ATS Was set up by Debunkers = The Greatest conspiracy of all time !!!

reply to post by Desolo


I think our own Skeptic Overlord put it best when he authored this thread

The Rise Of The ATS Invertebrate: or, it takes a spine to be a conspiracy theorist

People are always going to be skeptical. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof and sadly the world of esoteric topics is riddled with charlatans and hoaxers who muddy the waters and make such proof even harder to find.

And while I can kind of see your point that people should be less harsh, lets not forget that ATS is an open discussion forum that welcomes people of all mindsets. To come onto the board and simply expect to be agreed with is absolute folly.

reply to post by neformore


touche !! its just that most the people who comment on my post, not only do they have a different mindset, they seem to have the mindset of a 12year old lady gaga fan!!

reply to post by Desolo


whats wrong with lady gaga

and in reply to Nef

i remember that thread and it pretty much sums everything up, i really think the whole of ATS needs to be reminded of those points SO made

I have a lot of complaints, but I'll just say one complaint in the interest of time and in the hopes that maybe someone will consider it if I keep my message short and sweet:

I am opposed to the interference by moderators - either you debate or you judge (rule) over the debate, you can't have it both ways.

Also, I am sick and tired of the internet in general banning free speech. That is unAmerican.

Originally posted by filosophia
I am opposed to the interference by moderators - either you debate or you judge (rule) over the debate, you can't have it both ways.

You want to censor the moderating staff from having opinions?

And then you go on to decry a lack of "free speech" on the Internet?

That is hypocrisy, is it not?

Also - please note - the internet is not America. The world is a very very big place.

reply to post by filosophia


I haven't fully read this thread but in reply to the "either you debate or you judge" it's obvious that, were a member of staff to partake in a discussion and 'police/action' the thread at the same time, the accusation of a particular bias could be chucked about by anyone who wanted to do so, (valid or not).

That is why moderators do not moderate a thread they are involved in as a member.



I don't use it because I think it's pretty easy to understand when comments are offered from a position of staff and opposed to when they are simply enjoying the site as all other members. I have not noted any situation where I found the distinction difficult to see and I wouldn't consider myself any more insightful than the vast majority of other members here. To me it seems unnecessary for the majority of users and merely panders to those who are desperate enough to resort to such tactics and whom, because of that attitude, I don't think warrant any particular concern being as anyone who wants to throw such an accusation will do so anyway. *Shrugs*


I offer the above from a particular understanding of the comment, reading it as "... either you debate or you judge (rule) over the debate, you can't have it both ways. [at the same time]" as I would hope the suggestion was not that staff simply shouldn't be allowed to enjoy ATS in the same way all other member are able to.

I don't agree with the assertion that ATS was set up by debunkers. ATS was one of the first websites where people from all over the world could come together to discuss collaboratively subjects of common interest. It was a remarkably different website when it was first established than it is today.

I came to ATS because it shared interests that I had. But up until then, I'd only read about UFO's & secret bases in book & magazine form, those being all we had (I know for younger people, the idea of not having the internet must seem really peculiar ... but that's how it was then).

The joy I had surfing the "old ATS" on dialup, I can't describe how happy I was to discover ATS. Not that I registered, or posted here. Dialup, where we had to pay per minute of surfing, was way too expensive to casually hangout here all day, as we do nowadays.

I never once got the impression then, nor have I since, that ATS is debunker heaven. What ATS has acquired, over the years, is an intelligent community of critical thinkers who just don't take things presented to them at face value. That's an enormous resource in itself, it allows the forum to almost "self moderate" when unusual stories, theories & events are presented to them.

And even today, if you look at how the community responds to these new threads, most people are receptive to them, they're interested. They don't damn on their first post, they're asking for more information, they want photos, videos, they want links to other sites. They want to learn & understand ... not to debunk.

For all the fancy trinkets the site has acquired over the years, the greatest resource ATS has is it's membership.

Have a look at The Wayback Machine & some of the screen captures from then.

wayback.archive.org...

Then, the subject matters were very limited, it was then primarily a site for UFO's/ET's and secret defence projects. There wasn't all the political stuff then, no BTS either. Nor was the tone then as hostile as it is today ... it was a genuine community of like minded people. That's my only concern about ATS today, the tone set in the US political debate tends to seep into & poison the rest of the forum. That's a terrible shame.

I'm sorry the OP describes ATS in such terms. I disagree with his claim that ATS was "set up by debunkers". And as for that being "the greatest conspiracy of all time", well, that's just not the case at all, is it ?

Originally posted by OMsk3ptic
"ATS Was set up by Debunkers"

Good, if there weren't debunkers we'd all still be living in the Dark Ages.

Debunkers never contribute anything, only their motivation to prove untrue, anything lying outside their own personal beliefs.

Skeptics on the other hand are needed. There's actually a different between a debunker and a skeptic.. A skeptic is willing to not let his own personal beliefs get in the way of finding the truth.

Originally posted by OMsk3ptic
Debunking is a vital part of gaining knowledge, otherwise every ludicrous claim would be considered fact.

Yea, people are sheep and would believe Santa Claus if we didn't have debunkers to prove it untrue..

reply to post by Desolo

its just that most the people who comment on my post, not only do they have a different mindset, they seem to have the mindset of a 12year old lady gaga fan!!

Ah...

Everyone else are the ones with issues, not you.

Glad to see where you're at.

Hello Desolo,

Nice rant there ! But I will have to disagree with your title and your assumptions.

ATS is a free forum where people from around the world meet and discuss conspiracies of common interests. Being a free mix of people of all sorts of beliefs and personalities calls for moderation within strict measures. You would most surely agree with me that it would be a free for all circus otherwise...I would name a few other conspiracy forums on the internet where it is such a case but I think they would be automatically censored.

Yes, we do have grammar freaks but in minority. Yes, we do have the blind debunker that shoves everything out the window as nonsense but in minority.

I've been here a year and I have learned tremendously. I will admit that pictures and videos aren't totally debunked at all times but if someone uses a bit of common sense, the consensus of people pointing towards a strong possibility as to what it could be is a good start.

I am no longer a gullible believer that feeds on everything I read, hear or see. Thanks to ATS !

Perhaps, just perhaps, ATS is exactly as one person sees it. If so, why not make the best of it?

Originally posted by Desolo
reply to post by neformore

 

touche !! its just that most the people who comment on my post, not only do they have a different mindset, they seem to have the mindset of a 12year old lady gaga fan!!

Perhaps, just perhaps, ATS is exactly as one person sees it.

And this quote of yours would be a shining example...


Friendly food for thought...

Simply put, if all you are looking for is people who believe the exact same thing as you, you are not interested in the truth. You are interested in making friends. That's fine too. But don't come here and complain that the rest of us are using the scientific method.

Without people calling out the BS you'll go nowhere.

This is the trend I've noticed, if everyone doesn't immediately slap your back and tell you how "awake" you are, they are disinfo.

People complain about "free speech" when, in fact, they have no expectation of that here at all. Then those same people, whilst still using the same breath, decide that if you disagree you shouldn't comment. That's just insane.

all you complainers are insane.

sure, some people are fed up with ridiculous claims, and sure, some of them are less than kind in pointing that out. Take it for what it's worth, if you want a closed minded group of "believers" and nothing more, there are plenty of sites out there.

If you are here for truth, suck it the hell up.

What good is a site if all people do is post random stuff, with no evidence or science behind it, and everyone simply agrees and takes it as fact? That's completely useless.

This lead me to a conclusion I posted in a rant way back, most of you aren't here for the truth at all. You are lonely people looking to make contact with other people. The rest of us want answers, and answers require evidence and investigation, which goes beyond giving stars and flags, it requires actual WORK, and SCIENCE.

Originally posted by Mr Mask
I dunno, I like it here. Best site on the net IMHO.

This site is a place for all kinds to openly debate and discuss all sorts of things. People disagreeing with you is a working part of the site, not a flaw within it.

If you want an open soapbox where you can say anything without others saying you are wrong, I suggest you build that site.

ATS was created with debate and discussion in mind...not to be "a place for all things to go unchallenged because you believe something".

Since you openly say you are not "impressed" with ATS, have you considered leaving? Maybe you can make a site yourself, so nobody can disagree with whatever you choose to type? Just trying to help.

MM

edit on 24-6-2011 by Mr Mask because: (no reason given)

I think the OP is speaking less directly about being told hes wrong, and more in the direction of the way hes being told hes wrong. IE, its one thing to be wrong when someone provides contradicting evidence and logic. It is a completely different thing when someone comes into a thread, proceeds to bash it and the OP (and not the information), provide no contradicting evidence, and yells its a hoax.

As for me, this is how I perceive the meaning behind the OP's thread.

reply to post by Desolo


it's slightly refreshing to see a post by a long-time member who has not put themself upon a throne. i'm glad you're sharing that you're angry, its good to vent.

yesterday i read a long post in which they OP asked in the spirit of intellectual debate; "Was Hitler our last savior?". What a pummeling that OP took. For a site that is supposedly for open-minded thinkers many went snap crackle pop immediately to the 'oh noes Hitler bad yer teh Nazis!' rhetoric and posted some really cruel words to the OP.

i don't recall seeing a Mod step in on that thread once, and its a shame. it finally degraded to the point where the OP completely bowed out of the thread. there were a few posts that were intelligent but they got lost in the sauce for the most part. at the end of the thread was an outstanding contribution by an ATS member who obviously was well-read in history. their post was outstanding and i felt a little bad that most people in the thread would never read it.

so i can sympathize with your frustration over ATS.

ATS is similar to FM radio in the New York area. too many Stations try to cater to too wide an audience. sad thing is, when there are jazz-only or C/W only Stations there are really good -- but short lived. i think they get ratings & get bought out. but i digress. my point is: Catering to a wide vast audience is like having an ungrateful bitch mistress. very cruel and demanding, some want this some want that. you can't please everyone all the time.

hopefully tomorrow will be a better day. focusing on likes hopefully will help. hang in there.

Originally posted by Desolo
i once recieved a warning note for writing ....."100'000s" and not expressing myself in a suitable manner in which people could understand me, i was shocked that just because i had wrote, "Hundreds of thousands as a number, the post was under threat of being closed. Well Congrats guys, you've made a forum in which every post has to perfectly placed and perfectly written, where a heated debate immediately gets "Posts removed" and Thread Closed" "1000s (Thousands) of points have been deducted from you"

That's an outright lie. Our staff have done no such thing, nor would they ever.

Originally posted by LargeFries
reply to post by Desolo

 

yesterday i read a long post in which they OP asked in the spirit of intellectual debate; "Was Hitler our last savior?". What a pummeling that OP took. For a site that is supposedly for open-minded thinkers many went snap crackle pop immediately to the 'oh noes Hitler bad yer teh Nazis!' rhetoric and posted some really cruel words to the OP.

This was my very first laugh of the day !! Thanks !!!

"Was Hitler our last savior?"

Between you and me, LargeFries, what would someone putting up a title like this expect?

Just about anything but flowers and praise...

Much like throwing a rock in a bully's face and expect a decent discussion to ensue...not likely to happen...

I heard it is also a government hot bed created by agents to gather information from many individuals. Not saying that is true but if it is sold out to big brother then the owners have definitely gone down the road of being puss toots.

Originally posted by ReverendPritchett
I heard it is also a government hot bed created by agents to gather information from many individuals.

You've just insulted myself and our entire staff.

Not saying that is true

Then why perpetuate a lie?

but if it is sold out to big brother then the owners have definitely gone down the road of being puss toots.

More insults?

So much for "deny ignorance" in your case.

Originally posted by Desolo
I thought this site would be a medium in which one could write about the little coincidences hat seem to inevitably point to the fact that, an evil greedy breed of empathy-less, selfish, self-righeous conglomorate, control the world and have done for a very long time.

What does your most-recent thread have do with your statement? (That thread, by the way, appears to be the inspiration for this rant.)

This is Breaking !!! UFO'S Manchester England NOWWWWW !!!! 00:00 22 June 2011

You must realize, that for ATS members who are truly concerned about the UFO phenomenon and apply serious critical thinking to legitimate sightings, your thread came across as an insulting slap in the face -- a veritable symbol of what is wrong with UFOlogy online.
- excessive exclamation points
- silly exaggerated words
- odd headline syntax
- poor photos with no context or provenience
- - - difficult to obtain photos from a typical source of hoaxes
- exaggerated claim
- minimal information
- angry reaction to reasonable questions

If you're going to do such a poor job presenting evidence for "UFO photos" which you present as the best you've seen in your life, you're going to get an impatient if not irritated response from many people on ATS. It's not their fault, it's yours.

reply to post by Desolo


You know what, that is the exact reason I have never started a thread or want to... I leave a few comments here and there... otherwise I just read and give stars and flag things for my further research in finding out the truth (whatever that may be). Also I suck at my grammar and English... I plan to go back to college but I don't think you need a degree to feel a part of a community where we are all free thinkers and like minded... I don't know thanks for pointing that out so that maybe before someone is quick to judge or be disgusting they think about it first...

BTW I'm not trying to disrespect or insult anyone... I am grateful to this site... everyone also has their own opinion... and there was mine...

Just because a few people are mean? I'm gonna quote Mahatma Ghandi right here:

"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

Just because a few members are asses doesn't mean everyone is.