Another form of freedom being stripped from America?

Another form of freedom being stripped from America?

rt.com

he Justice Department is saying that “a person has no reasonable expectation of privacy in his movements from one place to another,” and is now demanding that justices undo the reversal of the Jones case. In a petition filed by the Obama administration this week, the Supreme Court will weigh the terms of the Fourth Amendment when coupled with modern technology, challenging the right to be secure from “searches and seizures.” Granted, the Framers of the Constitution probably didn’t have TomToms and Magellans on their mind when they were scribbling out the Bill of Rights, but if Octobe

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I'm not really sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I can see both sides of the story. On the Law's side it would help them track down drug dealers which in turn would save us some taxer payer money but, on the other side it takes away more of our freedom and for what? Here again, I think there is another way or just leave what works alone. I wonder who is really behind this change? Also, I wonder how many other ways are they tracking us? But, to be quite frank, from all the bad stuff happening in the world, we probably won't be around to see this ever go into effect.

rt.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by mustangill


Wait a second... You think that the government tracking down drug dealers would save us money? How? The average prisoner costs around $40,000 a year to imprison. You think that people wouldn't be able to get drugs if the dealers were arrested? Nah, there will always be drugs. Imprisoning people for that has never solved anything, only caused more problems. Besides, how many more freedoms are people like you going to take from people like me, to attempt to take away the freedoms of people like them?

I don't understand your title as there is no freedom being stripped from people unless the Supreme Court sides with the justice department which I don't see happening.

It's still a conservative court and so far they've upheld people's rights fairly well. Undoubtably this case was going to go here so that's not a suprise but it's definetly one to watch as the implications could be huge.

And for all those who think the Patriot Act has stipped your rights I would point you to this case. It doesn't involve terrorists so what happens? It goes through the normal judicial system.

Citizens have not lost any rights due to the Patriot Act.

reply to post by mustangill


So if this is passed or whatever, it is a never ending slippery slope.

If the Government can put GPS trackers on a criminal's car without even a warrant, where does it end?

Tomorrow its criminals, the next day its suspected terrorists, and a year from now its everyone.

Where does it end?

reply to post by Q:1984A:1776


I don't take your freedom away and actually, I believe that the drug industry is a domino effect that the government has created.
But, I am talking about drug dealers that sell drugs to kids, stores that sell bath salts knowing they are dangerous and kids will die from them as they already have. I won't get into that here but I will created another post to that as that is a whole other discussion that I feel very passionate about.

reply to post by kro32

Citizens have not lost any rights due to the Patriot Act.

says a neo con who has supported bush,why dont you prove that Citizens have not lost any rights due to the Patriot Act?

My goodness some people on here are becoming full time supporters to the unconstitutional to the Patriot Act

Originally posted by Q:1984A:1776
reply to post by mustangill

 

Besides, how many more freedoms are people like you going to take from people like me, to attempt to take away the freedoms of people like them?

Quote of the year so far!!! Nice one! Much respect

I don't live in America, but spent most of the last 20 years in London, UK. We are all loosing freedoms daily, being moulded and manipulated, controlled and observed. I suppose from one point of view it is interesting to see how long it can go before the people snap!

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by kro32

 

Citizens have not lost any rights due to the Patriot Act.

says a neo con who has supported bush,why dont you prove that Citizens have not lost any rights due to the Patriot Act?

What makes you think I ever supported Bush? I actually didn't but that's besides the point.

As far as proving my point on the Patriot Act I believe I just did. If this was a terrorist this would never have gone to court as it's legal under the Patriot Act proving that they can't do this to citizens without a reason.

Anything else you would like to know before I log for the night?

Originally posted by kro32
Citizens have not lost any rights due to the Patriot Act.

Except you know, privacy.
It isn't a big deal though, its just a fundamental human right.

no biggie.

The fine line we tread between a wish for safety, and the desire for freedom...ahhh, nuts.

I understand watching public places...but are we talkin' tracking you from the house to the store, to grammy's, etc?

Next step (I believe already taken next step) Cellphone-synched trace of all of everyone's movements?

Who's truly ok with this type of Orwell 101?...because of a terrorist act that may or may not happen at some vague point in the future?

What the hell?!?!

(tinfoil hat on)

Originally posted by Segador

Originally posted by kro32
Citizens have not lost any rights due to the Patriot Act.

Except you know, privacy.
It isn't a big deal though, its just a fundamental human right.

no biggie.

Care to explain how your privacy has been invaded since the Patriot Act. I know mine hasn't so I'm really really curious to hear this.

Originally posted by mustangill
reply to post by Q:1984A:1776

 

I don't take your freedom away and actually, I believe that the drug industry is a domino effect that the government has created.
But, I am talking about drug dealers that sell drugs to kids, stores that sell bath salts knowing they are dangerous and kids will die from them as they already have. I won't get into that here but I will created another post to that as that is a whole other discussion that I feel very passionate about.

Actually, you just might take my freedom away by saying "I'm not really sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I can see both sides of the story." We still live in some form of democracy, and if most people out there are on the fence about whether or not we should have a 4th amendment, we won't have one for long, as the only thing that ever prevents big government from becoming tyrannical is a clear and definite line in the sand.
Edit to add: I'd like to take part in your thread about "the drug industry" I think I could add a bit to the conversation where it is more appropriate. I'd appreciate a pm when you make it, if it's not too much trouble. Thanks.

reply to post by kro32


My grandmother was raided under the cloak of The Patriot Act by several branches of Federal and local law-enforcement a couple years ago. The offense? She was the victim of a scam from somebody in Africa. Because the person/s were in a country "known to harbor terrorists" she fell under the provisions of The Patriot Act and they didn't even need a warrant to raid her home. By the way, they would have never been able to obtain one, as my grandmother didn't break any laws. If they had merely asked her for the contact information of the person who scammed her, she would have provided it without hesitation. Instead, they pointed assault rifles at her head, and drug her out into the 120 degree weather of an Arizona summer and left her there for over 2 hours while they ransacked her home, finding nothing.
This sort of thing is EXACTLY what the 4th amendment was written to protect people from. The Patriot Act is spit in the face of anyone who thinks of themselves as free and there are many more stories out there, just like mine and you know it Kro. You really just come on this site to piss people off don't you?
By Jesus, I'd love to meet you in a dark alley...

Reply to post by kro32

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

Please introduce the Patriot Act into your to-read list.

Then come back. Kthxbai.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Q:1984A:1776


Wow your threatening people over a forum post?

Very adult of you. Also your grandmother story is very short on facts. Federal agencies do not raid people just on the fact that they did business with someone in Africa. They don't have that many law enforcement people. Not saying your grandmother is guilty of anything but something's not on the up and up so like I said, if everybody's rights are being stripped by the Patriot Act then let's see some examples.

Instead we don't get any just posts about how I should read it or fishy stories about grandmothers.

reply to post by Q:1984A:1776


Cheap slave labor in prison... that's a huge incentive... not to mention privately owned prisons... they also make money... the govt loses money, but the money makers in the background would love to support this law/bill.

so the tax payer yet again gets screwed... financially, and have more of their freedoms stripped away.

/sighs

reply to post by kro32


You're not fooling anyone with your holier than thou attitude. It's actually quite insulting to other readers.

reply to post by Zamini


What holier than thou attitude? I am simply debating the relevancy of the Patriot Act. If you have an opinion on something i've been incorrect on than I am more than willing to discuss it or change my stance if I'm incorrect. I believe my points are valid however since nobody has brought forth information to show how their privacy has been affected.

I understand the grandmother story and that's horrible but no facts were given for me to research or consider and usually those types of responses are more often than not just contrived to argue a point.

Originally posted by RoswellCityLimits
Next step (I believe already taken next step) Cellphone-synched trace of all of everyone's movements?

Been around forever (in technological terms)

Google Latitude Cellphone Locatior

Believe it or not- the most powerful ELINT interception tools are civilian and not government (for all practical purposes i.e. cellphones, GPS "bugs") and are available over the counter.