Please Read This: You Can Make A Difference. The Only Law We Really Need.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by Mister_Bit
In a small community that shares all the same values this idea would work, on a larger countrywide or worldwide scale this is impossible sadly.

Let me just make clear where I am coming from, I am in 100% agreement with your ideals but sadly I think it is a little naive to presume all the criminals out there will roll over and go all "fluffy" to help society because their peers would make them feel bad.

I've discused this idea of an ideal society in other threads and come to the conclusion that being 100% free is impossible, guidelines would always be needed and then again I ask, who writes the guidelines, who enforces them etc etc...

The fact is, you are already 100% free. There are social norms that come from false systems that keep you from commiting certain "crimes", but if it is your will, you could carry it out.

The only guideline is the law of freedom. Logic determines what is an act that limits freedom. Although you are being punished by doing dangerous or unsanitary manual labor as a consequence of your actions, you can keep your happiness and sanity, just not your freedom. So in this case, it is an eye for an eye.

Ok, this is interesting...So, lets play out a scenario....

You're busy in your garden, cooking food for your family, someone comes along and helps himself to your food, your family will go hungry, it's ok, it's not stealing because everything is free... so I come along and suggest this guy shares with you because you are hungry but he calls me an "idiot" for interferring....
But to my "logic" calling me an "idiot" is worse than "stealing" so I go up to him and kill him, in the meantime, someone comes along and rapes your wife, because to his "logic" women are not equals but subserviant to men.

To your "logic" killing someone is wrong, so how do you then control me? How do enforce your ideal and "punsih" me by sending me down a mine, I'm certainly not going to go of my own accord because in my "logic" I've done no wrong....

Can you see how this is all so unworkable?

Originally posted by smithjustinb
As I said, this is not communism or socialism.

Yes, yes it is. If you had gone so far as to read the wikipedia page on communism you might see that even the first sentence says,

Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, and the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate.

Which is exactly what you're describing. Communism is not freedom, it is the belief that man has no right to live for his own sake, that rather than his life and work belonging to him, they belong to society, that the only justification for the individual's existence is service to society.

Even democracy is based on the ideal of freedom, they just managed to screw it up along the way by creating meaningless laws and such.

Freedom cannot exist without individual rights, the rights of a man to his life, to liberty, and to the pursuit of his own happiness. The only system that can protect these rights is capitalism.

Communism is service to the state when in reality is service to a small group of people that call themselves "the state". Thus you have a hierarchy of master and slaves. Ideals in such a hierarchial paradigm are useless because they are hypocritical. The law of freedom eliminates the hierarchies.

Any man who comes to you and tries to take your property away for the good of the people does have a hierarchy in mind, one in which he is the master and you are the slave.

Seriously think about what I'm saying here and what you're arguing against.

I'm arguing against total anarchy and the removal of individual rights.

Anarchy is not freedom and some here have no idea what anarchy actually is. PLus some of you must be real young because you seem to think that a money/currency based society is a new invention. Monetary systems do work... maybe read up on it.

Originally posted by smithjustinb


There isn't no law, there is the law of freedom. It is one law. I do not live the life I speak of because I am subject to and a victim of the current paradigm where these disharmonies do exist. Only a new paradigm such as the one that lives by the law of freedom can eliminate disharmonious ideas such as greed, murder, and theft and perhaps the paradigm could be so effective that there would not even need to be a justice system. Probably not at first, but we have to think long term here. And maybe not. Maybe you would be forced to do some of the dirty and dangerous work that no one else would if it happened that you broke the law of freedom.

Ah Ha!
So you would create laws...therefore making your theory null and void.
You see....laws are a must

Originally posted by Nosred

Originally posted by smithjustinb
As I said, this is not communism or socialism.

Yes, yes it is. If you had gone so far as to read the wikipedia page on communism you might see that even the first sentence says,

Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, and the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate.

Which is exactly what you're describing. Communism is not freedom, it is the belief that man has no right to live for his own sake, that rather than his life and work belonging to him, they belong to society, that the only justification for the individual's existence is service to society.

This is not what I'm describing. I am supporting the law of freedom. The law of freedom leads to communistic ideals w/o sacrificing freedom. The law of freedom is not just about free goods, it is about free will as well. That is the main difference, and in fact, it is more about free will than it is free goods.

Even democracy is based on the ideal of freedom, they just managed to screw it up along the way by creating meaningless laws and such.

Freedom cannot exist without individual rights, the rights of a man to his life, to liberty, and to the pursuit of his own happiness. The only system that can protect these rights is capitalism.

Communism is service to the state when in reality is service to a small group of people that call themselves "the state". Thus you have a hierarchy of master and slaves. Ideals in such a hierarchial paradigm are useless because they are hypocritical. The law of freedom eliminates the hierarchies.

Any man who comes to you and tries to take your property away for the good of the people does have a hierarchy in mind, one in which he is the master and you are the slave.

Seriously think about what I'm saying here and what you're arguing against.

I'm arguing against total anarchy and the removal of individual rights.

How does the law of freedom take away individual rights? As an individual under the law of freedom, you have a right to whatever you please. I am against total anarchy as well.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo

Originally posted by smithjustinb


There isn't no law, there is the law of freedom. It is one law. I do not live the life I speak of because I am subject to and a victim of the current paradigm where these disharmonies do exist. Only a new paradigm such as the one that lives by the law of freedom can eliminate disharmonious ideas such as greed, murder, and theft and perhaps the paradigm could be so effective that there would not even need to be a justice system. Probably not at first, but we have to think long term here. And maybe not. Maybe you would be forced to do some of the dirty and dangerous work that no one else would if it happened that you broke the law of freedom.

Ah Ha!
So you would create laws...therefore making your theory null and void.
You see....laws are a must

No no no you're misinterpreting my meaning.

By "justice system", I meant a system of issuing consequences. Not writing laws that restrict freedom. The only law is the law of freedom. When someone breaks the law of freedom, as punishment it may be necessary to temporarily violate the perpetrators freedom. But not in such a way as to restrict their potential for happiness in the circumstances of the punishment.

Originally posted by Advantage
Anarchy is not freedom and some here have no idea what anarchy actually is. PLus some of you must be real young because you seem to think that a money/currency based society is a new invention. Monetary systems do work... maybe read up on it.

I agree that monetary systems do act as a survival mechanism, but the also initiate greed, positions of power, and a hierarchy. These are all the details of corruption. The problem with them is that the societies that are based around them fail to achieve lasting happiness and harmony.

Communism and socialism also provide a means or survival, therefore they work too. But those systems take away individual freedoms by way of a more concentrated hierarchy. That is few people have control over the majority. The hierarchy of those systems also foster unhappiness and disharmony. Also they eliminate free will more strongly and more strongly breed unhappiness and disharmony.

The law of freedom eliminates hierarchies and allows free will.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
This is not what I'm describing. I am supporting the law of freedom. The law of freedom leads to communistic ideals w/o sacrificing freedom. The law of freedom is not just about free goods, it is about free will as well. That is the main difference, and in fact, it is more about free will than it is free goods.

Slapping the name "Law of Freedom" on it doesn't change the fact that it's either communism, anarchy, or some kind of weird mix of both.

How does the law of freedom take away individual rights? As an individual under the law of freedom, you have a right to whatever you please. I am against total anarchy as well.

Without property rights no other rights are possible. The man who has no right to the product of his efforts has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces for others to dispose of his product, is little more than a slave.

Originally posted by Nosred

Originally posted by smithjustinb
This is not what I'm describing. I am supporting the law of freedom. The law of freedom leads to communistic ideals w/o sacrificing freedom. The law of freedom is not just about free goods, it is about free will as well. That is the main difference, and in fact, it is more about free will than it is free goods.

Slapping the name "Law of Freedom" on it doesn't change the fact that it's either communism, anarchy, or some kind of weird mix of both.

How does the law of freedom take away individual rights? As an individual under the law of freedom, you have a right to whatever you please. I am against total anarchy as well.

Without property rights no other rights are possible. The man who has no right to the product of his efforts has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces for others to dispose of his product, is little more than a slave.

The product of his efforts is the glory and joy of freedom and the accomplishments he's made.

This is not socialism or communism at all. Socialism and communism are hated because they take away individual freedoms. This is the law of freedom, but you can call it w/e you want, the fact is, this is not a system of the past. This isn't really a system at all. This is a law that applies to every aspect of life. It is a law that is seen to be great and is actually respected by society unlike the useless laws of today that limit creativity and production and keep us in a state of anything but free.

The law of allowing freedom goes much deeper than just free consumption. It is a way of life that leads to a state of joy that we all long for. Please, suspend your beliefs for just one second and re-read this with a mindset of acceptance, and you might allow yourself to see the benefits of the law of freedom as I can see them and how it is a flawless plan.

It is flawless because it lets us be our true selves instead of what the system wants us to be. I believe in humanity and I think that we have the power to be truly sovereign and independent of controlling hierarchies.