God is GOOD and I will defend Him. A Challenge for Atheists , page 14

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 03:18 PM

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God gave you the territory. The map is what you see. God sees the entire territory and created it with His law. It operates by the law of returns. When you choose to take from the universe, it takes back in multiples. If you give to the universe, it gives back in multiples. If you love God and/or others, He loves you in multiples because this is the law of the universe. If you take from God or others, you get taken over and over again. Take a look at a homeless man begging for money on the road. Does he smoke? Without exception. Does he drink and do drugs. Likely. Did he take from life without giving enough to get a return. YES. God has already done His part.

Why do bad returns come to good people? We can question this according to the law of returns, but this requires duplicity on our part.

Duplicity says that I am good so I can get a reward. It says that I am good so that I can avoid punishment. God is not in the business to feed our pride. Duplicity is present where there is pride. If we want to attach ourselves to good, we do it as its own reward. God does the same. God is not prideful or duplicitous. He does what is good for its own sake. His only desire is for our good. This requires His providence. We can assume that His providence is correct. If we assume otherwise, we are being duplicitous. God can be tested in this each day.

All outcomes are for our ultimate good.

In light of this, read this passage carefully:

Romans 8

18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

That tingle you feel is JOY!

Originally posted by WarmHeartedWorld
reply to post by SuperiorEd

From all that you say, why is God such a sought after commodity?

I am not for or against - just logic tells me that I (and all others that care) MUST do what they can to make all lives better, take away suffering, especially from those who deserve better (i.e. famine stricken nations with chop em up mentalities of the tyrant leaders).

With that said; tell me why we need god anyway? He does little to fix the terrible wrongs --- I beleive in higher than god does - fix not just "welcome all and love them" --- FIX things, take part, become active - not just "believe and pray mentality".

edit on 5-7-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

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jmdewey60

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd

This is taking the high ground against someone you perceive to be on low ground.
Pointing out non-loving actions of what the Old Testament calls "God" is not pride.
Pride is thinking you have the divine right to say your particular tribal god can kill other tribes and no rules of right or wrong can be applied.

Indigo5

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by SuperiorEd

No free will can exist apart form the possibility that one choice will be evil.

What? If God is omnipotent than nothing exists "apart" from his creation. He is the creator of all things, including evil.

He is either all powerful and has created evil or he is not omnipotent and the creator of all things.

God is good because He dares to allow this option.

What option? Cancer? Tsunamis? Child molestation? Serial Killers?

What about those creations by an omnipotent God is good?

JesusisTruthh

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

No free will can exist apart form the possibility that one choice will be evil.

What? If God is omnipotent than nothing exists "apart" from his creation. He is the creator of all things, including evil.

He is either all powerful and has created evil or he is not omnipotent and the creator of all things.

God is good because He dares to allow this option.

What option? Cancer? Tsunamis? Child molestation? Serial Killers?

What about those creations by an omnipotent God is good?

No, God isn't the creator of evil. Evil is the lack of God in a humansoul. Lack of grace.

Think about it.

He created love too right? So is God that stupid enough to contradict his own spirit? Why is their love and evil and not just one or the other?

it's a lack of God in the human soul that goes along with choice to chose grace or not.

edit on 5-7-2011 by JesusisTruthh because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-7-2011 by JesusisTruthh because: (no reason given)

bogomil

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd

You wrote:

["The original sin was pride."]

There is no original sin. It's a myth.

SuperiorEd

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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In other words, you will take the high ground and leave God to take the low ground? God see you as equal when you see others in love. God is one of the others.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by SuperiorEd

You wrote:

["The original sin was pride."]

There is no original sin. It's a myth.

bogomil

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by JesusisTruthh

You wrote:

["No, God isn't the creator of evil. Evil is the lack of God in a humansoul. Lack of grace."]

The character Jahveh is definitely evil, as he's portraited, so the 'lack' of him should consequently make people good. Grace is a mythological invention.

bogomil

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by SuperiorEd

In other words, you will take the high ground and leave God to take the low ground? God see you as equal when you see others in love. God is one of the others.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by SuperiorEd

You wrote:

["The original sin was pride."]

There is no original sin. It's a myth.

You suggest, that I MUST function and form my opinions on YOUR premises? You certainly have some nerve.

So I repeat, there is no original sin and it has nothing to do with high or low grounds, as you talk about imaginary concepts.

SuperiorEd

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruthh

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

No free will can exist apart form the possibility that one choice will be evil.

What? If God is omnipotent than nothing exists "apart" from his creation. He is the creator of all things, including evil.

He is either all powerful and has created evil or he is not omnipotent and the creator of all things.

God is good because He dares to allow this option.

What option? Cancer? Tsunamis? Child molestation? Serial Killers?

What about those creations by an omnipotent God is good?

No, God isn't the creator of evil. Evil is the lack of God in a humansoul. Lack of grace.

Think about it.

He created love too right? So is God that stupid enough to contradict his own spirit? Why is their love and evil and not just one or the other?

it's a lack of God in the human soul that goes along with choice to chose grace or not.

edit on 5-7-2011 by JesusisTruthh because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-7-2011 by JesusisTruthh because: (no reason given)

I liked your answer. Its a good perspective.

I wonder sometimes if some of these abstracts like love and evil are preexistence like God. If God is all infinity of possibility at rest, this gives us a real look at Him form the standpoint of preexistence. Truth can be seen as absolute in every way. All abstracts are descriptors of values of truth. Truth, as I see it here, is like degrees of the thermometer. Hot and cold are merely descriptors of the one thing of temperature. Good and evil are the same. Degrees of the one thing called good. Evil is at the bottom of the scale of possibility and it is up to each of us to rise as far to the goal as possible. Can there be too much good? Is it possible that the answer is yes? To achieve free will, the degree must be set to random and unpredictable. Ultimate good is then achieving the highest degree possible on the scale away from evil. God exists at the top, drawing us further. He rises above in the infinity of good as we rise. He is always at the top.

Interesting.

edit on 5-7-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-7-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

JesusisTruthh

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by JesusisTruthh

You wrote:

["No, God isn't the creator of evil. Evil is the lack of God in a humansoul. Lack of grace."]

The character Jahveh is definitely evil, as he's portraited, so the 'lack' of him should consequently make people good. Grace is a mythological invention.

No he isn't... you're only picking and chosing a mis interpreted 10% of how he's portrayed because of your bigotry.

But anyways if grace wasn't real, evil wouldn't exist. Some souls have no fealing inside. Some have little, some have alot enough to cry....

Every ounce of love is a movement in the soul of grace. This is impossible to explain so I'll let God show you after death.

toodles of noodles

edit on 5-7-2011 by JesusisTruthh because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-7-2011 by JesusisTruthh because: (no reason given)

bogomil

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd

You wrote:

["Hot and cold are merely descriptors of the one thing of temperature."]

and

quote: ["Good and evil are the same."]

You are as usual creating inductive categories of no value. Hot and cold are measurable physical states, good and evil are subjective abstractions. The two sets have no similarities. It's only scholastic.

Indigo5

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruthh

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

No free will can exist apart form the possibility that one choice will be evil.

What? If God is omnipotent than nothing exists "apart" from his creation. He is the creator of all things, including evil.

He is either all powerful and has created evil or he is not omnipotent and the creator of all things.

God is good because He dares to allow this option.

What option? Cancer? Tsunamis? Child molestation? Serial Killers?

What about those creations by an omnipotent God is good?

No, God isn't the creator of evil. Evil is the lack of God in a humansoul. Lack of grace.

Think about it.

Oh I have. You speak of light and shadow being it's absence. But in a realm of an omnipotent God there is no neccessity for evil. God creates not just the content of reality, but reality and it guiding laws. He does not have to tolerate Evil in order to create good. He can simply have good.

That or he is not all-powerful.

All of that is apart form the non-human attrocities that visit themselves upon a humans existence. earthquakes, tsunamis, cancers in children....or are you of the mind that those things are Gods will and punishment?

True knowledge of God requires an acceptance of ignorance, not an acceptance of orthodox scripture or authority which is simply arrogance. God reveals himself spiritually, but not intellectually.

Meditate or look at the clouds, sunsets, trees, the animal kingdom, science and physics and also ponder eathquakes and hurricanes and tsunamis inflicting death and suffering on millions without discrimination for age or religion and discern from his work what you will, but he will not answer questions directly and to that end the Bible is BS.

SuperiorEd

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 04:11 PM
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I reply to myself here. This is my last post here. God is good for one reason. Based on my last post I realized something that cannot be argued.

God is good as far as good can rise on the scale. If we can imagine a better good, then we must demonstrate this by our actions to be above God in goodness. Anything else is pride. You can try if you like. From what we have said here, God is at the top forever above us. His goodness is the definition of what Good can be unless we can do better. Choose love and choose God.

Join me in any of these two new threads.

LINK The Trinity Explained by Physics and the Quantum Observer

LINK The Problem of Evil. What do bad returns come to those who invest in good?

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Originally posted by JesusisTruthh

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

No free will can exist apart form the possibility that one choice will be evil.

What? If God is omnipotent than nothing exists "apart" from his creation. He is the creator of all things, including evil.

He is either all powerful and has created evil or he is not omnipotent and the creator of all things.

God is good because He dares to allow this option.

What option? Cancer? Tsunamis? Child molestation? Serial Killers?

What about those creations by an omnipotent God is good?

No, God isn't the creator of evil. Evil is the lack of God in a humansoul. Lack of grace.

Think about it.

He created love too right? So is God that stupid enough to contradict his own spirit? Why is their love and evil and not just one or the other?

it's a lack of God in the human soul that goes along with choice to chose grace or not.

edit on 5-7-2011 by JesusisTruthh because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-7-2011 by JesusisTruthh because: (no reason given)

I liked your answer. Its a good perspective.

I wonder sometimes if some of these abstracts like love and evil are preexistence like God. If God is all infinity of possibility at rest, this gives us a real look at Him form the standpoint of preexistence. Truth can be seen as absolute in every way. All abstracts are descriptors of values of truth. Truth, as I see it here, is like degrees of the thermometer. Hot and cold are merely descriptors of the one thing of temperature. Good and evil are the same. Degrees of the one thing called good. Evil is at the bottom of the scale of possibility and it is up to each of us to rise as far to the goal as possible. Can there be too much good? Is it possible that the answer is yes? To achieve free will, the degree must be set to random and unpredictable. Ultimate good is then achieving the highest degree possible on the scale away from evil. God exists at the top, drawing us further. He rises above in the infinity of good as we rise. He is always at the top.

Interesting.

edit on 5-7-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-7-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

JesusisTruthh

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by SuperiorEd

You wrote:

["Hot and cold are merely descriptors of the one thing of temperature."]

and

quote: ["Good and evil are the same."]

You are as usual creating inductive categories of no value. Hot and cold are measurable physical states, good and evil are subjective abstractions. The two sets have no similarities. It's only scholastic.

This is a good point; however, Cold and hot can Co-exist, whereas, evil and good cannot in their purest form.

So again, like I said. God isn't stupid enough to contradict his own spirit. he can't be love and evil at the same time. Obviously he is one or the other, and the other that he's not, is the result of the opposite of his ways and spirit.

This is common sense.

sorry OP for taking up so many post

bogomil

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by JesusisTruthh

You wrote:

["No he isn't... you're only picking and chosing a mis interpreted 10% of how he's portrayed because of your bigotry."]

Misinterpretated according to YOUR interpretation. As I use rational methods, mine are probably better.

'Bigotry' = anyone disagreeing with you. Christians are so endearing in their tolerance and love to those, who don't believe in their myths. A VERY good example for the rest of us, so we feel inspired to join you.

Quote: [" But anyways if grace wasn't real, evil wouldn't exist."]

A meaningless postulate.

Quote: ["Some souls have no fealing inside."]

'Soul'...also a postulate.

Quote: ["Every ounce of love is a movement in the soul of grace. This is impossible to explain so I'll let God show you after death."]

And until then I have to take your word for it; and if I don't take your word for it, I'm a bigot. Nice logical going.

SuperiorEd

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by JesusisTruthh

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

No free will can exist apart form the possibility that one choice will be evil.

What? If God is omnipotent than nothing exists "apart" from his creation. He is the creator of all things, including evil.

He is either all powerful and has created evil or he is not omnipotent and the creator of all things.

God is good because He dares to allow this option.

What option? Cancer? Tsunamis? Child molestation? Serial Killers?

What about those creations by an omnipotent God is good?

No, God isn't the creator of evil. Evil is the lack of God in a humansoul. Lack of grace.

Think about it.

Oh I have. You speak of light and shadow being it's absence. But in a realm of an omnipotent God there is no neccessity for evil. God creates not just the content of reality, but reality and it guiding laws. He does not have to tolerate Evil in order to create good. He can simply have good.

That or he is not all-powerful.

All of that is apart form the non-human attrocities that visit themselves upon a humans existence. earthquakes, tsunamis, cancers in children....or are you of the mind that those things are Gods will and punishment?

True knowledge of God requires an acceptance of ignorance, not an acceptance of orthodox scripture or authority which is simply arrogance. God reveals himself spiritually, but not intellectually.

Meditate or look at the clouds, sunsets, trees, the animal kingdom, science and physics and also ponder eathquakes and hurricanes and tsunamis inflicting death and suffering on millions without discrimination for age or religion and discern from his work what you will, but he will not answer questions directly and to that end the Bible is BS.

Okay. One more. God gave us free will but also equality. If we cannot choose evil, but are restricted, then we are not equal with God in a bond of love and choice. We create just like God. We have free will just like God. We have choice just like God. We must learn to love if we can hope to know evil and avoid it. Equal here does not mean ability or knowledge or wisdom. It means that we have equal access to His ability, knowledge and wisdom. We can join Him as long as we reciprocate His example. Love is the universal law, inexorable. Earth is the school and we can rebel against the teacher or learn what He knows. Graduate if you want or drop out. I choose to learn for the future good of my existence.

jmdewey60

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by bogomil

The character Jahveh is definitely evil, as he's portrayed, so the 'lack' of him should consequently make people good.
I'm only quoting the part of your post I agree with, so just for the record I am being selective and "cherry picking". Any right thinking person should understand this concept that is being expressed here, whether that person is a "believer" or not. Connections between the Old and New Testaments are sketchy at best. There may or may not be direct prophecies about Jesus in the Old Testament but I do not think it would be in the parts that glorify mass murder and tribalism and warfare. When the Pharisees told Jesus that they had Abraham as their father, he replied that their father was a murderer. Are we to say that Jesus was wrong somehow and that these depictions of various gods in the history of themselves (that one particular tribe) that we are handed as "scriptures" have to be revered, right or wrong? I would say, No. That is not where we find Jesus, and to accept this lumped together mess of books as having to be adopted as a creed by Christians is to me a crime of monstrous proportion and is the source of the killings of millions of innocents.

JesusisTruthh

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by JesusisTruthh

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

No free will can exist apart form the possibility that one choice will be evil.

What? If God is omnipotent than nothing exists "apart" from his creation. He is the creator of all things, including evil.

He is either all powerful and has created evil or he is not omnipotent and the creator of all things.

God is good because He dares to allow this option.

What option? Cancer? Tsunamis? Child molestation? Serial Killers?

What about those creations by an omnipotent God is good?

No, God isn't the creator of evil. Evil is the lack of God in a humansoul. Lack of grace.

Think about it.

Oh I have. You speak of light and shadow being it's absence. But in a realm of an omnipotent God there is no neccessity for evil. God creates not just the content of reality, but reality and it guiding laws. He does not have to tolerate Evil in order to create good. He can simply have good.

That or he is not all-powerful.

All of that is apart form the non-human attrocities that visit themselves upon a humans existence. earthquakes, tsunamis, cancers in children....or are you of the mind that those things are Gods will and punishment?

True knowledge of God requires an acceptance of ignorance, not an acceptance of orthodox scripture or authority which is simply arrogance. God reveals himself spiritually, but not intellectually.

Meditate or look at the clouds, sunsets, trees, the animal kingdom, science and physics and also ponder eathquakes and hurricanes and tsunamis inflicting death and suffering on millions without discrimination for age or religion and discern from his work what you will, but he will not answer questions directly and to that end the Bible is BS.

Well, love requires a choice. he didn't make drones. he wanted people to chose to love him. that's his will. We did start out ONLY good in the garden. We didn't know evil. We were naked and didn't realize it because the grace they had.

but, again, I can't read Gods mind, but I think he made the reality of choice to show our true individuality.

He does answer it directly. earthquakes, Tsunamis, cancer, they all lead to???

death.

death happens to?

everyone eventually.

God is concerned for the spiritual side of our existence. death happens by his will to everyone. it's no different than a 90 year old dying of old age.

The reality is, is that love exist. And he put that love in us. he didn't teach us to hate people. he taught us to love people.

SuperiorEd

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 04:26 PM
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Great answer. Thank you.

Originally posted by JesusisTruthh

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by JesusisTruthh

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

No free will can exist apart form the possibility that one choice will be evil.

What? If God is omnipotent than nothing exists "apart" from his creation. He is the creator of all things, including evil.

He is either all powerful and has created evil or he is not omnipotent and the creator of all things.

God is good because He dares to allow this option.

What option? Cancer? Tsunamis? Child molestation? Serial Killers?

What about those creations by an omnipotent God is good?

No, God isn't the creator of evil. Evil is the lack of God in a humansoul. Lack of grace.

Think about it.

Oh I have. You speak of light and shadow being it's absence. But in a realm of an omnipotent God there is no neccessity for evil. God creates not just the content of reality, but reality and it guiding laws. He does not have to tolerate Evil in order to create good. He can simply have good.

That or he is not all-powerful.

All of that is apart form the non-human attrocities that visit themselves upon a humans existence. earthquakes, tsunamis, cancers in children....or are you of the mind that those things are Gods will and punishment?

True knowledge of God requires an acceptance of ignorance, not an acceptance of orthodox scripture or authority which is simply arrogance. God reveals himself spiritually, but not intellectually.

Meditate or look at the clouds, sunsets, trees, the animal kingdom, science and physics and also ponder eathquakes and hurricanes and tsunamis inflicting death and suffering on millions without discrimination for age or religion and discern from his work what you will, but he will not answer questions directly and to that end the Bible is BS.

Well, love requires a choice. he didn't make drones. he wanted people to chose to love him. that's his will. We did start out ONLY good in the garden. We didn't know evil. We were naked and didn't realize it because the grace they had.

but, again, I can't read Gods mind, but I think he made the reality of choice to show our true individuality.

He does answer it directly. earthquakes, Tsunamis, cancer, they all lead to???

death.

death happens to?

everyone eventually.

God is concerned for the spiritual side of our existence. death happens by his will to everyone. it's no different than a 90 year old dying of old age.

The reality is, is that love exist. And he put that love in us. he didn't teach us to hate people. he taught us to love people.

JesusisTruthh

posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by JesusisTruthh

You wrote:

["No he isn't... you're only picking and chosing a mis interpreted 10% of how he's portrayed because of your bigotry."]

Misinterpretated according to YOUR interpretation. As I use rational methods, mine are probably better.

'Bigotry' = anyone disagreeing with you. Christians are so endearing in their tolerance and love to those, who don't believe in their myths. A VERY good example for the rest of us, so we feel inspired to join you.

Quote: [" But anyways if grace wasn't real, evil wouldn't exist."]

A meaningless postulate.

Quote: ["Some souls have no fealing inside."]

'Soul'...also a postulate.

Quote: ["Every ounce of love is a movement in the soul of grace. This is impossible to explain so I'll let God show you after death."]

And until then I have to take your word for it; and if I don't take your word for it, I'm a bigot. Nice logical going.

Nah dude. nice try, it doesn't work. I meant you're a bigot for the misinterpretation of scripture. I didn't call you a bigot for not knowing what grace is..

lol dem atheist are sharp as a tack..