The Dinosaurs: Bothering scientists since the 1800s

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


I'm just curious, do you also accept that ancient drawings of UFOs, aliens, chimera's and the like are depictions of things they encountered as well?

reply to post by OMsk3ptic


ufo's? it depends. could be anything they saw in the sky. if there was conclusive proof of ufo's/aliens, then i would say that's what they drew.

we know dinosaurs existed, and there exist man-made drawings/carvings of them detailed enough to tell the species. some of the drawings show men with dinosaurs. lets give our ancestors some credit. do you think people all around the world, who didn't have contact with eachother, would draw the same exact types of creatures that they had never seen/known about? and then they actually turn out to be real creatures?!

occam's razor.

Originally posted by taly09
reply to post by Byrd

 

all the examples given to support evolution are all species within the same kind, a dog and a wolf are both canines & an eagle and a falcon are predatory birds. Why dont u tell me of birds turning to lizards or somethin which aint a bird. A dog will never produce a non-dog, there's no proof whatsoever of one kind of animal producin a different kind.

No, there's not. Fortunately, this is not how evolution works. Evolution does not allow for, say, an orangutan to give birth to a duck. That's religion. Totally different subject.

Each organism is a little different from either of its parents; you and i are not clones of our mothers or fathers, are we? Of course not. These changes build up and flow and develop over the generations; It's highly unlikely that any of us resemble our ancestors as recently as five generations ago, barring some, uh, close family relations.

Now you take this amount of change; spurred by the three pressures of natural selection, sexual selection, and genetic drift - and apply it over hundreds of generations.

Your many-times removed descendants will probably still clearly be primates. But maybe they won't very closely resemble your kind of primate. Maybe they'll resemble the famous "grey" aliens or something.

At no point will one of your descendants produce a child that is radically different from themselves; but given enough generations, generation 1 might be extremely different from generation 1,402.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


Actually you have art depictions - such as the ica stones - that show the grotesquely deformed version of dinosaurs often found in children's coloring books. They don't actually resemble any actual dinosaurs at all (and remember, yes, we can tell their bodily structure from skeletal remains; sauropods did not have wobbly bendy necks and tyrannosaurs did not stand straight up)

The reason you have these sort of cartoony, Mickeymousosaurus depictions... is because these "artifacts" are modern fakes, based off pop culture images and inaccurate representations from the 30's and 40's. It's sort of like how people all over hte world have flood myths... after contact with christianity.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by snowen20

 

yes sadly many call fake, but hundreds if not thousands of these depictions have been found all over the world. the second one down in the pictures i linked is a carving in a temple. pretty hard to fake that. maybe the temple is fake, eh? elaborate ruse by creationists

lets see...ahh here's one from peru showing a man WITH a dinosaur. poor wanker.


there are accounts from historians describing dinosaurs. its stupid to take everything else they say as true, then reject something you don't like because it doesn't fit with what you think is true.

dinosaur depictions have been found in the tombs of pharaohs, marco polo said the chinese emperor kept "dragons" to pull his chariots in parades.



but its all just a hoax, right?

some of the inca stones aren't real, but many of them are. there have been thousands upon thousands found by alot of different people. the farmer who admitted to making them did so to avoid a huge jail sentence. see, its very, VERY illegal to sell real artifacts down there, and each sale carries a lengthy jail sentence. so he said he carved them and was passing them off as real.

many of the inca stones have something called "desert varnish" in the carved grooves, which takes hundreds of years to form. no way to fake that.

edit on 7-8-2011 by Bob Sholtz because: (no reason given)

By the way I hope you know I was being sarcastic.
I was actually agreeing with you.

What people seem to forget, or just dont know, is that the large Dinosaur era is only one period in Earths forever changing, pattern of life.

For instance, AFTER the Dinosaur era, came several periods of Giant Mammal occupation of Earth...the MegaFauna.

The Eocene, Oligocene and Miocene from 55 to 5 million years ago, saw the development of HUGE Mammals that roamed the Earth after the great Dinosaur era. Huge Carnivores up to 15 feet long and Huge plant eaters lived in this period. The Indricotherium was a strange cross between a Horse, rhino and ape??, weighed as much as 40 tons, and was up to 40 feet long with a short tail).

Then we had the Pliocene and Pleistiocene eras (5 million yrs ago) where there were strange creatures like the giant wooly Mammoth, the giant wooly rhino, Huge Beavers and sloths, giant cats (sabre tooth), Giant Kangaroos with giant tails 15 ft tall, Mega apes 15 feet tall, huge wombats as big as an Elephant, 15 feet tall Ostriches etc etc.

These arent mythical "Bible" creatures, these creatures lived and died........and so we are today.

No doubt in the future, more exotic wonderous creatures will develop, unless of course Humans dont eat them all, before they have a chance to survive....

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

do you think people all around the world, who didn't have contact with eachother, would draw the same exact types of creatures that they had never seen/known about?

Nope, not unless they existed, assuming (though apparently there is contention) these drawings of dinos are authentic. But the exact same things can be stated of "alien beings" and UFOs as well. All over the world, the same type of pictures of aliens and UFOs were drawn by people who had no contact with each other. The only way to reconcile this is that they all were actually seeing the things they drew. And if your ancient drawings of dinosaurs are legit, then that would be my conclusion for that as well.

reply to post by jjf3rd77

Scientists claim the authors crazy and the Sumerian explanation a myth. But more and more evidence is building up for the case of a preexisting technologically advanced society of either man or alien beings?? What do you think?

I'll be happy to tell you what I think. I have actually had Christians tell me that Dinosaur bones were placed there by Satan to fool everyone into thinking the world was older than 6000 years, and I have read books, and many posts in here that claim the Sumerian's were carving out fiction stories on clay tablets for the enjoyment of modern scientists.

But, you are right, evidence is building up that everything the Ancient Sumerian and Babylonian people recorded is true,and our modern "scientists" are full of it, and have been telling us lies. I think i will go with what the Ancient Ones said.

reply to post by jjf3rd77

Remnants of these massive creatures can only be found in tiny lizards, alligators, crocodiles, and more recently whales.

:bnghd:

It's gonna be one of THOSE threads isn't it.

NO, Dinosaurs did not evolve into whales. NO. Dinosaurs did not evolve into crocodiles or alligators, while it is true that Dinosaurs and Crocodiles share common ancestry. NO. Dinosaurs did not evolve into lizards (it's actually more or less the other way around, early tetrapodal reptiles came first, before Dinosaurs).

Evolution of Reptiles

There is still some debate in science as to whether Dinosaurs should be classified as reptiles.

What do you think?

No. Mammals are warm-blooded thus we didn't need the sunlight to survive. I'm not an expert on mammal evolution but I've never read an article where any scientist claimed there was a problem explaining how mammals managed to survive and become so successful after the mass extinction of the dinosaurs.

Even if there WAS no good explanation currently for how mammals survived that doesn't mean we get to insert aliens, or gods, into those gaps. To do so is fallaciously poor reasoning.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


the inca stones are by no means the only example of this. yes, some of them are fakes, but others are genuine. the earliest reports of inca stones are from 1525! quite a long hoax if you ask me. dinosaurs aren't the only things on them. 1/3 are of a pornographic nature, others show advanced surgery techniques, and another 1/3 show recognizable types of dinosaurs.

desert varnish has formed inside the grooves, which takes hundreds of years of exposure. this confirms that there are real inca stones. tens of thousands have been found. the farmer who found them and started selling them would have had to carve one a day for 40 years to equal the amount that he had. the guy was uneducated! it was either sign a document saying that he carved all the stones, or go to jail for the rest of his life.

some of the stones depict how the continents looked over 13,000,000 years ago from a sky view. that's something we only recently have been able to figure out.
chapmanresearch.org...

good info there.

the evidence for their veracity is astounding.

reply to post by snowen20


haha, yes, i was aware of that.

Originally posted by gort51
What people seem to forget, or just dont know, is that the large Dinosaur era is only one period in Earths forever changing, pattern of life.

For instance, AFTER the Dinosaur era, came several periods of Giant Mammal occupation of Earth...the MegaFauna.

The Eocene, Oligocene and Miocene from 55 to 5 million years ago, saw the development of HUGE Mammals that roamed the Earth after the great Dinosaur era. Huge Carnivores up to 15 feet long and Huge plant eaters lived in this period. The Indricotherium was a strange cross between a Horse, rhino and ape??, weighed as much as 40 tons, and was up to 40 feet long with a short tail).

Then we had the Pliocene and Pleistiocene eras (5 million yrs ago) where there were strange creatures like the giant wooly Mammoth, the giant wooly rhino, Huge Beavers and sloths, giant cats (sabre tooth), Giant Kangaroos with giant tails 15 ft tall, Mega apes 15 feet tall, huge wombats as big as an Elephant, 15 feet tall Ostriches etc etc.

These arent mythical "Bible" creatures, these creatures lived and died........and so we are today.

No doubt in the future, more exotic wonderous creatures will develop, unless of course Humans dont eat them all, before they have a chance to survive....

Thank you for that post. I was wondering when someone would outline the timeline of these eras. It is impossible that humans and dinosaurs interacted. I'm pretty sure that the ancient atmosphere wouldn't accomodate our needs.

On a side note, as to dragons, the Chinese used to take "dragon bones" and grind them up to make healing potions. Many Chinese men and women became rich "finding" these bones. Sometime during the 19th century, western scientist studying these "dragon bone potions" realized that they appeared after earthquakes, and were the bones of creatures from earlier eras, which eras I can't say. But that they were "fossils" so to speak. I believe dinosaur bones would be petrified, and very heard to grind up.

reply to post by OMsk3ptic


the only reason i hesitate with saying the drawings are of aliens is because i'm not 100% sure they exist. they saw something, and they drew it. with the dino's, we know exactly what they were seeing.

chapmanresearch.org...

that link may interest you. it seems the inca stones support the idea of an advanced ancient civilization.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


The Ica stones are a known hoax. While its true that some stones with carvings have been recovered in Peru those depicting "dinosaurs" and advanced technology are widely accepted as hoaxes as an attempt to earn tourist money. The stories of them dating back to the 16th century are true but I've never heard a claim that those that date back to the 16th century have any of the anomalous aspects about them.

So what we have are some legitimate stones none of which show anything out of the ordinary, and some hoax stones, admitted to be a hoax by a farmer who "uncovered them" and then sold them to tourists.

Cabrera stated Basilio Uschuya, a local farmer, brought the stones to his attention after finding them in a cave (Uschuya was later arrested for selling tourists the stones, and told the police he made them himself).[1]

Ica Stones

Or you can believe the Peruvians somehow traveled through a time warp to see dinosaurs, or the future, or aliens ... hmm, which would be more plausible...

reply to post by mileysubet


He's asking for a more logical explanation, not a explanation that will still leave him wondering.

The stories of them dating back to the 16th century are true but I've never heard a claim that those that date back to the 16th century have any of the anomalous aspects about them.

actually the conquistadors brought back stories of strange creature carvings from peru. some of the stones were even brought back to spain around 1570.

So what we have are some legitimate stones none of which show anything out of the ordinary, and some hoax stones, admitted to be a hoax by a farmer who "uncovered them" and then sold them to tourists.

i've already been over this. the farmer was in jail for life, and the only way out was to sign a confession that he made the stones. the farmer has sold around 15,000 of them. it would have taken 40 YEARS making one a day. plus the guy's uneducated.

the inca stones aren't the only depictions of dinosaurs that exist.


this is from egypt.

a painting in australia by the natives.

this is from a totem pole in peru. it was dated 1,600 years old and found in a tomb along with pottery and rugs with similar designs. its on display in the museum of lima.



but deny away

According to the "Lacerta Files":

The fusion of copper with other elements in such a magnetic/radiation field-chamber can produce a force field of special nature that is very useful for various technological tasks. Both species wanted to have the copper of Planet Earth and for this reason they fought a not very long war in space and orbit. The humanoid species seemed to be successful during the first time, but in a last battle the reptilians decided to use a mighty experimental weapon - a special kind of fusion bomb which should destroy the life forms on the planet but should not harm the valuable raw materials and the copper. The bomb was fired from space and detonated at a point of your planet you call "Middle America" today. As it detonated in the ocean, it produced an unpredictable fusion with hydrogen and the effect was much stronger than the reptilians had expected. A deadly radiation, an over-production of fusion-oxygen, a fall-out of different elements and a "nuclear winter" for nearly 200 years were the result. Most of the humanoids were killed and the reptilians lost their interest on the planet after some years for (even for us) unknown reasons - maybe because of the radiation. Planet Earth was on its own again and the animals on the surface died. By the way, one result of the fusion bomb was the fall-out of different elements and materials created in the burning process and one of those materials was Iridium. Your human scientists today see the Iridium concentration in the ground as an evidence for an asteroid impact that killed the dinosaurs.

Following the nuclear winter, the second race were cave-dwellers that eventually evolved and re-surfaced, thier ancestors being dinosaurian.

edit on 8-8-2011 by SystemResistor because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by OMsk3ptic

 

the only reason i hesitate with saying the drawings are of aliens is because i'm not 100% sure they exist. they saw something, and they drew it. with the dino's, we know exactly what they were seeing.

chapmanresearch.org...

that link may interest you. it seems the inca stones support the idea of an advanced ancient civilization.

The advanced civilization of the 1930's in America, yes.

We've seen ancient cultures and how they depict things. We've seen ancient bones. We have ancient bones of people. If dinosaurs and humans existed together, the bones of the dinosaurs and the bones of the humans would be in the same shape -- in other words, we'd have human bones that were turned into stone or we'd have fairly fresh dinosaur bones that could be radiocarbon dated.

I work on dinosaurs, and I can tell you that the "dinosaurs" there are wildly inaccurate -- missing details that should be there or details that could not be there.

reply to post by Byrd


what do you make of all the drawings and carvings showing dinosaurs and humans? almost every culture has depicted them, historians have given accounts.

there are dinosaur bones that have soft tissue inside and collagen/hemoglobin. not just one, but several.

news.nationalgeographic.com...
www.cosmosmagazine.com...

collagen breaks down between 10,000 and 30,000 years.

It is common practice to determine the age of bones by radiocarbon (RC) dating of extracted bone collagen but not of dinosaurs because they are assumed to have become extinct 65 million years BP and, therefore, too old for RC dating. Nonetheless, dinosaur bone apatite had been successfully RC dated in the late 1980's/early 1990's and significant amounts of C-14 were detected and reported.

When it was learned in 2005 that Triceratops and Hadrosaur femur bones in excellent condition were discovered by the Glendive (MT) Dinosaur & Fossil Museum, Hugh Miller asked and received permission to saw them in half and collect samples for C-14 testing of any bone collagen that might be extracted. Indeed both bones contained collagen and conventional dates of 30,890 ± 380 radiocarbon years (RC) for the Triceratops and 23,170 ±170 RC years for the Hadrosaur

www.sciencevsevolution.org...

the evidence is all there.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

on top of all the depictions found, i don't see how anyone could deny that humans and dinosaurs lived together.

Holy crap! I've never heard of any of this before. Very intriguing.....

I can't imagine being a human living among dinosaurs. That is too wild to imagine. Life would certainly have been a bit more exciting. LOL