Antarctica Mysteries Ice free?

hold on here, wait. ALL melted. THIS IS VERY BAD. I will come back on here to tell you why. and give link. why.

Originally posted by cloaked4u
hold on here, wait. ALL melted. THIS IS VERY BAD. I will come back on here to tell you why. and give link. why.

Naa, just a little patch that may be without ice....not the whole bloody thing, else I would be swimming while posting this I imagine (Florida)

Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to post by MAC269

 

I dig this thread.

Just a question, I know nothing of an ice free zone, I have never heard of it.

Could this possibly, if it is real, caused by volcanic means, or some kind of geothermal venting?

Just that one question. I do not have time to research it right now and I mainly wanted to save this in my subscribed threads.

Dear liejunkie01

This is a good point and like as not would be the standard skeptic answer to the riddle.

However if so and it really could be the reason for it why is it secret and why is every geologist not all over it. Why do we not know?

I had the feeling something strange was going on around those sites ever since I first saw something weird on Greenland.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
This is simply a piece of a puzzle

more pieces missing than what is present, and you have no clue what the end result supposed to look like.

Frustrating.

So, lets look at some pieces then.

Nazi's interested in a blonde/blue race of nords with near mystical powers or tech
Reports of nazi's interested in the south pole
allies interest in a super top secret mission to...take pictures of the south pole
strange ufo sightings around that time, debate arises between them being german machines, otherworlders, etc
groom lake goes into weirdness
Plejarian reports here and there, Billy Meirs comes forward to ridicule the whole field
media industry starts a effort to introduce concept of non brain sucking aliens.
little green men turn into short grey men (due to reports more than media)
Weird information about byrd's adventures to cavernous earth and meeting nords (ayrans?)
More reports, sightings, etc...
ATS is born, world rejoices
Spotted potential area that match up to the diarys associated with Byrd/High Jump


I am missing about 500 pieces...but offhand, those ones could at least be made into a story just by itself and take up a 10 part miniseries (starring Dakota Fanning of course)

Dear SaturnFX

Yes lots of pieces missing, but so intriguing asks yourself this why has someone not made a really great movie out of this?

It for sure has all the part to make a really great story.

Originally posted by Aprch
I had the feeling something strange was going on around those sites ever since I first saw something weird on Greenland.

Dear Aprch

So what did you see?

reply to post by MAC269


Dear Mac I posted my info on another thread here on ats hollow earth info

Laid it all out so its easy to read.

The Mars Anomaly Research site.... marsanomalyresearch.com...
has a three part piece about anomalies in Antarctica, including some great photos.

Part 1 marsanomalyresearch.com...

Part 2 marsanomalyresearch.com...

Part 3 marsanomalyresearch.com...

There are a few ice free regions in Antarctica. They are not secret. And just because it's dry doesn't mean it's warm.

Ice-free Antarctic desert to be protected

www.abc.net.au...

This is the region talked about in the OP.

Last week I was in the Bunger Hills, an area of rocky hills not covered by snow or ice, about 20 km across. It's one of the largest ice-free areas in Antarctica, so it's called an 'oasis', where there are some lakes and a few mosses growing on land.

questacon.typepad.com...

Originally posted by Phage
There are a few ice free regions in Antarctica. They are not secret. And just because it's dry doesn't mean it's warm.

Ice-free Antarctic desert to be protected

www.abc.net.au...

This is the region talked about in the OP.

Last week I was in the Bunger Hills, an area of rocky hills not covered by snow or ice, about 20 km across. It's one of the largest ice-free areas in Antarctica, so it's called an 'oasis', where there are some lakes and a few mosses growing on land.

questacon.typepad.com...

Dear Phage

According to the US Navy documentary what they found was warm or at least relatively at a fresh water temp of 38°F and air temp, of 74°F.

Have you taken a look at Google earth lately?

Originally posted by g146541

Yep, with a boat you can have some proof.
Get going and send pics.

I would like to do this. Maybe when I get bored of having a job and being a geologist I can spend my pennies on a boat and go to Antarctica... I actually came to Australia for a chance to work in Antarctica but didn't end up doing it. I guess there could be some places in Ant. similar to Tierra del Fuego or something. But what would make certain patches less cold than others? The first thing that comes to mind is geothermal activity. Or water current flows. You know how in some places around the world there are hot springs in places that are otherwise bloody freezing? Maybe something similar goes on in Ant.?

Or maybe places a smudged out because there might be sensitive military bases there. Good place to hide something. Are any other countries having their satellite pictures that aren't affiliated with U.S. and may show different things to the public?
EDIT: that last paragraph means I have spending way too much time on ATS!

Also Ant. is the driest, windiest place on earth, but things do grow there. It's a lot of interest for astrobiologists, as for geologists, well we have other things to work on mainly, but I'll run it by people at work and see what they think.

reply to post by MAC269

Yes, I've looked at Google Earth. What's your point? I don't find it useful to overzoom images.

In summer it warms up, for a month. Is that a surprise? Most of the time it's very cold, the mean temperature is -11.2ºC. If there is any mystery it's not that the ice melts, it's why it doesn't.

Abstract: The Bunger Hills Oasis (66º15'S; 100°45'E), a large ice-free expanse on the coast of East Antarctica, contains many lakes, only a few of which maintain an ice cover all year. To understand the environmental conditions that allow for persistent ice cover we established an automatic meteorological station on White Smoke Lake, a perennially ice-covered lake in contact with the Apfel Glacier. The data were collected from January 1992-July 1993. The mean annual solar flux during this period was 115 W m-2,the mean wind speed 4.6 m s-1, and the mean air temperature -11.2ºC. Summer degree-days above freezing (71 ºC-days) are similar to regions of the Antarctic (the McMurdo Dry Valleys - 78º45'S; 163ºOO'E) with thick perennial lake ice but the winter freezing degree days (3987 "C-Days) are much smaller and are closer to regions with seasonal ice covers (e.g. the high Arctic). The Bunger Hills Oasis seems to be in a marginal climatic region for the persistence of thick lake ice. Therefore, the extent of glacier ice contact becomes the controlling factor in maintaining an ice cover all year. We propose that this is either through the heat sink the glacier offers, and/or the positive feedback for ice growth provided by the high albedo of the adjacentglacier.

Source

You wonder why scientists don't go there. They do. Didn't you see the link I posted before? Here's another.
www.polar.pan.pl...

Here's more.
i107.photobucket.com...
s107.photobucket.com...
s107.photobucket.com...
schnitzelburgs.livejournal.com...

Earlier I posted

Originally posted by youallcrazy
reply to post by MAC269

 

I'm actually pretty disappointed in the images available on the LIMA site. I can only get TIFF images and the quality is less than the LIMA images that Google uses in spots. I emailed the USGS to see if better images are available but think post office not NWO with the USGS. I might be missing something and if someone with more experience with satellite photos can chime in, might be a different format and a viewer necessary to get best resolution images.

Also sent email to LIMA requesting higher res image of the "saucer" and ice lines from OP article link

edit on 18-6-2011 by youallcrazy because: (no reason given)

crazy that we can get HiRISE images of Mars at 0.5m per pixel and best we can get of Antarctica is 15m per pixel

edit on 18-6-2011 by youallcrazy because: (no reason given)

I sent this email to USGS and LIMA on Friday

I notice on google maps and google Earth that the resolution of the LIMA photos is much better than the downloadable images on LIMA site. Is there any way to get higher quality images like google uses or am I missing something like a viewer? But the TIF/jpg images are not same quality.

They responded Monday morning

I am not too sure where to begin to try to answer your question. Mostly because I am not sure of your needs and I do not know the software you intend to use to view these images, etc.

The LIMA imagery you saw on Google Earth and Google Maps were created by Google from the scenes available from the LIMA web site. They re-projected the LIMA images from Polar Stereographic projection to geographic coordinates. As a result of the re-projection process and resampling, Google lost some image quality. If you download the tiled images from the LIMA site you will have the best quality mosaicked LIMA images. All other LIMA products are created from the original LIMA data.

You may not need or want images this large. The LIMA tiles are 10,000 pixels by 10,000 pixels with each pixel representing square where each side is 15 meters on the ground. These tiles cover and area that is 150,000 meters by 150,000 meters. The downloaded file is in ZIP format and is around 200 MB in size. Unless you have a fast internet connection it will take a while to download the ZIP file. Once "unzipped" there are several files including a TIFF format image. The TIFF image, now 300 MB or larger, is geo-rectified and will display in its correct location when viewed using a Geographic Information System (GIS).

I can view these LIMA images using Adobe Photoshop, Adobe Acrobat and ESRI's Arc GIS software. This is not a commercial endorsement. It is just a statement of the tools I had access to and that they worked.

Without knowing more about your situation, the tools you have at your disposal and products you want to produce, the best thing I can think of is to take you through the process of downloading the high resolution images step by step. If you have additional questions after reading this we'll work on that later.

With a Google search for LIMA USGS I get the site lima.usgs.gov and the first return. Clicking on the link takes me to lima.usgs.gov... On the right column, I clicked on Download Mosaics and Landsat Scenes. What should appear is a web page showing Antarctica and a matrix of pink boxes that delineate the tile boundaries. With the zoom and pan functions I was able to center on an area of interest. Clicking inside one of the boxes initiates the download process and allows users to save images to their local machines. Once saved locally, double clicking on the zip file starts Windows program that extracts the contents of the zip file.

I suspect that these LIMA images will look better to you than the ones you saw on Google.

I hope this helps! Please let me know.

Thanks
Name Removed

So the USGS very prompt and helpful in responding.

However, the tile TIFF image available for download is much lower resolution than the image that google Earth uses for Bunger Hills Oasis and looks like it was taken in winter. Google Earth image is higher res and obviously a summer photo. If you use Google Maps you can see both images, winter and summer. The winter photo is used when completely zoomed out and up until you get to a certain zoom in. Once you zoom in further the summer/higher res photo is used. I emailed USGS again to get clarification and will post when received.

my guess is that newer higher res photos were taken during 2010 Antarctica summer but are not yet available for public download (although available to Google which is slowly adding to Google Maps/Earth).

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by MAC269

 

Yes, I've looked at Google Earth. What's your point? I don't find it useful to overzoom images.

In summer it warms up, for a month. Is that a surprise? Most of the time it's very cold, the mean temperature is -11.2ºC. If there is any mystery it's not that the ice melts, it's why it doesn't.

Abstract: The Bunger Hills Oasis (66º15'S; 100°45'E), a large ice-free expanse on the coast of East Antarctica, contains many lakes, only a few of which maintain an ice cover all year. To understand the environmental conditions that allow for persistent ice cover we established an automatic meteorological station on White Smoke Lake, a perennially ice-covered lake in contact with the Apfel Glacier. The data were collected from January 1992-July 1993. The mean annual solar flux during this period was 115 W m-2,the mean wind speed 4.6 m s-1, and the mean air temperature -11.2ºC. Summer degree-days above freezing (71 ºC-days) are similar to regions of the Antarctic (the McMurdo Dry Valleys - 78º45'S; 163ºOO'E) with thick perennial lake ice but the winter freezing degree days (3987 "C-Days) are much smaller and are closer to regions with seasonal ice covers (e.g. the high Arctic). The Bunger Hills Oasis seems to be in a marginal climatic region for the persistence of thick lake ice. Therefore, the extent of glacier ice contact becomes the controlling factor in maintaining an ice cover all year. We propose that this is either through the heat sink the glacier offers, and/or the positive feedback for ice growth provided by the high albedo of the adjacentglacier.

Source

You wonder why scientists don't go there. They do. Didn't you see the link I posted before? Here's another.
www.polar.pan.pl...

Here's more.
i107.photobucket.com...
s107.photobucket.com...¤t=P1060153.jpg
s107.photobucket.com...¤t=P1060192.jpg
schnitzelburgs.livejournal.com...

edit on 6/20/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Dear Phage

Sorry I did not get a chance yesterday to fully go over those links I will get to it today.

What I meant about Google Earth is the blocked out area over the South Pole. Yes you need to zoom in on it but it looks very strange. Almost as though they are telling you that there is something hidden there.

According to the US Navy documentary the Secret Land admiral Byrd’s team found an area of 300² miles of ice free land with fresh water lakes of liquid water.

I would have kinda expected a big investigation into a phenomenon and for it to have become common knowledge, even for the likes of me.

Anyway I will go and have a look at the links now and thank you for taking part in this thread.

reply to post by MAC269

The region that Byrd was talking about was Bunger Hills. It's not a secret. It's more than 1500 miles from the pole. As I pointed out, the climate has been studied there and it does make a good location for exploration. Being among the most northern parts of Antarctica (north of the Antarctic Circle), in the summer it warms enough for the ice to melt. The rest of the time it is frozen.
en.wikipedia.org...


The reason the south pole looks strange is because Google is trying to make a bunch of flat images (of ice) fit a globe. The result is greater and greater distortion at higher and higher latitudes. If you look at the north pole you'll see the same sort of effect on the sea floor.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by MAC269

 

The region that Byrd was talking about was Bunger Hills. It's not a secret. It's more than 1500 miles from the pole. As I pointed out, the climate has been studied there and it does make a good location for exploration. Being among the most northern parts of Antarctica (north of the Antarctic Circle), in the summer it warms enough for the ice to melt. The rest of the time it is frozen.
en.wikipedia.org...


The reason the south pole looks strange is because Google is trying to make a bunch of flat images (of ice) fit a globe. The result is greater and greater distortion at higher and higher latitudes. If you look at the north pole you'll see the same sort of effect on the sea floor.

edit on 6/20/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Dear Phage

Yes I am certainly being to understand that now.

However on Google Earth you still make no mention of the wall around the South Pole?

I can only describe it as a wall obviously digital with only white in the center.

Does it look strange to you?

reply to post by MAC269

LIMA covers the entire continent except from the South Pole at 90 degrees south to 82.5 degrees south latitude, where Landsat has no coverage because of its near-polar orbit. To provide a continental view, the image above has LIMA 3, 2, 1 overlaying the MODIS Mosaic of Antarctica (MOA).

From the LIMA website

whenever you go from low res to high res, will appear to be a "wall"/plateau

reply to post by MAC269

Do you mean this "wall"? As I said, it's a mapping artifact.

Remember those kids that put that camera on a balloon?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Could that be done over Antarctica?

reply to post by whyamIhere


Sure, but you would need to get near the S. pole first. Antarctica doesn't have currents of air that pass over it from other continents like Europe or Asia do.

flying a plane over would be easier.