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Originally posted by novastrike81
reply to post by Rustami
So Jesus suffered because it says Jesus suffered, and that somehow makes him the Messiah? Can you show me something other then NT scripture that backs this up?
So I came to Jerusalem, and was there three days. And I arose in the night, I and some few men with me; neither told I any man what my God had put in my heart to do at Jerusalem: neither was there any beast with me, save the beast that I rode upon..Then I went on to the gate of the fountain, and to the king's pool: but there was no place for the beast that was under me to pass.
Nehemiah2
O earth, cover not thou my blood, and let my cry have no place. Also now, behold, my witness is in heaven, and my record is on high.
Job16
“Oh, that my words were written!
Oh, that they were inscribed in a book!
That they were engraved on a rock
With an iron pen and lead, forever!
For I know that my Redeemer lives,
And He shall stand at last on the earth;
And after my skin is destroyed, this I know,
That in my flesh I shall see God,
Whom I shall see for myself,
And my eyes shall behold, and not another.
Job19
And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel
Isaiah8
Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength?
63
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
9
“ The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little child shall lead them.
11
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
42
He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son.
2Samuel7
Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry
Psalm2
Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
Exodus23
Originally posted by ExistentialNightmare
Name a moral act that could be carried out by a believer (person with faith); that could not be carried out by a non-believer (person without faith in god)
What about immoral acts? It's not hard to think of examples whereby immoral acts are carried out by someone who thinks they have a "divine" warrant, by someone who thinks they have Holy permission.edit on 6-7-2011 by ExistentialNightmare because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by XplanetX
Originally posted by ExistentialNightmare
Name a moral act that could be carried out by a believer (person with faith); that could not be carried out by a non-believer (person without faith in god)
What about immoral acts? It's not hard to think of examples whereby immoral acts are carried out by someone who thinks they have a "divine" warrant, by someone who thinks they have Holy permission.edit on 6-7-2011 by ExistentialNightmare because: (no reason given)
There is not a single moral act that distinguishes one man/woman from another.
ISA 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
On the flip side, there is one immoral act that does distinguish itself from all others.
MK 3:28 I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
HEB 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
2PE 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud."
Originally posted by bogomil
Originally posted by XplanetX
Originally posted by ExistentialNightmare
Name a moral act that could be carried out by a believer (person with faith); that could not be carried out by a non-believer (person without faith in god)
What about immoral acts? It's not hard to think of examples whereby immoral acts are carried out by someone who thinks they have a "divine" warrant, by someone who thinks they have Holy permission.edit on 6-7-2011 by ExistentialNightmare because: (no reason given)
There is not a single moral act that distinguishes one man/woman from another.
ISA 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
On the flip side, there is one immoral act that does distinguish itself from all others.
MK 3:28 I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
HEB 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
2PE 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud."
I will repeat a post I wrote at the start of this thread:
["I'm afraid, that believers soon will be claiming, that 'moral' only can be defined correctly on THEIR premises.
It would thus be 'immoral' to deny a blood-sacrifice craving 'god' his number of slaughtered animals, children and virgins (remember that the OT 'god' actually wanted blood sprinkled in his temple), just as it's 'immoral' to deny whatever insane sexual norms some contemporary christians try to impose on mankind.
It shall be fun to see the theist semantic dodgings once again, when they turn up."]
You are, as is common amongst elitist christians, relying on circle-arguments. In this case one level upgraded, by using your own tailored premises as an argument.
Isaiah goes on to say, two verses later:
There is not a single moral act that distinguishes one man/woman from another.
ISA 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away
You are quoting from Isaiah 55 talking about the lord calling all the people of the world to ". . .abandon their lifestyle
Is it circular because I believe the bible is the truth and I am convinced of Jesus' teachings?
If so, then I am guilty. I believe that his ways are higher than my ways.
MK 7:20 He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him `unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man `unclean.' "
Originally posted by bogomil
Generally and as a principle, egalitarian secular law handles this better for society as a whole.
Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
Originally posted by bogomil
Generally and as a principle, egalitarian secular law handles this better for society as a whole.
Please explain what these laws are and provide an example of where this law is effective.
Originally posted by bogomil
basic political philosophy. I would have believed everybody to be familiar with it.
Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
Originally posted by bogomil
basic political philosophy. I would have believed everybody to be familiar with it.
Ahhh man, I thought you were talking about some "real laws". All your talking is philosophy, so I guess what your saying is that we should exchange all religions and laws to those that only come from a philosophical stand point . Like I've always said, it will never happen.