Time does NOT exist

reply to post by EthanT


Is our are aware of the previous moment time, time itself:

Without an observer are these indeed merely independent frame of a movie?

Is it the connection made by the observer the manifestation of time - does that mean the mind makes it so (like the inability to observe quantum particles without effecting them) ?

Or does that mean it's no more than an intangible concept of the mind - a phantom?

In the dimensions in which consciousness cannot exist, but movement can exist, can time exist?

If a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it, does it make a noise. Well it makes [sound] waves, so should we be looking for 'timewaves' ? (whatever the hell they might be!)

Don't the effects of gravity prove time exists?

To be honest, the more i ask, the less i think i know....

Only real way to prove time's tangibility and reality would be to traverse it.

In the expanse of the Great Cosmos, all things happen at once.

There is no now, and no later.

It's all happening in this moment.

So, it's only our perception that sees this moment as seperate from.... this moment here.

But it is a necessary illusion, otherwise we'd burn dinner.

Cool that someone is working on the science of all that, but most won't get why that is important...

reply to post by randyvs


Nice call on the music randyvs

I was waiting for someone to hit the nail on the head...

Here is my take on it...

Time is relative to consciousness, and the states of "being" within this universe only have meaning where you find consciousness foci; along with "stuff" flying about in that great black womb of life out there...

It is my belief that the cosom we live in is...well...an etheric being of cosmic size, and from our perspective, even if there is noone in the woods to hear the tree fall, it still gets "heard" by the cosmic mind/source/consciousness..../God.

We are offspring, and so our consciousness does some of the same things, only on a smaller level, (we call it imagination], and with limited influence on the progenitors "globe of awareness".
Our little spirit orbs may very well, one....er...day.. become progenitors of even smaller cosoms...(relativly speaking)
Perhaps, even circling about one of those little photons left spreading infinitly outward from the cooling parental cosom...
The last remnant tie to the mind of our creator...and the infinit chain of consciousness before...

Iv'e posted this poem I made before, but I think it fits well to this particular thread...enjoy!

It's called

The Ultimate Freedom


The children of ultimate freedom are filled with the molten froth of calamities spiraling tirade.
Gone are the parental and societal orders, stifling as the night womb from whence they came.
Open is the door into the eternities...
Swiftly crumbling are the ledges of reason in the wombs darkened aerie...

Maturation approaches until its ardor matches the terror of what is unknown.
The child is free to be born anew, or borne down in forever’s bitter sweet embrace.
Reason dances with desire in an ever maddening spin of ordered chaos...
The furor of light and dark reaches a pinnacled instance of paradox..!

Yet, it is the age of light, and the fires of chaos must win; for the birth is the reason; and we are never truly free of the plan.
The seed is germinated or consumed; lost in the endless folds of nothing and everything.
As before, forevers are born anew, growing always outward, toward the ultimate freedom...

Hogwash Bullpucky Balderdash

If time didn't exist, then how come I can understand the things that man is saying in the video...over time?

These "nows" he speaks of, which occur in perfect sequence, occur OVER TIME. Duh?

This guy is not a scientist, he's a philosopher. A confused one at that!

incidently, I did actually like the video
the universe is not a rubber band of time, it is a old school projector of images flickering...each frame a complete and untouched fixture for all "time".

Its confusing, and a bit mind bending, however, it does exercise the mind and creative understanding overall...

One thing that strikes me though...why is it when your young and speak like this, its considered "stoner talk" but when you get older and have some paper behind you, they call it cutting edge science. heh

reply to post by akushla99

What constitutes the 'future'?

That could only be those things that happen there-in. Nothing in the present can constitute the future.

I just heard this today.

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift for which we must all be present.

Originally posted by Cryptonomicon
Hogwash Bullpucky Balderdash

If time didn't exist, then how come I can understand the things that man is saying in the video...over time?

These "nows" he speaks of, which occur in perfect sequence, occur OVER TIME. Duh?

This guy is not a scientist, he's a philosopher. A confused one at that!

How do you know its in perfect sequence...this second is happening now, but the next second may happen in a zillion years, however, the next second you will not be aware of the series of other random time events that happened between the second before and the new second.

hense the picture example..jumble up a pile of photographs and it won't change the photograph...the sequence may be out of order, but the actual slide itself is exactly how it was and forever shall be.

perhaps time is also working like a jumbled up set of pictures...the next second may be the dark ages, followed by 5 million years in the future, followed by woodstock, followed by, etc.

now that that understanding and instead of thinking of a long reel of mixed up time, its just one pile, all happening at the same exact nanosecond...all time, all history, the beginning and the end in a single flash of time.

far out man.

reply to post by Khurzon


I like your use of the word " stuff ". a more fitting in context contrast, I can not think of.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by EthanT

 

I have great success just telling people they have their head up their arse.
Sometimes they tell me.

I'm ok , I'm over it.

yep, that works for me too sometimes

Time is just a tool humans use to help solve problems, like Timing in a combustion engine.

must tell my boss this next time im late

Originally posted by jimnuggits
In the expanse of the Great Cosmos, all things happen at once.

There is no now, and no later.

It's all happening in this moment.

So, it's only our perception that sees this moment as seperate from.... this moment here.

But it is a necessary illusion, otherwise we'd burn dinner.

Cool that someone is working on the science of all that, but most won't get why that is important...

Excellent...couldnt have said it better myself.
Akushla

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by akushla99

 

What constitutes the 'future'?

That could only be those things that happen there-in. Nothing in the present can constitute the future.

I just heard this today.

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift for which we must all be present.

edit on 28-6-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

...and you are alluding to my original statement...except, that you have discounted how your actions in the present do affect your future...so, indeed the seed of the future is actually in the present!..and the present is the only 'Time', in which it can be affected...which, subsequently becomes the past, and so on and so on...get it? Therefore, the only 'Time' worth worrying about or dealing with things in, is the Present - the Now.
Procedurally, you cannot be in all tenses at the same time, but in effect, you really are. If the human brain has trouble understanding this and we need Mrs & Mrs Scientist to tell us this (when they can wrap thier brain around it), why not just sit back and let things happen? Of course, you dont...you plan, you prognosticate, you dream...these thoughts (for want of a better term) are you making a decision on which future 'stream' you will follow. It is the way it is...otherwise we would be physically doing future things, now...or reliving past events as if they were actually happening. Psychology aside, the way i have explained it is exactly the way it is happening. Anyone is welcome to dispute it.
Akushla

I put up another thread that has more weird stuff on time (and how it might be related to ESP). It involves an interpretation of quantum mechanics called Time Symmetric Quantum Mechanics, and can be viewed here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Superb video many thanks. My head hurts now but in a good way.

Originally posted by tarifa37
Superb video many thanks. My head hurts now but in a good way.

Glad you enjoyed the video Tarifa! It gave me a headache too ;-)

Originally posted by McGinty
Without an observer are these indeed merely independent frame of a movie?

So then the conscience is merely you deciding ( to some degree) which frame you will view next. And there are some laws which govern our viewing experience and dictate that if we view frame #23 we must view either frame #24 or #48 next. So in that case you can't view yourself from your chair and then the next second view yourself as if you were in a cloud flying.

But what if you had the ability to move between ANY frame you saw fit? In that sense it would truly be Heaven because you could craft any reality you chose simply by switching to a different view of reality. Do we need to catalog all of these frames with our conscience before we have the ability to view them all out of order? Perhaps we need to map them all out so we know where they all are. Sort of like indexing all the books in a library. That's a lot of indexes. Really an infinite number of them so where do you begin and how do you gather the information?

So what if God was sending out souls to experience a life to map a specific pattern of frames? Then after "life" the viewer comes back and shares the map of what possibilities happened. So in theory the the life review that people have in NDE was simply the sharing of knowledge with the whole. Multiply that out to an infinite number of souls bringing back an infinite number of possible things that happen, different snapshots of the Universe...

*Head explodes*

So apparently the faster you go, the slower time is for you. What if we wanted to come to a dead stop? I mean taking into account the speed of our galaxys movement in the universe, the galaxys rotational speed, our sun's directional speed and our planets speed orbiting around the sun, taking all these into consideration, if we were to somehow be able to slow down, and I mean really slow down our speed, would time appear to speed up? Maybe if this is the case and 'time' or the perception of time is different in other parts of the universe. Or maybe this is totally wrong and 'time' is the same constant through out the universe.

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by McGinty
Without an observer are these indeed merely independent frame of a movie?

So then the conscience is merely you deciding ( to some degree) which frame you will view next. And there are some laws which govern our viewing experience and dictate that if we view frame #23 we must view either frame #24 or #48 next. So in that case you can't view yourself from your chair and then the next second view yourself as if you were in a cloud flying.

But what if you had the ability to move between ANY frame you saw fit? In that sense it would truly be Heaven because you could craft any reality you chose simply by switching to a different view of reality. Do we need to catalog all of these frames with our conscience before we have the ability to view them all out of order? Perhaps we need to map them all out so we know where they all are. Sort of like indexing all the books in a library. That's a lot of indexes. Really an infinite number of them so where do you begin and how do you gather the information?

So what if God was sending out souls to experience a life to map a specific pattern of frames? Then after "life" the viewer comes back and shares the map of what possibilities happened. So in theory the the life review that people have in NDE was simply the sharing of knowledge with the whole. Multiply that out to an infinite number of souls bringing back an infinite number of possible things that happen, different snapshots of the Universe...

*Head explodes*

Interesting, but moving between different realities is something of a jump in the thesis.

However, being able to move, as you say, to any given frame on the timeline of your own life is less head-exploding, but no less incredible...

For a great account of how this may feel as a life led, see Kurt Vonnegut Jnr's masterpiece, the book SLAUGHTER HOUSE 5.

Protagonist Billy Pilgrim sadly lacks control of when and where in his timeline he shifts to, making for a pretty awful, if poetic existence.

Interesting topic, I have been interested in Physics for a while and am just begining to read up on it properly using the free pdf motion mountain.

Time and space are relative making it difficult to measure either except from our personal reference, how would you describe a distance or length of time so that someone in another galaxy would be able to recreate the exact amount of time or distance?

The only thing that is not relative is light, well all EM waves really.

So for time you can state it in relation to the distance light would travel in that period.
For distance you can state how far light would travel in a given time.

I cannot be the only one that spots the problem with the above, it means there is no possible way to accurately communicate time or space for someone outside of your particular reference point. Does this mean there is no time or space, only motion?

Even for us on earth to communicate time or distance to someone in orbit, we would have to factor in the diference in relative speeds and calculate that in for them to recreate the EXACT distance or length of time.

i have a feeling I will be exploring this sort of thing in great detail later on in the book, if I can keep going that long. One thing I am amazed at is the amount of this type of philosophy that goes with physics.