Libyan rebels reject election offer

Libyan rebels reject election offer

english.aljazeera.net

Libya's Muammar Gaddafi is willing to hold elections and step aside if he lost, his son has said, an offer quickly dismissed on Thursday by rebels and US officials.

The rebel leadership in the eastern stronghold of Benghazi described the offer as "wasting our time".

"Saif al-Islam is not in a position to offer elections. Libya will have free elections and democracy but the Gaddafi family has no role to play in this process," Jalal el-Gallal, a rebel spokesman, told Reuters.

"These people are criminals, they have utter disregard for human life. They have to withdraw troops from o

(visit the link for the full news article)

I do not understand why the rebels would not accept elections, especially if international observers would be present to maintain transparecy in free, democratic elections:

"They (elections) could be held within three months. At the maximum by the end of the year, and the guarantee of transparency could be the presence of international observers," Saif al-Islam told Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera.

The attitude of the rebels makes me think twice about their "democratic" intentions and their desire to bring freedom to Libya. In any democracy all sides must be represented. If Gaddafi and his loyalists are supressed as a political orginization then Libya is not a democracy just like it is not a democracy if opposition parties are supressed.

The statements of the U.S and the Rebels are rather alarming and to me serve as an indicator that both the U.S and rebels (although not entirely) may have ulterior motives.

The question that should be asked is: "If the State is offering transparent elections monitored by international observers in a democratic manner, then why are the Rebels(who are fighting for democracy) following undemocratic actions by using force to obtain their political objective, rather then accepting elections?".

I do understand that Gadaffi has left resistant sentiment within much of the populace of Eastern Libya, however I am still suprised at their simple justification of rejecting this offer.:

(Comment by rebel representitive)

"These people are criminals, they have utter disregard for human life. They have to withdraw troops from our cities, allow humanitarian aid to reach people, they will face justice for their crimes. Only then we can talk about holding elections."

The U.S has also weighed in saying:

Victoria Nuland, a US state department spokesperson, told reporters at Thursday's daily briefing, "I think it's a little late for that", and repeated the US view that "it's time for [Gaddafi] to go".

So much for bringing freedom and democracy to the developing world.

english.aljazeera.net
(visit the link for the full news article)

The US might have ulterior motives, but Gaddafi definitely does. If he is making that offer, you can be darn sure he'll have it rigged so he can win.

Why would any sane Libyan accept an election offered by Gadaffi? When he steps down, or is removed, and the process takes it's natural course, then maybe they will be accepting...until then, nothing offered would be trustworthy.

Coming from a man that agreed to a cease fire then proceeded to fire into crowds of unarmed rebels, prompting UN action, I would refuse too.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


Why would the rebels reject this? Because the rebels are working for CIA, the West, and they know they would lose any free and fair elections.

This is not a joke anymore, it has been proven that they work for the West, and it has been proven that the West doesn't want peace in Libya:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Kali74
Coming from a man that agreed to a cease fire then proceeded to fire into crowds of unarmed rebels, prompting UN action, I would refuse too.

So how do you know who was in violation of the cease fire?

I'm quiet sick of hearing propaganda being repeated, it is the same B.S propaganda Americans continually repeated even after evidence came to light that no WMD was found, until CURVEBALL himself came forward and said he intentionally lied to force a regime change.

reply to post by EthanT


I have no doubt in my mind that Gadaffi has ulterior motives, however the Rebels, the U.S, the U.N and NATO are in a power position so negotiation would most likely favour them. Therefor the offer of international observers should be taken by the Rebels. The U.N could ensure transparancy of these elections, so what is the garauntee that the U.N (who passed resoultion 1973) would help Gadaffi rig the elections?

They have said for months that any peace deal, including elections, must follow the removal of Gaddafi. They have denied that they are even in contact with the regime; they don't want to be seen to have anything to do with the Libyan government until Gaddafi is gone one way or another.

Accepting a rather feeble offer from Gaddafi’s son would be like accepting that they aren’t capable of what they set out to do. It would seriously piss off the men at the front and the hardline Gaddafi-bashers who are fighting and dying to get rid of him. They may also be having flashbacks from the several times that the regime has called a ceasefire immediately followed by mass murder.

From Reuters:

But Prime Minister Al-Baghdadi Ali Al-Mahmoudi appeared to throw the potential concession into question, saying on Thursday that the leader of the revolution was not concerned by "any referendum."

A visiting Russian envoy said the Libyan leadership had reiterated that Gaddafi's departure was a "red line."

www.reuters.com...

As if any proof was required, it clearly it wasn’t a serious offer. Just a bit of noise from a complete and utter twat in order to provoke a response along the lines of "What's wrong with elections? These rebels are so unfair. I heard that they're all terrorists."

reply to post by Soshh


So let the bombs fall because you can't seem to look at the situation beyond the propaganda they fed you. What an embarrassment.

I understand your point that if rebels accept this offer then they would disappoint their masters. After all, CIA trained and financed these rebels for over 2 decades for the soul purpose of toppling the revolutionary regime of Libya, they failed once, their masters would be insanely pissed if they failed again, which is why US with NATO rushed to save them as they were clearly loosing.

How about post some facts next time. Based on what evidence did you conclude that Qaddafi violated the first ceasefire? I have a video showing rebels shooting at peaceful pro-Libyan regime demonstrators, but all world media cropped the video and claimed that Libyan forces were shooting at peaceful anti-regime protesters.

What a joke that so many are still eating what ever war propaganda lies are thrown at them.

reply to post by confreak


So why don't you post the video??

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant
reply to post by EthanT

 

I have no doubt in my mind that Gadaffi has ulterior motives, however the Rebels, the U.S, the U.N and NATO are in a power position so negotiation would most likely favour them. Therefor the offer of international observers should be taken by the Rebels. The U.N could ensure transparancy of these elections, so what is the garauntee that the U.N (who passed resoultion 1973) would help Gadaffi rig the elections?

Well, he's been making one empty offer after another since this whole thing started. I'm sure this is being viewed as another.

Even if it wasn't an empty offer, as soon as Gdaffi saw he could potentially lose, I'm sure it would become one ... fast!

Also, whatever cities Gdaffi controls are automatic votes for him. And doesn't he still control a heck of a lot.

Bottom line .. nobody takes what this guys says seriously .. he'll do what it takes to stay in power, and anything he says is probably a scheme to do just that.

I'm sure they're thinking ..... why fall for it?

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Why would any sane Libyan accept an election offered by Gadaffi? When he steps down, or is removed, and the process takes it's natural course, then maybe they will be accepting...until then, nothing offered would be trustworthy.

You ever lived in Libya?.. experienced life in the shoes of the average Libyan?.. who are you to decide whats "sane"?.. because I'm pretty sure having Gadaffi in charge is a whole lot more "sane" than being blown into NATO freedom-bits... more sane than allowing US politicians & the federal reserve putting their grubby little hands on Libys resources.. and a hellofa lot more sane than being "helped" like an Iraqi.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by confreak

 

So why don't you post the video??

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


www.abovetopsecret.com...

An election is the only way out, if people think Qaddafi supporters will lay down arms and submit to foreign stooges then you are truly making a mockery of the Libyan revolution and its supporters.

We all know why rebels and West reject elections, because the rebels have no support in Libya, they torture and murder Qaddafi supporters in Benghazi just to keep the place under control.

Originally posted by confreak

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by confreak

 

So why don't you post the video??

reply to post by SpeachM1litant

 

www.abovetopsecret.com...

An election is the only way out, if people think Qaddafi supporters will lay down arms and submit to foreign stooges then you are truly making a mockery of the Libyan revolution and its supporters.

We all know why rebels and West reject elections, because the rebels have no support in Libya, they torture and murder Qaddafi supporters in Benghazi just to keep the place under control.

nice to see people that are paying attention with all the propaganda believing shills around this issue. qadaffi is no saint but the rebles are worst... Alqueda plus and certainly cia funded who have killed more civilians along with their nato allies then quaddafi ever has...

reply to post by confreak


So how do we know those were pro-quadaffi?

Carrying teh green flag? If I was protesting in a pro-Qaddafi area I'd be carrying a green flag too - it is normal for demonstrators to show loyalty to eth country while protesting against politicians - quite common - it would be suicideal to carry the olf monarchy flag!!

Basically all we have is your says so - and who are you that we should believe you??

clearly a pro-qadaffi poster, which is fair enough, but what makes your assertions more accurate than rebel assertions??.

Your information is just as unreliable as you accuse the pro-rebel MSM as bbeing - you provide no actual verification, just asseertion.

You are as much propaganda as anyone.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


i'm afraid OP all this qadaffi [insert acting as supreme leader of libya] did this is BS

he doesn't rule the country



Libya False Flag -part 1: Reuters Hoax EXPOSED www.abovetopsecret.com...
truthfrequencynews.com...
World Cheers as the CIA Plunges Libya Into Chaos www.informationclearinghouse.info...

How was Libya doing under the rule of Gadaffi? How bad did the people have it? Were they oppressed as we now commonly accept as fact? Let us look at the facts for a moment.

Before the chaos erupted, Libya had a lower incarceration rate than the Czech republic. It ranked 61st. Libya had the lowest infant mortality rate of all of Africa. Libya had the highest life expectancy of all of Africa. Less than 5% of the population was undernourished. In response to the rising food prices around the world, the government of Libya abolished ALL taxes on food.People in Libya were rich. Libya had the highest gross domestic product (GDP) at purchasing power parity (PPP) per capita of all of Africa. The government took care to ensure that everyone in the country shared in the wealth. Libya had the highest Human Development Index of any country on the continent. The wealth was distributed equally. In Libya, a lower percentage of people lived below the poverty line than in the Netherlands.

How does Libya get so rich? The answer is oil. The country has a lot of oil, and does not allow foreign corporations to steal the resources while the population starves, unlike countries like Nigeria, a country that is basically run by Shell.

Like any country, Libya suffers from a government with corrupt bureaucrats that try to gain a bigger portion of the pie at the cost of everyone else. In response to this, Kadaffi called for the oil revenue to be distributed directly to the people, because in his opinion, the government was failing the people. However, unlike the article claims, Kadaffi is not the president of Libya. In fact he holds no official position in the government. This is the big mistake that people make. They claim that Kadaffi rules over Libya when in fact he doesn't, his position is more or less ceremonial. He should be compared to a founding father.

The true leader of Libya is an indirectly elected prime-minister. The current prime-minister is
Baghdadi Mahmudi. Calling Khadaffi the leader of Libya is comparable to calling Akihito the leader of Japan. Contrary to what your media is sketching, opinions in Libya vary. Some people support Gadaffi but want Mahmudi out. Others want both out. Many just want to live their life in peace. However, effort is taken to sketch the appearance of a popular revolt against the supposed leader of Libya, Gadaffi, when in fact he is just the architect of Libya's current political system, a mixture of pan-Arabism, socialism, and Islamic government.

Are the protesters in Libya comparable to the protesters in Egypt and Tunisia? Not at all. The governments reaction is more violent, and obviously excessive violence is being used. However let us look for a moment at the actions of the protesters. The building of the the general people's congress, the parliament of Libya, was put on fire by angry protestors. This is comparable to protesters putting the United States Capitol on fire. Do you think that for even a moment the US government would sit idly by as protesters put the US capitol on fire?


Great Britain funded an Al Qaeda cell in Libya, in an attempt to assassinate Gadaffi. The main opposition group in Libya now is the National Front for the Salvation of Libya. This opposition group is being funded by Saudi Arabia, the CIA, and French Intelligence. This group unified itself with other opposition groups, to become the National Conference for the Libyan Opposition. It was this organization that called for the "Day of Rage" that plunged Libya into chaos on February 17 of this year.

It did this in Benghazi, a conservative city that has always been opposed to Gadaffi's rule. It should be noted that the National Front for the Salvation of Libya is well armed. In 1996 the group tried to unleash a revolution in the eastern part of Libya before. It used the Libyan National Army, the armed division of the NFSL to begin this failed uprising.

Why is the United States so opposed to Gadaffi? He is the main threat to US hegemony in Africa, because he attempts to unite the continent against the United States. This concept is called the United States of Africa. In fact, Gadaffi holds all sorts of ideas that are contrary to US interests. The man blames the United States government for the creation of HIV. He claims that Israel is behind the assasination of Martin Luther King and president John. F. Kennedy. He says that the 9/11 hijackers were trained in the US. He also urged Libyans to donate blood to Americans after 9/11. Khadaffi is also the last of a generation of moderate socialist pan-Arab revolutionaries that is still in power, after Nasser and Hussein have been eliminated, and Syria has aligned itself with Iran.The United States and Israel however have no interest in a strong Arab world. In fact it seems that elementary to the plan is bringing Libya to its knees through chaos and anarchy. In late 2010, the United Kingdom was still propping up the Libyan government through lucrative arms sales. Nothing is a better guarantee to destroy Libya than a bloody civil war. The tribal system that is still strong in Libya is useful to exploit to generate such a war since Libya has historically been divided into various tribal groups.

This is also why the Libyan government responds by importing mercenaries. Tribal allegiances go before allegiance to the government, especially in Benghazi, and thus the central government has no control over the eastern part of the country anymore. The alternative to mercenaries is a conflict between the various ethnic groups. Gadaffi has tried for 41 years to make the country more homogeneous, but opposition groups funded by outside forced will take little more than a few days to put the country back into the 19th century, before the region was conquered and unified by Europeans. The violence is indeed excessive, but everyone seems to forget that the situation is not the same as in Tunis and Egypt. Tribal ties play a far greater role, and thus the conflict will unfortunately be bloodier.

recommended reading:

Virtually unknown in the West: Libya's water resources. The real reason for toppling Quadaffi? www.abovetopsecret.com...

Libya: British plans to strip Gaddafi of oil revenue www.abovetopsecret.com...

2 excellent threads that cut trough the BS by ATS member Boondock-Saint:

Obama provides air cover for terrorists who killed Americans in Iraq, www.abovetopsecret.com...
Gadhaffi funded Sarkozy's French Presidential Campaign?? www.abovetopsecret.com...

Kissinger plan to transform North Africa and Middle East into Turkmenistan forum.prisonplanet.com...
depopulation_linked_merck_pharma_announces_africa_plan www.infowars.com...
Kissinger :
www.schillerinstitute.org...

The Cursed Memo itself wlym.com...


PROPAGANDA is a weapon of war and not just political control, people, and many seem to be the losers on these Libya threads.

not to mention the bots,dupes and disinfo-spreaders both conscious and unconscious, and those who want to show everybody that they "know" when all their doing is repeating something they were told.

the last thing the West wants is a United Africa, no more cheap or nearly free resources and no more toxic waste dump[Somalia] and no more bio-warfare testing on the continent of the greatest human genetic variability, if that should happen.

TCOTBIP have been planning to commit genocide in Africa for a very long time

the rebels are a bunch of babies their losing my respect by the min,F that i didn't even know and or care that they were fighting still if it wasn't for this thread

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Are you just testing me, or is this a joke?

Green is the revolutionary flag, and not the Libyan flag. Here is a picture:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5a012cfb2980.jpg[/atsimg]

According to your skepticism in defense of MSM, you claim the demonstrators might not be pro-Libyan regime after all, they might be anti-Libyan regime, but pretending to be pro-Libyan regime so that they might not get shot at

Sometimes denial can help you sleep at night.

reply to post by confreak


I know what the green flag is - it is the flag of the Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya - which is the Libyan state led by Muamar Qadaffi.

So why should we believe your proapaganda any more than anyone else's propaganda?