Warning after warning..I smell propaganda!

Here's another solution also, quit belly-aching, whinning, and crying, grab a tissue, wipe away the tears...grow some and then deal with it, eh?


seekerof

'southern comfort'

I would say do the same, but we all have equal opportunity to be here. I am stating my opinion, not pasting a news story.

I read and watch the news too. Perhaps if you finished snooping through the rest of my posts, you'd realize that. But that's okay. I welcome your suggestions, now welcome mine.

I, personally, am not taking is personal. However you say yourself if you we don't like what you say, don't read it. Don't you think you are contraditcing yourself when you should be doing the exact same thing?

Don't READ IT

Whining eh? What do you call your post? I started a thread because I wanted feed back, not a junior high bitch fest

Originally posted by amber83
'southern comfort'

I would say do the same, but we all have equal opportunity to be here. I am stating my opinion, not pasting a news story.

I read and watch the news too. Perhaps if you finished snooping through the rest of my posts, you'd realize that. But that's okay. I welcome your suggestions, now welcome mine.

I am not disputing your right to be here no state your opinion. I am simply advising you not to do something that you don't want to do.

Let me ask you something. Why would you want to come to a place that talks about terror attacks and horrible things in the news that is just government propoganda? Why would you care? Why would you waste your time being in a place where things are posted that you don't want to read?

If you noticed on the ATSNN, news is not "PASTED". It is reported by our members. ONE paragraph of the referenced news site or station is pasted into the news story. Just one. I just wanted to clarify for you that those who submit stories to this site actually work to do it.

Something else I was wondering. How many of you, who think this is just government propaganda and don't think all these terror alerts should be announced, will be sitting right there at your computers on this site reading the news when we are attacked or another country is attacked? Because ATS is the best news source that you can find. It has news from EVERYWHERE, not just America.

for it to be feasible, we have to pretend that the current campaign underway by terror groups is a fairy tail. I don't believ it is and here's why.

For the Whitehouse to pull it off, they'd have to have complete cooperation from everyone on the inside. For every one of you who hate Bush, there are 10 at the government level waiting for him to screw up...to the point that many simply get tired of waiting and invent things. The same was true with Clinton.

I've had first hand interaction with militant Islamist and they do mean to convert us...even if it kills us and preferably so.

Now, I thinks its totally acceptable to not trust the government, and if fact, I recommend it..especially with your money. However, I don't think its wise to dismiss a real and tangible threat just because your adversary also opposes it. You all can claim you don't but you slip and let it show. Look, none of us wants there to be an Alqaida..but there is and pretending theres not to disagree with Bush is pityful. Is Bush an honest man? Hardly..and neither is anyone else in politics for that matter. But writing off a threat that is viable and proven because you don't agree with him is foolhardy at best and down right dangerous at worst.

We have these warnings because 3 years ago, we had no warning. We cannot leave it soley in the incapable hands of a government who cannot even communicate effectively throughout it ranks to stop these attacks. This country belongs to the people but nothing is ever free.

Make no mistake, the threat of islamic terrorist is real and its like nothing the world has ever faced. ever.

Exactly astro

You can pretend the threat isn't there, but in reality, It is.

so... you question the legitimacy of our homeland security's terror alert warning system, ehh?

well... FREEZE... DUCK AND COVER... WE ARE NOW UNDER ORANGE ALERT. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM ALL DISSENTING REMARKS.

forgive me if this was discussed, but the FDA today announced drugs imported from canada are a terrorism risk, and yesterday kerry said bush and the pharm co's were against competition by banning the drugs....hmmmmm

Here you go amber83, check THIS SITE out. Did you say concentration camps?

amber83-
hope ya don't live in oregon... posting such an unpatriotic, terrorist-loving thread (sarcasm)...

you could do prison time if this bill passes...

www.leg.state.or.us...

this has probably been posted here before, but bein' new to tha board, here it is again.

i especially like the language stating:
"A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person knowingly plans, participates in or carries out any act that is intended, by at least one of its participants, to disrupt:
(a) The free and orderly assembly of the inhabitants of the State of Oregon;
(b) Commerce or the transportation systems of the State of Oregon;"

so, in other words, if ONE PERSON of your group blocks public access (part a) or a state highway (part b)... YOU'RE A TERRORIST! (punishable by imprisonment... up to LIFE!)

-----

"Look what's happening out in the streets
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Hey I'm dancing down the streets
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Ain't it amazing all the people I meet
Got a revolution Got to revolution
One generation got old
One generation got soul
This generation got no destination to hold
Pick up the cry
Hey now it's time for you and me
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Come on now we're marching to the sea
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Who will take it from you
We will and who are we
We are volunteers of America"

-Jefferson Airplane, "Volunteers"






[edit on 12-8-2004 by redalert]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by mpeake
I think the gov't is in a WIN WIN situation.

No, it's definately a no win situation.

I would like to ask you and amber what do you think the gov. should do?

If there's a bomb threat to a building, what do they do? They immediately evacuate taking no chances, then they determine whether it was legit or not. The warnings are no different. If the warn and warn and warn and nothing happens, then great. I quess the warnings are to protect the gov. from lawsuits or whatever. Because if they warn and warn and warn and something does happen, they can say We warned you and it was up to you to heed the warnings.

They don't warn and something happens, they get blamed for not warning.
If they warn too much, then we have people threads like this claiming propaganda.
Definately a no win situation.

It's a no win situation for you, me, the rest of the general public. But it's a win win for Big Government (and I don't mean just Bush and Co). Like you said, if a building gets bombed and there is no warning issued, and people die in the thousands, the masses will be furious. Then the gov't can tighten their grip on us even more. Create new laws, new "terror task forces", new terror depts. All will have little to no effect on actually stopping terrorism, but will give more control to the gov't in your daily lives.

If they do issue a warning, and the attack is averted, then they still win. This is what I mean by they are in a win win situation.

Do you think that we will ever win the war on terror, or that terrorism will ever stop on such a large scale? Probably not, but let's say that it does. The gov't will have such a firm hold on us, our freedoms, our daily liberties that it will be too late to go back to the way we were before the terrorism was on such a large scale.

These terrorist are real threats, there's no denying that. But they are not going to fall under the checks and balances that the new anti terrorist acts enforce. They do not fight us with conventional tactics. So as I said before, thre is no real solution that we can do on the general public level. And I'm not complaining either (well, maybe a little, but I'm allowed to). I'm just giving my opinion and that's it.

Sure, what the Government is spewing is a bunch of propaganda to keep the masses in the threat of a possible terror attack. As for 9/11, I think in that case the Government stayed quiet so as to allow as many people to get hit in those buildings. As I have read, there were some people who warned not to go to work that day on 9/11.

The terror threat warning is an indication of how much propaganda you will be getting. That level meter system is what I'm talking about.

It is up to the person viewing the propaganda to discern the motives on the news.

Originally posted by mpeake
These terrorist are real threats, there's no denying that.

Ok, so you admit that there really are terrorist who threaten us. Now, back to my question. What do you think the government should do?
We recieve a very credible threat.
Since warning the people would be propaganda should they just keep quiet and hope for the best?

No way!

You're doubting that your government is giving you accurate information about these terror threats?

Haven't they demonstrated to you their capabilities by:

1) Halting 9-11.

Oh, wait a sec.

2) Finding Saddam's WMD stockpiles.

Oh, hehe, that one too.

3) Finding Osama bin Laden.

Well dang.


At this point, the US government has lied and lied and lied so often, that to believe them about a terror warning is pretty much a character flaw.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by mpeake
These terrorist are real threats, there's no denying that.

Ok, so you admit that there really are terrorist who threaten us. Now, back to my question. What do you think the government should do?
We recieve a very credible threat.
Since warning the people would be propaganda should they just keep quiet and hope for the best?

Since I'll never know which threats are credible and which are not, I guess I'll never have a solution on how to fix it. All I can do is live my life, and like you said hope for the best. When I see a terror threat, I can't do anything about it. They are non-specific in their nature. They offer no solution in themselves. They are meant to keep people on edge, in fear, and under control. Since 9-11 there have been no real terrorist attacks. I don't know if it's because the terror threats have averted them or not, but I think it has more to do with the terrorist waiting patiently for another huge opportunity (they are not on a time schedule and have no deadlines to meet).

Here's a question. Say you live in NYC, and you hear that there are possible terror threats in you area, say for all the federal buildings. Now let's say that the people are still allowed to go to work as normal. Do you go? If so, why? You just rec'd a "valid" warning that there is terrorism on the way. If you do go, then you are living your life just as you would have if you had not heard the warnings, except your fear is hightened.

I can't say that we should take away the threat level color codes (which are useless IMO), or not issue the warnings, because the masses feel comfort that the gov't is "protecting them". When in actuallity, the gov't is slowly tightening it's grip on a sleeping public. Nothing we can do about it either. I guess that's the answer you were looking for? There is no answer. We have to take it cause we are living it. But we don't have to live it in a lie.

I seems to me that the "people are living in fear" "all our rights are being taken away" posts are being overstated.
I mean really, besides the conspiricists and rural nutjobs, who's really afraid? I see alot of people on a daily basis....I'm just not detecting that fear that you all say they have.

Not in the faces of everyone that works around here, not the tourists, not the people around the White House (you can almost see the White House from my building, stupid other buildings blocking the view).

As far as our rights being stripped. Well, when the level goes orange, a couple streets around here may get blocked off...so I guess our right to go down that street is taken away, other than that....maybe I'm missing out on my rights being taken.

"But what about the Patriot Act??"
Well, despite what you may read on the internet, they don't just have a list of names and start picking names at random to arrest and further survey. I say further because they've been watching some of these people for years. I know, I know....it's a big shock that they actually have reasons for taking these people in. Unfortunately(?) the public doesn't (and I guess shouldn't) know everything and will never know everything.

"But that's what RATS is for"
Once people's minds are made up, rarely do they change no matter how much evidence is presented to them. (see 9/11 threads)

Perhaps you ought to reread the patriot act.

Say for example you were driving on a highway going to visit a cousin. Say at the very same time, a suspected terrorist was on that highway too, and they are tracking he/she. So they're checking gas stations for credit card reciepts because they have "reason to believe" and they come across your information and you seem to be following the same route as a terrorist. Now, all they have to do is tell a judge you're a possible terrorist and all of your information is looked at. Bank account information, background information...and they can arrest you just because you 'might' be a terrorist. I'd say that's more than a few streets being blocked off eh? Now I don't have anything to hide, and I'm sure they've already looked at it anyway due to my occupation, but what really is underlying here is that one wrong move, one INNOCENT move...and suddenly you're a suspected terrorist! it's a Salem Witch Trial...it's reminiscent of Orson Well's '1984' and it gets more powerful all the time.

I work in a highly secure building, and I hear about threats all the time. Does that mean I say...OH MY GOD there's a yellow terrorist alert! I better not go to work! No....because if I let that rule my life, then with or without an attack, that terrorist ulitmatly wins. Their goal is to inflict terror - to disrupt our lives and way of life, and to make us run back into the dark ages. I refuse to live that way, and that is the fear I am talking about when I said "all these scared people."

As far as my problem with beliving 9/11 wasn't Gov't assisted...is that here we are, three years later and still hearing about it everyday, hearing and seeing the terror warnings. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be insanely pissed off about the deaths of those innocent people. My point is...3 years and countless warnings, yet nothing ever happens. But 3 years ago they were able to get in country years before hand, mastermind one of the hardest and biggest attacks to US soil, and nobody knew about it? That's where I say...wait a minute. A giant, elaborate scheme like that would have to have been known about... otherwise we need to take a damn good look at the CIA/FBI and whatever else we have. If the Gov't didn't do it, they stood by knowing what was going to happen and that makes them just as guilty.

And for those griping at me for a solution -- your guess is as good as mine. I'm just here to talk about what I think. But in time, I think the solution will present itself. Time answers just about any question.

You bet your boots its propaganda!

Originally posted by amber83
I work in a highly secure building, and I hear about threats all the time. Does that mean I say...OH MY GOD there's a yellow terrorist alert! I better not go to work! No....because if I let that rule my life, then with or without an attack, that terrorist ulitmatly wins. Their goal is to inflict terror - to disrupt our lives and way of life, and to make us run back into the dark ages. I refuse to live that way

Same here, and just about everyone else I know feels the same way, so...again if we recieve a threat then why not inform the public? Is it not better to know?

As far as my problem with beliving 9/11 wasn't Gov't assisted........A giant, elaborate scheme like that would have to have been known about... otherwise we need to take a damn good look at the CIA/FBI and whatever else we have. If the Gov't didn't do it, they stood by knowing what was going to happen and that makes them just as guilty.

This is a big country. It's impossible to keep track of what everyone is doing and where everyone is (just look at the Mexican border). It is very possible to plan something like 9/11 and get away with it. Bank robbers plan their robbery all the time, 9/11 wasn't much different...just on a bigger scale.
And whose gov. assisted with 9/11? Clinton's or Bush's new and not yet complete or just the Gov. in general?
And more importantly why would the gov. do that?
"to control the people of course"
Ok, say you finally are able to control the people. The constitution is no longer, the government has somehow managed to quell the millions upon millions who would riot and war against the taking away of our rights. This would take years, and leave the country in a mess. But they finally are in control. Now what?
Broke, war weary, and hated...what does the government gain now that it has complete control?