Why Palestinians want this video removed

So this video pretty much proves that the Muslim religious claim of "Jerusalem being sacred" is at the very least not as a sacred as it is to Judaism.

They play soccer in its courtyards, something they would never do at the Kaaba in Mecca. Something religious/orthodox Jews would never dream of doing.

They sit in it and have picnics as if there were no difference between here and a local park.

Theres random acts of vandalism inside the Temple mount, of all places.

All this being the case, it is understandable why Palestinians/supporters would want this video removed. It exposes the central reality that the claim Islam makes toward Jerusalem is factitious. If anyone should have Jerusalem as their capital; it is the Jews. And of all parts of Jerusalem, East Jerusalem (Aka Old Jerusalem; the part with thousands of Jewish/hebrew inscripted tombstones. and sadly was the part where hundreds of ancient synagogues stood - which were systematically destroyed during Jordans occupation of the West Bank (Judea/Samaria). But above all; the Temple Mount, the Zion of Judaism, the place where they turned to 3 times in their daily prayers for over 2000 years of exile, deserves to be returned to the Jews.

This would be such a splendid act of good faith on the part of Muslims. To call two places their most holy; fine. But to arrogate and usurp someone elses religious site; and even now you show complete contempt for that site by allowing soccer playing, and picnics; essentially in religious terms, making a complete mockery of the holiness of the Temple Mount?? And still demanding amidst this foolishness that you have a right to it??

Im sorry. Any just, sensible person can understand how this is wrong.

reply to post by dontreally


From the Video

"When they pray In Jerusalem they point their behind to the Dome of the Rock and the Temple Mount...."

When Facing Mecca Yes??? Because its in that direction from where they are probably?

So what if a Muslim were to pray on the other side of the Temple mount or Dome of the Rock he would be facing it; whilst facing Mecca.

The Video says "An Islamic Holy Site"? Palestinians use the Temple Mount as play ground where they have picnics and play soccer

Isn't the Temple Mount and Dome of the Rock also an Islamic Holy Site?

Wikipedia- Temple Mount

Among Sunni Muslims, the Mount is widely considered to be the third holiest site in Islam

So kids playing soccer probably don't know any better?

From the Video " Deep Down the Palestinians know they are occupying a Jewish holy site, and from time to time they start riots on the Temple Mount."

Establishment Of the State of Israel - Wikipedia

At this time the Jewish population of Palestine was approximately 650,000, the Arab population around 1.2 million.

Ok so the Palestinians are gathering protesting the Zionist State of Israel because they declared in 1948 the land was Israelis land because they did not want to share the land with the 1.2 million Palestinians while there was only 600,000 Jews there.

Many of the Palestinians are upset that the Zionists murdered and forced the Palestinians out of their homes and land over time

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2c7384ea6752.jpg[/atsimg]

No. I don't know how else to say it. Just because people play soccer in an old sacred land does not mean Palestinians should be victims of genocide.

That location of the world is just a S#It-hole made popular by some silly man-made primitive and barbaric savage religious texts that are all a bunch of complete nonsense.

All of those fools over there will never stop fighting over that nonsense land until their foolish and fictional man-made beliefs and superstitions are eliminated.

reply to post by TheUniverse


But apparently they dont do that. it is true, it would make SENSE for them to do that..but they dont. and why dont they? In these photos and that video, they pray directly IN FRONT of the Dome of the rock, with their behind facing towards the Temple mount.

Since religion is laden with symbolism, what would be the symbolic meaning of that action? You would think the soccer playing, picnics and vandalism would allude to what that is. It suggests (to me atleast) that Jerusalem is, atleast relative to Mecca/Medina, of a secondary importance. Or infact, suggests a complete 'turning ones back' on the original, metaphysics of Judaism, in favor of a 'dualistic approach', symbolized by Mecca and Medina.

reply to post by dontreally


This thread does not belong in Middle East discussions: It belongs rather in some religous forum. You have already posted this video, your thread was closed down for lack of content, however I guess you are justified in posting this again. Here is what I said last time:

dontreally your threads are getting more stupid every day: We live in the 21st Century where laws govern people based on rationality. We no longer live in the period of the crusades nor do we live in a period where one has a justification to invade sovereign foreign territory to claim or reclaim ancient holy sites. This is the major factor: Acquisition of territory through war is inadmissable, the security council has confirmed this on a multitude of occasions. Israel should adhere to the principles of law, democracy, co-operation and rationality or admit that they are not a civil adversary but an un-civil adversary.

Untill one can point out how the annexation of Jerusalem is legal under international law, then your stupid religous justification can be completely ignored.

To this you posted some religous philosophy, stating that pagans and non-religous people are ignorant and so forth: You are entiteled to your beliefs however it is my duty to instruct you that the Torah, the Bible, the Quran or any other religous document do not have an binding affects on international law and rightfully so, as both the Quran and the Torah have some violent passages dealing with conflict and some passages advocating racial superiority.

Israeli foreign policy is officialy justified by security concerns not by religion. If Judiasm was institutionalized into policy making like #te Islam has been in Iran, then Israel would be no better then it's enemies. Israel would dictate it's approach to foreign policy along the lines of religion which would inturn conflict with international law as the outcome of Israel's foreign policy would most likely violate international law. For a country that preaches rationality, democracy and secularism, it can not use religous claim as a justification for military occupation and illegal annexation of territory acquierd through war.

I am sorry, you can cite as many of your passages from the Quran, the Torah, the Old Testemant, the Bible, some Rabbi and so forth, but none of those will have binding affects on international law. Israel is part of the UN therefor it must adhere to the UN charter and the legal principles of the orginization. Your argument is nothing more but farts in the wind. If I killed your family and stole you house, then justified it by saying your house is a holy site of my religion, I would be arrested.

Non here claim that Jerusalem is not a holy site of the Jews. What we do claim is that the religous argument has no relevance nor creed in the debate of international law and the question of Jerusalem. Would the fact that East Jerusalem is controled by an Arab state or an International Orginization(partition plan) make Jerusalem any less holy for the Jews? No. As you constantly state, relgion is not confined to within the borders of the modern state.

reply to post by pplrnuts


This is probably not a religious argument you are used to.

Are you aware that the 'silly stories' and 'fairy tales' of the Bible - Torah - are allegory? That there is a Metaphysical, philosophical interpretation of the bible? And this is why it continues to occupy the minds of intellects worldwide, and has done so for thousands of years?

No, of course not. Right? Maybe you dont know a thing about the nature of Myth (a study in comparitive mythology, particularly joseph campbell, or the writings of CG Jung, woul supplement your understanding) and so you think that the point of religion has been in 'galvanizing' and manipulating the masses to do the will of the aristocratic elite. It has been this, and im not denying that. But this is just a manifestation of the CORRUPTION, and misuse of religion; and not all religion is guilty of this either.

It would be hard to say the Jews have been guilty of this (alteast in diaspora times) since they have always been a subservient people. But Christianity and Islam have been thoroughly politicized throughout the ages; and i think that is a genuine aspect of their religious philosophy..after all, Romans distinguishes between two modes; that of G-d/Jesus, which would be the sacred, and "Caeser" ie; the government, which is mundane, and profane. Render unto each that which is his is the message. You divine soul to G-d, your body to the world 'created' by the Caeser. (As a matter of fact, at the time of this writing, Rome was already well known for its corrupting culture, practices and brutality)...

So in anycase, there is a deeper, philosophical, and deeply abstract theology behind the Bible. I dont say this as someone who doesnt know; i do know (not the entire bible of course), and it is completely impossible to deny it when you understand it. But to understand it requires a certain maturity in thought; you have to be aware of the way men are; how we think, the dynamics of our inner processes, our unconscious drives; whats really going on..... The bible makes sense of all this. But to the 'outsider', it is just Adam and Eve, Eve ate the Apple, and mankind fell. It is all mythlike and in symbolic form; and it exists in that form because the processes being described are incredibly abstract. You need to garb it in 'real life', to understand that it is a living process; a continuous occurence in every persons life. So ironically, even though it is myth; it isnt. It is quite real.

reply to post by TheUniverse

So kids playing soccer probably don't know any better?

Do you think Kids can 'randomly' walk into the massive courtyard where the Kaaba sits, without being kicked out by conscious authorities ie; video cameras, security guards??

The rule is this. If you consider something sacred, you treat is as sacred. You put guards around the perimeter, and if you have been to the Temple mount is by no means difficult, and you make sure that those who do come to the area are treating it with an expected level of holiness. Playing games, like soccer, or having picnics, shows the complete opposite.

Originally posted by dontreally

So this video pretty much proves that the Muslim religious claim of "Jerusalem being sacred" is at the very least not as a sacred as it is to Judaism.

They play soccer in its courtyards, something they would never do at the Kaaba in Mecca. Something religious/orthodox Jews would never dream of doing.

They sit in it and have picnics as if there were no difference between here and a local park.

Theres random acts of vandalism inside the Temple mount, of all places.

All this being the case, it is understandable why Palestinians/supporters would want this video removed. It exposes the central reality that the claim Islam makes toward Jerusalem is factitious. If anyone should have Jerusalem as their capital; it is the Jews. And of all parts of Jerusalem, East Jerusalem (Aka Old Jerusalem; the part with thousands of Jewish/hebrew inscripted tombstones. and sadly was the part where hundreds of ancient synagogues stood - which were systematically destroyed during Jordans occupation of the West Bank (Judea/Samaria). But above all; the Temple Mount, the Zion of Judaism, the place where they turned to 3 times in their daily prayers for over 2000 years of exile, deserves to be returned to the Jews.

This would be such a splendid act of good faith on the part of Muslims. To call two places their most holy; fine. But to arrogate and usurp someone elses religious site; and even now you show complete contempt for that site by allowing soccer playing, and picnics; essentially in religious terms, making a complete mockery of the holiness of the Temple Mount?? And still demanding amidst this foolishness that you have a right to it??

Im sorry. Any just, sensible person can understand how this is wrong.

edit on 25-6-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

Seriously?? The only wrong here is trying to use religion to generate more hate. We all are done with that. Please, take a breathe and evolve.

Yea, muslim boys are free to do as they will at religious places, as long as they worship properly and show reverence. Watch a couple episodes of Globe Trekker on PBS and I think you will be pleasantly suprised to see MANY muslim boys playing only inches from their cube.

The really strange thing is why Anglo Saxons, Jutes, Normans ect give a fig about the Middle East.
Where is our God, our religion , oh yes it was crushed by the Christian Romans.
We need to wear armour against both Judaism and Islam, and know our true God/

reply to post by dontreally


You want to ban them from having picnic and play soccer in their own country now? I think Zionists need to go back to where they came from, they are not from Palestine, they forcefully migrated, colonized the place, and used terrorism to justify the creation of Israel through UN. Now they are continuing and expanding their colonialism. But soon time will come when Zionists will be kicked out, not Jews, but Zionists. Let them live in Europe, America and Russia, after all their ancestors came from those lands, not from Palestine. Their ancestors lived in those lands for centuries, Palestinian ancestors lived in Palestine for centuries.

Kids play soccer in and around mosques everywhere. When I went to Saudi Arabia (I was young), to Mecca, I was playing soccer around the Mecca, people were eating around the Mecca, I guess you have never been to Mecca, it is understandable because you are not allowed there, too bad don't you think, that it is US that is keeping that bigot fascist fat King in power which is blocking you from seeing Mecca.

reply to post by dontreally


Patience is a great virtue.....

In the next war we WILL take back all the the Temple Mount and everything that belongs to us.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by dontreally

 

Patience is a great virtue.....

In the next warwe WILL take back all the the Temple Mount and everything that belongs to us.

edit on 25-6-2011 by bluemirage5 because: (no reason given)

You people seriously love WAR, don´t you?? Is the Holy Temple another excuse for your violent behaviour?
Try soccer instead, it´s a lot more fun... believe me.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant

To this you posted some religous philosophy, stating that pagans and non-religous people are ignorant and so forth: You are entiteled to your beliefs however it is my duty to instruct you that the Torah, the Bible, the Quran or any other religous document do not have an binding affects on international law and rightfully so, as both the Quran and the Torah have some violent passages dealing with conflict and some passages advocating racial superiority.

First. If you want the opinion of Judaism, read the interpreters of the Torah; the Rabbis. Dont just look selectively either (like sticking to only certain comments in the Talmud). go through the corpus of religious Jewish literature.

As a matter of fact, it is quite the opposite. Judaism has its philosophica, and so political ideology, and likewise Islam, and likewise Christianity, and likewise the Secular socialist World controllers. Theres is more pagan based; hence the promotion of New Age, Hinduism, Buddhism, Yoga, etc here in the west.

I know how international law works; it works in the favor of those who write up international law. To get around it, however is the tricky part. Those who weild the power are by no means honorable and righteous men, who honor the laws they enact. Sorry. Politics dont work like that, and they probably never have. Liberals strike down non-liberals. And if you go against the liberalizing agenda of society; to force people to regard homo-sexuality as moral, to force us to accept an internationalism (which will degrade into a communistic worldwide police state, no doubt) abortion, sexual devience, and everything else that fits their 'egalitarian' ie; moral relativism, worldview, they impose on us. And you, in your ivory tower, on the team that is winning, is telling me that i and everyone else has to abide by international law? Has Judaism done anything? How many has Judaism killed? How many has secular/socialist movements killed? I think if anyone has a working brain, were better of trusting people who believe in the sacred, and holy, and righteous, then those who deny the holy/sacred, and so we have reason to deny their righteousness (which is often an acting display),.

Israel would dictate it's approach to foreign policy along the lines of religion which would inturn conflict with international law as the outcome of Israel's foreign policy would most likely violate international law.

Well, we know what the bible says. It is going to happen, you and i both know it. Religious Jews will take control of Israel. They will enforce the mosaic law (as interpreted by the Rabbis) and they could possibly also expel all Muslims from the country. After that, they will probably destroy the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa. What will this cause? Not simply an Arab uproar; but a WORLD uproar. The prophecies of the bible will meet the world head on. Israel vs. the nations, as the bible says. Why? Because international law; which is really just a precursor to a veritable world government, has its own agenda and the interests of religious Jews (aswell as fundamentalist muslims/christians) intereferes with that 'humanistic', and frankly frightful agenda,who giving their mendacity could become all those horrific things in Brave New World.

If I killed your family and stole you house, then justified it by saying your house is a holy site of my religion, I would be arrested.

Thats a horrible, and very misleading analogy. The temple mount is 'not anyones home'. Theres a very long, and ancient history to this site. This site has been the focal point of Judaism for millenia. Plus, nobody lives in the Dome of the Rock. No one wll be killed in its removal. I would actually like to preserve it, in that it is a very old and historical part of Islam. In their interests (but in arrogance they will surely refuse) they should want it to be transferred to some other city... But, doubt it will happen. The two mosques, one gold lid, the other silver (theres a very obvious duality in Islamic thought) will be demolished.

Non here claim that Jerusalem is not a holy site of the Jews. What we do claim is that the religous argument has no relevance nor creed in the debate of international law and the question of Jerusalem

Which is why Israel and the nations are bound to clash. The internationalist UN with its paganizing, socialist agenda, vs. the kingdom of Israel, in its nascence...possibly with G-d on their side.

Do not doubt it. It will happen. It is both biblically predicted, and politically realistic.

. Would the fact that East Jerusalem is controled by an Arab state or an International Orginization(partition plan) make Jerusalem any less holy for the Jews? No. As you constantly state, relgion is not confined to within the borders of the modern state.

For one, Jews are not allowed to pray on the holy mount. That is unacceptable. Second, in the terms of Judaism, it is a "Chilul HaShem", desecration of G-ds name, for the Jews to be subjugated like this. After nearly 2 millenia, give back to them what is theirs, and what they have not forgotten or lost zeal for.

reply to post by greenCo


Hey, Messi is my favorite football player but now I might have to reconsider