Headless corpses? Acid baths? This is a distorted picture of Mexico's drug wars

reply to post by NightGypsy


I agree with Light Assassin's summation:

Mexico's drug wars. More like the US Governments war to control the Mexican drug trade.

And I also think the US is attempting to exploit some weaknessess they are creating all the while. I hate to think Calderón is all that naive, or worse, that he is willing to sell out his country to US interests especially now, Mexico is in a good position to develop more positively economically in the coming years not being over-inflated like its northern neighbors.

There is one drug policy change that can be made. I hope I don't flush this whole thread by saying it but cannabis has to be treated differently from here on out. It may be too little, too late but it is still a major part of Mexican drug trade and sure to take a big bite out of the cartels' income. A total end to prohibition is where this really needs to go, at least to let each country practice their own policies in that regard, and not be under a global control of policy. that could happen as the US is becoming feeble and can no longer hold sway over global policies as before.

If there were an honest intent to cripple the cartels by means of prohibition enforcement it would be necessary to battle by attrition taking out the soldiers as massively as possible. That would weaken the cartels and discourage others to get involved, also cripple the cartels' effectiveness to conduct business. Instead they have been going after the heads of the cartels which only has the effect of de-stabilizing the business as the lieutenants step up to take over and battle for new turf of their de-stabilized competitors. It is primarily these efforts that promote the violence we see, and is an opening for a major foreign power to step-in to "help" as they are so famous for doing.

There are just too many unspoken agendas with contingency plans at work. I do believe Mexico's leadership has been duped as the PAN party was just too anxious to play the game after the PRI party is out of control after over 70 years of complete power. I believe all this is becoming too obvious to everyone down here and PRI looks very well-placed to re-assume power after next elections. The Mexican people have no trouble at all acknowledging their government and politicians are corrupt, unlike up north whose citizens still want to think the best of their leaders. The Mexican people do not expect much from their leaders, but do expect a certain amount of stability.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


i understand what you mean about the canabis OP,im a mexican american who grew up in a bad neighborhood.I know how important the weed trade is to cartels.If it were to be tolerated a bit more in the states the cartels would lose their number 1 source of money and most of their followers..Right now they are producing unbelievable amounts of crystal meth,if they cant be stopped immediately mexico will be doomed,and the meth infection will begin to destroy america,that i can guarantee.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


I fear the drug cartels the Mexican government DO crack down on are the ones not under control of the US Govt, and Most figureheads that have dealings with US Politics are probably puppets for the US. Just like democracy. It's an illusion.

In terms of legalising Marijuana, I agree, but the issue is IF abused, it can lead to Psychosis, so there needs to be an established culture, such as the American Indians use of Peyote, and proper teachings about it, along with the spiritual side, to use the substance.

I live in Adelaide, Australia, and enjoy relaxing with my partner and Mary Jane after work. It is incredibly easy to get your hands on, it is cheap to buy, and the government gives you a slap on the wrist if you are caught growing your own personal plant, or possessing a small amount.

if you think about it the U.S is responsible for the zetas.Its original members were elite soldiers trained by us army commandos.Now those commando skills are bieng taught to low lifes and gang members who are responsible for the kidnappings and killings

reply to post by Erongaricuaro

And I also think the US is attempting to exploit some weaknessess they are creating all the while. I hate to think Calderón is all that naive, or worse, that he is willing to sell out his country to US interests especially now, Mexico is in a good position to develop more positively economically in the coming years not being over-inflated like its northern neighbors.

Erongaricuaro, I agree with you. Many in the U.S. are not aware of how deeply the U.S. govt. (CIA) is connected in this scenario. When I talk to people about it, there will be many who don't believe it, and the rest will concede that it's possible that a small number of govt. officials are involved. I think the U.S. is deeply entrenched in this situation and suspect that is why so little is ever done to secure the borders and deal with illegal immigrants.

It is very hard to know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are, but I know one thing, the U.S. has failed to address this situation on any meaningful level and I don't think that's an oversight. I'm still in disbelief that there hasn't been more of an outcry from the Mexican government over this Operation Fast and Furious debacle, or perhaps there has and we just aren't hearing about it in the mainstream media. I believe several U.S. officials should have to answer to Americans as well as the people of Mexico for this fiasco. Justice seems elusive these days when it comes to corruption in America, however.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro
Actually, the article is essentially an argument for decriminalization.

"Narco-cartels are not pastiches of global corporations, nor are they errant bastards of the global economy - they are pioneers of it," says Vulliamy. He's right; but it is precisely their illegality which produces the egregious violence, which is why legalisation – de jure or de facto – makes sense. Capitalism does not work in a lawless state of nature; it needs rules, order and predictability. The North American Free Trade Agreement and the northern-border maquilas (in-bond manufacturing plants) are illustrations. In this sense, Juárez does exemplify globalisation (as do many other – much more peaceful – Mexico cities). But the maquilas – which boomed in the 1990s – are not the cause of recent narco-violence.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Fact is, the U.S.A. already produces enough and better quality cannabis to supply its population. It is the largest cash crop of several states, and could be quickly and easily commercialized. Eliminate the need for "imports" and the cartels lose their largest market.

Then, we can work on regulation of coca products and amphetamines. No market, no cartels.

jw

Originally posted by NightGypsy

I think the U.S. is deeply entrenched in this situation and suspect that is why so little is ever done to secure the borders and deal with illegal immigrants.

I'm still in disbelief that there hasn't been more of an outcry from the Mexican government over this Operation Fast and Furious debacle, or perhaps there has and we just aren't hearing about it in the mainstream media.

I haven't heard much on Fast and Furious in the media lately but I believe it was mentioned in this thread that Mexico is calling to prosecute those in the US that are responsible. Some 3,000 assault rifles does make a difference in what the Mexican government has to battle against. That supposed "sting" probably could have been carried out with the sale of 30 weapons and possibly been effective, if that was really the intent. Selling one hundred times that many might make the average person like myself suspicion there was more to it than that cover story about the sting.

As regards the border in illegal immigrants I believe it is fully within the scope of the US's power to be as affirmative as Mexico is about immigrations. People here in Mexico do not work regular jobs nor receive benefits from the government if they are not legal immigrants, period. People can find ways of crossing the border if that is their intent, but if they cannot make a livlihood they will not stay. A handful can perhaps make it in an informal economy but not the numbers the US complains of.

The American people do not want illegal immigrants competing for jobs or lowering wages, nor do they wish to support the families of the illegal immigrants, it is a big political issue. But America's corporate leaders see a big benefit by having those workers there as it also helps keep wages for American citizens down by having workers willing to work for less. There is always a lot of political posturing on the issue but everyone knows the border is as tight as a sieve, too easy to penetrate. Then once inside the US those workers are welcome and easily find work and can maintain a living. At the same time they are illegal so have to keep a low profile, not step out of line, and are easily manipulated by their employers. They are desireable employees for many reasons. It is all about as above-board as the drug trade, top-level people are complicit.

It might be fair to mention that not all illegal immigrants are "Mexican" as many are from the Central American countries but pass themselves off as Mexican because for one immigrations treats them differently, and if deported they get sent to Mexico where it is close and easy to get back across the border again. Very few people check immigrations status of Asians and others, of which there are many, many illegals. And one would be very surprised to find how many illegal Canadians are working in the US, and they almost never get checked.

The US has had its eye on Mexico since the Pilgrims arrived at Plymouth. The Spaniards did get the better real estate by being first. Propoganda says you should be suspect of everything Mexican and that it would be doing these people a favor if the US went in and took it over, by force if necessary. Most Americans would be very surprised to learn some truths about Mexico, it is the largest most technologically advanced Spanish-speaking country, and the level of technology in use in the larger cities would shock Americans making them wonder why their country suddenly seems rather backwards. That is the truth.

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

Headless corpses? Acid baths? This is a distorted picture of Mexico's drug wars

No. Its real.

OP, I agree with your assessment.

And I enjoy your threads about Mexico. It's good to have someone's opinion/viewpoint who is actually living in the area in question.

Keep posting the interesting threads and stay safe down there.

Originally posted by RRokkyy

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

Headless corpses? Acid baths? This is a distorted picture of Mexico's drug wars

No. Its real.

By that logic one would be correct in saying attending high school in the US is a bloodbath with mass shootings, blood, injuries, and fatalities. It's true, it has happened, but that would be a distorted view of everyone's high school experience.

It would appear by the number of stars you've garnered, as many as the words in your comment, that it is a popular sentiment. The media has done its job well then.

i just leave the evidence...

but be warned, very graphic and NSFW...but heres the truth, the article in OP is pure PR...

www.blogdelnarco.com...

example:
www.blogdelnarco.com...

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


The reason sensationalism is huge in media is because without it, no one listens. Without it no one cares. People talk like they care and want to know, but if PBS has a breaking story about scandals who really watches?

Who can demand more information from the media? People of course.Do they? Not really, most just complain on some forum somewhere.

reply to post by DarkSarcasm


Plus most of what we see as representing mexico are the illegal aliens. You must admit they are not exactly good ambassadors for your country.

The illegal aliens seem to be a hard working and honest bunch by and large.Desperate to make a living and support their families search for a better life.
Whats so horrible bout that?
The drug problem is created for the benefit of those higher up in the food chain.
Simple cannabis is virtually harmless.
The only exception being that it shouldnt be indulged in heavily by those under school age.
For most others its an enjoyable harmless recreation.
The illegality of cannabis stems from the Du pont invention of Nylon.
Their son in law, Harry J Anslinger initiated the whole war against cannabis to get rid of hemp production and bring in use of nylon.
This garnered billions of dollars for dupont.
As well as creating a market that could be exploited by big money and big crime which have always worked hand in glove to fleece the public.
What i wouldnt give for a few seeds of good old michoacan hootch....in the top five of all the smoke ive had over forty odd years.
This stuff alone could bring in money that they badly need down there for the people.
legalise it and be done with.
It will concentrate the police efforts on the violent criminal enterprise.

Originally posted by Hessdalen
i just leave the evidence...

but be warned, very graphic and NSFW...but heres the truth, the article in OP is pure PR...

www.blogdelnarco.com...

example:
www.blogdelnarco.com...

edit on 7-7-2011 by Hessdalen because: mindcontrol

Nice photos, I've seen worse. I almost starred you for the graphics but I read what you are saying so I'll withhold that. Nice job reading the headline but you miss the point, I believe. Not uncommon, we have that type here too.

"The evidence," thanks for the chuckle. No one says this didn't happen, doesn't happen, or won't happen more in the future. The Mexican media doesn't hide it, in fact they make it known in all its graphic glory. I suppose to be fair we should be showing some dead bodies found in the US, but they keep the colorful stuff out of the press. Sanitized for your protection - remove before dumping.

So to counter my statement, then what you are saying is that the Columbine High School shooting incident IS representative of the US high school experience?? There were others like that also.

If you are goulish by nature and plan a trip to Mexico in hopes of seeing some really gory stuff then I'm afraid you are going to be disappointed. Of course if you plan carefully and be patient a bit you might take a trip to Juarez, hang out all night in some bad colonias for a couple of weeks, make sure you check all the dumptsters and such, then you might get lucky. Heck, you might even become part of the entertainment.

I can't even remember when the last time I walked out of my house and tripped over a dead body. Hell, never. And I live in Michoacán!

So congratulations, the media's got you blitzed. You are just another in a long line of folks that are convinced this is how we live and what we live with here in Mexico. Truth is, you would probably never see it even if you were to come here looking for it. Thanks for playing though. Enjoy!

Well, this has turned out to be one of those days. Looks like I may have been wrong about the political strategy about Mexico's Drug War, or at least that the opposition didn't buy the deal. There are details still not fully confirmed yet and they are saying on the big news stations only 4 confirmed deaths - of the narcos, of course - so if this other report has any merit with its unusually high body count it is the military that is playing it down.

An attack on the governor's mansion, some street shoot-outs, a number of road blockades with cars, trucks, and buses burned. this is throughout the state of Michoacán and not just my city. Of course I didn't hear or see a thing and was out and about the whole day. Interesting photos, story in Spanish though. Check it out: www.blogdelnarco.com...

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

Originally posted by RRokkyy

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

Headless corpses? Acid baths? This is a distorted picture of Mexico's drug wars

No. Its real.

By that logic one would be correct in saying attending high school in the US is a bloodbath with mass shootings, blood, injuries, and fatalities. It's true, it has happened, but that would be a distorted view of everyone's high school experience.

It would appear by the number of stars you've garnered, as many as the words in your comment, that it is a popular sentiment. The media has done its job well then.

I grew up in a white Protestant, Jewish suburb on Long Island in the 50s and 60s. I dont recall any murders.
I recall a little girl getting run over by a bus, someone breaking their neck diving into a swimming pool, maybe
someone getting killed in a motorcycle accident.

The level of violence in Mexico or South America is positively frightening.

The government violence and guilty until proven innocent justice system, down there is also frightening.

Its a third world nightmare and its moving north.

The police corruption alone in Ciudad Juarez alone is enough to make heads roll and acid baths a reality. Just because the sun is shining where you're standing doesn't make it shine somewhere else.

You should watch the movie "Backyard" and it's completely in Spanish so the American mainstream media does not apply. Plus don't tell me this stuff does not happen on the border, I have personally watched a man getting beat to a bloody pulp in the Rio Grande by police.

Pointing fingers at the US for it's drug war and drug demand is hypocritical, it takes two to tango.

I could just as easily say the cartels are influencing fed. government to crack down on states medical cannabis programs. Now, the ball is in your court, no?

Either way, it's pure assumption and just a naive attempt to take responsibility away from where it lies.

If Mexico was so great, why are it's people leaving in droves to live in the US illegally--many UNABLE to find work and fend for themselves.

Eventually, you'll have to bite the bullet and admit negative aspects about your country.

To me, you seem myopic and chauvinistic (primary meaning intended).

Originally posted by RRokkyy

I grew up in a white Protestant, Jewish suburb on Long Island in the 50s and 60s. I dont recall any murders.
I recall a little girl getting run over by a bus, someone breaking their neck diving into a swimming pool, maybe
someone getting killed in a motorcycle accident.

You're right then, violence doesn't occur in the US. Wouldn't that also be a somewhat distorted view of 21st century America?

Not quoted in this post but you mention our violence is spreading north. What would you propose as a solution to that? I might suggest the US practice a real immigrations policy, one in keeping with the will of its citizens rather than that of its corporate leaders that keep the back door open for cheap labor. It would not be that difficult to achieve if there really was a will to do so.

And I really would suggest you and the other responders after you take the time to actually read some of these posts. You might find something in them that supports your argument - my post just above yours for instance. www.abovetopsecret.com... - a link if you are too lazy to scroll up. All hell broke loose in my state today. Really nifty photos if you follow the new link in that post.

You could be throwing some of that at me to further your point. The fact that you and the subsequent contributers to this thread failed to do so tells me that none of you pay attention to anything I might be saying unless it is a direct reply to your oh-so-eloquent minimal post. Your minds are made up already. Here is a hint - I have been agreeing with the news item this thread is based on saying that the entire country of Mexico is not like what is happening in Juarez, yet today it was, at least right here in my own town. Even though I was out and about town all day I still didn't see or hear a thing until I read the news. Click on the link and see for yourselves. It would improve your arguments.

Not sure why you bother to reply if you don't bother to read the thread. Actually, I am sure why.

Until you do then I will be content to assume your Long Island hometown is just like Detroit.