life based on the merit of your personality and integrity. Make the world hear you because of what you do and who you touch, because of the difference you make. Do not force the world to identify you because you do not share the same sexual preference and you are crusading to make the rest of the world view you in the same way they do men and women. That is the wrong road and the one the leads to nowhere.

How is it the gay community making it confusing, when it is the hetero community that wishes to create new labels, new ceremonies, and add layers to the idea of love? When it is the hetero community that wishes put a stigma on things. How is it confusing to see love as love?

By your reasoning, no child 6-10 is straight, either, which absolutely blows your claims that children need to know about hetero relationships at that age out of the water.

I dont even know how to address all of your comments here, as they are ignorant and bordering on hatred. Are you really comparing a gay child to a child with social anxiety? Do you really think that the "girl in the back of the class wearing all black with all the piercings in her face so she comes across edgy and different when all she really wants is to be accepted by everyone else" is relevant here in any way? And do you really think that children with social issues only act out or dress a certain way to be accepted? If so, you really, really need to be removed from dealing with children in any capacity, as these types of attitudes are dangerous, lead to bullying, and often suicide.

I find it amazing that you think that YOUR idea on what is right and wrong should be the deciding factor. Homosexuality has been around since before recorded history. It is documented in the animal kingdom quite a bit. But you dont UNDERSTAND, so it must be wrong.

I think there is something else you are missing here too. I am not gay. I am not defending or forcing my lifestyle on anyone. I am simply able to see that just because I feel one way, does not mean I should force others to my point of view, and certainly doesnt mean I should play a part in creating another sad generation of bigots who cannot see people as people, but can only accept what they see as 'normal'.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
I think there is something else you are missing here too. I am not gay.

Yeah, I'm not either, yet the poster has made this assumption about me. Because after all, only gay people would support gay marriage, eh? Well, gay people and Annee.

Case in point, in a response to me:

Originally posted by Helious
I don't care how or why you reject my morality when it comes to my children. When you can have your own with your "partner" you are then free to educate them in the manner you most see fit.
...
Should you wish children to be directed in your manner of thinking, I would suggest that you first have one.

I assume by "partner", he meant my opposite-sex spouse of 20 years, with which I have no children...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
I think there is something else you are missing here too. I am not gay.

Yeah, I'm not either, yet the poster has made this assumption about me. Because after all, only gay people would support gay marriage, eh?

Well, gay people and Annee.

Case in point, in a response to me:

Originally posted by Helious
I don't care how or why you reject my morality when it comes to my children. When you can have your own with your "partner" you are then free to educate them in the manner you most see fit.
...
Should you wish children to be directed in your manner of thinking, I would suggest that you first have one.

I assume by "partner", he meant my opposite-sex spouse of 20 years, with which I have no children...

And I'm sure next we will just be called 'closet gays'.....nevermind the fact that you have a spouse of 20 years and I have one of 7....its just a show, ya know.

I do really love when someone shows their hand as this poster has....doesnt matter how many times they say "i have nothing against gays", when they follow it up with things like "pushing the gay agenda" and "quit trying to push being gay as normal".

I wonder if these people are lying to themselves about their true feelings on homosexuality, or if they are just afraid to show their hate.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Ill just be honest and didn't read past your first quote when you said they would have the same question for gay parents..... No they would not because children don't have gay parents..... I would have liked to have read further but it was not needed after this statement.

Gay parents adopting? Really? No................................................................................................................... Just.................. No.