Time does NOT exist

reply to post by EthanT


Time does exist, to us humans anyway. We use time to keep track of our daily progress in this life. We also use time in space to determine what season it is so we can get our crops ready for harvest.

The Mayans mastered time through the use of their calender. Ancients used to use the sun for the equinoxes.

So to say time does not exist would mean we don't exist. We are in harmony with the tool we developed.

In my opinion what we are looking at here is simply the impossibility of quantifying time, since it is infinite and eternal, thus cannot be quantified. Any one mathematically quantifying time and space by nature must therefore particulate it such that each particle there of is then a quantified unit that is calibrated such that mathematicians can then do calculations with. The speed of light is one such arbitrary calibration, which is certainly not the absolute that the foolish believe it to be. Meaning that the speed of light 300,000 kilometres per second can be infinitely transcended. So that not only do mathematician think that reality is made of particulate units, like for example atoms and electrons and photons, but now they are thinking of time as being made of particulate units too. In actual reality particles do not exist. Reality is actually vibrations within vibrations within vibrations ad infinitum. Thus time also is a vibrational manifestation. A vibration in a higher dimension that we experience not as the full cycle but rather as a single point along that cycle. With our consciousness we only experience a single point. The full cycle is invisible in our sub-consciousness. When we sleep we sometimes access that higher dimensional domain in that we dream. When we die that access is even greater. But even then we are still only the consciousness, blind to all the relative higher dimensionality in our sub-consciousness. I suggest that you try to get a copy of THE HOLOGRAPHIC UNIVERSE by Michael Talbot.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/89be64c7b7a0.jpg[/atsimg]

Enligt min mening det vi ser här är helt enkelt omöjligt att kvantifiera tid, eftersom den är oändlig och evig, kan därmed inte kvantifieras. Någon matematiskt kvantifiera tid och rum av naturen måste därför partiklar det så att varje partikel där av är då en kvantifierad enhet som är kalibrerad så att matematiker kan sedan göra beräkningar med. Ljusets hastighet är en sådan godtycklig kalibrering, vilket sannerligen inte absolut att de dåraktiga tror att det är. Vilket innebär att ljusets hastighet 300 tusen kilometer per sekund oändligt kan överskridas. Så att de inte bara matematiker tror att verkligheten består av partiklar enheter, som t ex atomer och elektroner och fotoner, men nu funderar på tiden som görs av partiklar enheter också. I själva verkligheten partiklar finns inte. Verkligheten är faktiskt vibrationer inom vibrationer inom vibrationer oändlighet. Således tid är också en vibrerande manifestation. En vibration i en högre dimension som vi upplever inte är så hela cykeln utan snarare som en enda punkt längs den cykeln. Med vårt medvetande vi upplever bara en enda punkt. Hela cykeln är osynligt i våra underleverantörer medvetande. När vi sover vi ibland komma att högre dimensionell domän som vi drömmer. När vi dör att tillgången är ännu större. Men även då är vi fortfarande bara i medvetandet, blinda för alla de relativa högre djupet i våra underleverantörer medvetande.

AVE RAEGINA CAELINA LA DEUS NOSTRA CAELI LA VERA DEUS

reply to post by CAELENIUM


Wheeee I love that book though I think the late Michael Talbot was a little to gulible sometimes. Think Sai Babba.

Fred Alan Wolf has the nice idea that the probability waves are real ones and that one comes from the past and the other from the future. Only when they match they become one creating the now.

I agree, i don't think time exists, it's a system we have formed to make life easier.
If we were based one more planet outwards our "time" would be completely different. Go to the darkest place in the universe without a watch and tell me what the time is. (I realise im talking about the measuring of time and im not disproving time itself, but it makes me think)

Whats the universe's time ? not using earth's system

reply to post by Equinox99


Time does exist but only in the human world . Outside of that time doesnt exist. Simple as that... If we some how mastered anti-aging then time would be pointless. Life is too short which reflects on our obsession on time.

I am an experiencer...a no-body...no degrees nothing but I can tell you time has no meaning to anyother life creature/Being except the the Human race.

The Human race created time to keep "schedules," whether it be to know when to grow things... harvest things and so on etc. etc. etc.

Now it's used to make sure you keep your schedules to slave away your lives.

Imagine life without the almighty clock-er-rooney

Originally posted by Jamesprototype
I agree, i don't think time exists, it's a system we have formed to make life easier.
If we were based one more planet outwards our "time" would be completely different. Go to the darkest place in the universe without a watch and tell me what the time is. (I realise im talking about the measuring of time and im not disproving time itself, but it makes me think)

Whats the universe's time ? not using earth's system

edit on 28/6/11 by Jamesprototype because: (no reason given)

I think anywhere we go time will exist, because we are temporal creatures. Even if we were floating in a void, time would exist for us and conciously or not we would be measuring and witnessing it: how long have I been here? I am getting tired? How long since I ate last? I think it is time to sleep. eat. pee. even our bodies act temporally - cause and effect, things have to happen in a linear fashion in order for our bodies to survive. Our brain creates the signal for our heart to beat, THEN our heart beats, THEN our blood moves through our bodies, THEN our cells use the oxyegn rich blood. I dont think a temporal being like us can be removed from time, just because our physical bodies would cease to function.
however, if you had a void that did not have us in it, it could very well be absent of time, but would we be able to perceive it with our temporal minds and eyes?? hmmmmmmm.

Originally posted by observe50
I am an experiencer...a no-body...no degrees nothing

but I can tell you time has no meaning to anyother life creature/Being except the the Human race.

The Human race created time to keep "schedules," whether it be to know when to grow things... harvest things and so on etc. etc. etc.

Now it's used to make sure you keep your schedules to slave away your lives.

Imagine life without the almighty clock-er-rooney

i would say variations of time matter to every physical being. Even if they are not aware that they are tracking it. migratory animals instinctively know to travel with seasons, animals know when to hunt, when to store food, when to sleep. You could say those are just instincts caused by weahter or temperatures, but they still signal something in the animals that says "it is time to do something". i dont know - think i am wrong on that one actually.
but at the very least, their bodies are still designed to live in a temporal universe, relying on the same linear developement as us humans. take away time and what happens to their bodies?

This was a cool paper. Published on a respectable site for scientific papers, which was a little surprising almost. They don't usually talk along these lines. It's a pretty easy paper to read, as far as scientific papers go.

It basically says there is more to existence than we realize (higher dimensions) but, since we're focused only on this part that we are currently aware of, it gives the impression time has substance, while in fact, it really does not.

“There’s one thing quite certain in this business. The idea of time as a steady progression from past to future is wrong. I know very well we feel this way about it subjectively. But we’re all victims of a confidence trick. If there’s one thing we can be sure about in physics, it is that all times exist with equal reality” [-Hoyle] This view of time can be put on a physical basis. We imagine that each person’s experiences are a subset of points in spacetime, defined technically by a hypersurface in a higher-dimensional world, and that a person’s life is represented by the evolution of this hypersurface. This is admittedly difficult to visualize. But we can think of existence as a vast ocean whose parts are all connected, but across which a wave runs, its breaking crest precipitating our experiences.

........

That is, we obtain a simple model wherein existence is described by a hypersurface in a higher-dimensional world, with two modes of which one is growing and is identified with corporeal life, and one is wave-like and is identified with the soul, the two modes separated by an event which is commonly called death. Whether one believes in a model like this which straddles physics and spirituality is up to the individual. (In this regard, the author is steadfastly neutral.) However, it is remarkable that such a model can even be formulated, bridging as it does realms of experience which have traditionally been viewed as immutably separate. Even if one stops part way through the above analysis, it is clear that the concept of time may well be an illusion.

arxiv - Time is an Illusion

Originally posted by chrissiel123
i would say variations of time matter to every physical being. Even if they are not aware that they are tracking it. migratory animals instinctively know to travel with seasons, animals know when to hunt, when to store food, when to sleep. You could say those are just instincts caused by weahter or temperatures, but they still signal something in the animals that says "it is time to do something". i dont know - think i am wrong on that one actually.
but at the very least, their bodies are still designed to live in a temporal universe, relying on the same linear developement as us humans. take away time and what happens to their bodies?

I think that last paper I posted mostly agrees with this. It's just that is says every creature is experiencing the same illusion of time.

And the last question might better be phrased ... "take away our bodies and what happens to time?" .... poof!

As long as there is space with something moving in it (above absolute zero temperature) there is also time.

Also, here is an article that challenges our notion of linear time (and to some extent, cause and effect)

A series of quantum experiments shows that measurements performed in the future can influence the present. Does that mean the universe has a destiny—and the laws of physics pull us inexorably toward our prewritten fate?

Discover - Back From the Future

The article is a little misleading, though. This viewpoint is due to one specific interpretation of quantum mechanics called Time Symmetric Quantum Mechanics. This model of QM does indeed have wave vectors propagating from the future into the present/past.

However, apparently this experiment can also be interpreted in another equally valid and mathematically equivalent model of QM and it does NOT involve retrocausation.

So, whether or not retrocausation is real is still up in the air, at best, and completely dismissed, at worst.

arxiv - On a Time Symmetric Formulation of Quantum Mechanics

Here's the main dude that came up with TSQM. Pretty big name in physics. Ever hear of the Aharanov-Bohm effect - yep, that's him!

Aharanov

"Time does NOT exist"

Pics or it DOES exist.

p.s. if you're right then I suppose I can throw my alarm clock out

reply to post by EthanT

And the last question might better be phrased ... "take away our bodies and what happens to time?" .... poof!

Not sure I understand? Time "c" has nothing to do with our carbon bodies ... Stars are born and will die with no human interaction, and it always happens in chronological order. Stars are born, and then die. There is an arrow, or direction, of time.

I think the professor's construct is interesting, but flawed. E=m⋅c2. How would you isolate c without m? As long as there is mass, there will be time. As long as there is "something" (m) in the universe that something undergoes change, which is measured by time (c).

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by EthanT

 

And the last question might better be phrased ... "take away our bodies and what happens to time?" .... poof!

Not sure I understand? Time "c" has nothing to do with our carbon bodies ... Stars are born and will die with no human interaction, and it always happens in chronological order. Stars are born, and then die. There is an arrow, or direction, of time.

I think the professor's construct is interesting, but flawed. E=m⋅c2. How would you isolate c without m? As long as there is mass, there will be time. As long as there is "something" (m) in the universe that something undergoes change, which is measured by time (c).

Well, "c" isn't really time, it's the speed of light (~3x10^8 m/s^2). Really, it is a conversion factor, that allows us to convert between time and space. There is something in Special Relativity that is called the interval, which is related to something called the metric. The metric defines the structure of spacetime. What is special about "c", is that it gives spacetime a structure such that the interval is invariant for ANY observer. This has really important ramifications in SR.

Also, in natural units c=1, and the equation reads E=m, which is kinda cool.

But, I think what the author is saying, is that all this is fine, it's just that it is only part of the picture. When you only look at this part of the picture, sure, time feels real. But, when you factor in the potential existence of higher dimensions, it can take away some of the reality of what we call time.

But, to be dead honest, I don't really get it either. I mean, it's hard to visualize.

reply to post by EthanT


As long as I get wrinkles, and get more winded on my 5k runs every year, time does exist ... lol.

not the best argument to use when your late for work...

you may find out your job doesn't exist

(felt like putting in some ole' country common sense for a change)

reply to post by EthanT


We have known for thousands of years that "time" doesnt exist. Thats why we have used the sun\stars to keep track of things. ))) Welcome to the year 1950+

Ok, well within my fascination/interest range but not so much my education, so here is my perception.
Isn't it a binary universe? Everything that exists is made of energy, so you either have energy or you don't. If it is present then isn't everything else like light, heat, time etc. just a by product of it's presence and reactions?
Darkness doesn't exist does it? It is a name we have given to a condition resulting from the absence of light. Darkness is not produced by anything. Units of measurement don't exist. Nobody can bring me an inch. You can bring me an inch of wood, or an inch of steel, but not an inch itself. I can't help but think that time is also a condition, and not something that can be produced. A minute is a unit of measurement we have created, but exists no more readily than an inch or the condition of darkness does.

Originally posted by Archirvion
reply to post by EthanT

 

We have known for thousands of years that "time" doesnt exist. Thats why we have used the sun\stars to keep track of things.

))) Welcome to the year 1950+

that made no sense.

star watching is pretty much a measurement of time...same with moon phases, and sundials...

We have a preoccupation with time, as its necessary...be it for times when its time to plant or harvest, time to prepare for sleep and security, time to awake and search for food or build stuff, time for breeding to start (age), time for etc...

Time exists, it runs nearly every part of our lives...no time = no existance, literally and figuratively.

Even our body uses time...time for food, time for a heartbeat, time to breathe, time to fall asleep...