The difference between Past Immigration and New Immigration.

reply to post by NeoAstra


You may not be singing songs of protest, but i damn sure know your Irish ancestors were if they immagrated in the 1800s. Irish at the time were the dogs in this country, much the way you see mexicans. Free Blacks were were treated better than the Irish and given better jobs than the Irish in a time of Black slavery in America, did you know that?

They came here by the thousands to work in servitude to escape neglect and famine. Many died along the way and more died from neglect from the American business machine that gave them dirty water and spoiled food to eat. America opened its arms to them not because we love helping people, but because we knew we could use them untill they could not be used any more, mostly on moving land for railroads. The only advantage the Irish really had is that they already spoke the language. And if you think they didnt sing songs of protest and anger over this, you have clearly never heard any old irsh folk music.

2 immigrants with a birthrate of 4 will produce 120 children in 80 years.
20 million immigrants with a birthrate of 4 will produce 1.2 billion children in 80 years.

Originally posted by TheInterceptor
reply to post by NeoAstra

 

You may not be singing songs of protest, but i damn sure know your Irish ancestors were if they immagrated in the 1800s. Irish at the time were the dogs in this country, much the way you see mexicans. Free Blacks were were treated better than the Irish and given better jobs than the Irish in a time of Black slavery in America, did you know that?

They came here by the thousands to work in servitude to escape neglect and famine. Many died along the way and more died from neglect from the American business machine that gave them dirty water and spoiled food to eat. America opened its arms to them not because we love helping people, but because we knew we could use them untill they could not be used any more, mostly on moving land for railroads. The only advantage the Irish really had is that they already spoke the language. And if you think they didnt sing songs of protest and anger over this, you have clearly never heard any old irsh folk music.

Lol i love the way you just assume things about me.
And i dont understand your correlation of white irish immigrants and illegal mexicans here in the country
the irish immigrants were legal so they had every damn right to protest and sing songs.
i know you yourself dont know "for damn sure" that they did that, because you werent there.
and i dont see mexicans as "dogs" either, i know many legal immigrants who have worked their ass of to get here, and i dont see the illegals as dogs either, i understand they are trying to get to a better life, but as i said countless times before, if they take it for granted thats the issue.

I'd appreciate it if you didnt shove words into my mouth in my own thread just for the sake of getting your point across, it makes you look ignorant.

oh and this is the 21st century, the illegal mexicans have no right to complain or protest because we arent living in the same times as you are comparing them to, i dont see us throwing rocks at them, or spitting on them in public, or sending them to war. we arent allowed to.
THATS what the old folk songs are about. the persecution and treatment of them
as far as im concerned, seeing a new cadillac escalade with 24" rims, welfare, foodstamps, basically guaranteed jobs at some industries, thats pretty damn good treatment.
, if they dont like it, they can jump back over the border.


And as i said before it isn't just about mexicans. do you actually bother reading what i post?

Today we are forced to be bilingual and speak english and spanish in order to get hired in many places. Immigrants of the past learned and spoke our language. Even those who do know english tell you you 'have' to learn spanish. Um, excuse me? I didn't leave my country, you left yours.

reply to post by NeoAstra


I wish to comment a bit on the original post...

"It seems they want to stay true to their nationality, yet get all the benefits that america has to offer
Like Welfare
Food Stamps
Healthcare."

Reminds me of the quote "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" the way you put it.

Although I sympathize with immigrants and low income citizens' needs, wants, dreams... no I don't think that excessive handouts and socialist-type USA is cool. Doesn't motivate able bodied people to work harder and be self-sufficient. Takes away benefit $ from the folks who really need it such as disabled and elderly, the running out social security. But then again USA could cut back on the military spending and wars the citizens don't want.

Anchor babies, having huge families and taking multiple wives- getting more welfare to support these lifestyles which don't involve responsible family planning based on earned income and/or maintaining a harem for religious or whatever reason. It bogus that USA or UK supports these values with taxpayer $ that are not what our cultures are about or what the majority of people want, yeah that's annoying. White birth rates are 1-2 per family USA/UK and the current "minorities" 3-6+ so yes it is true, they will be majority in the near future.

I think national pride and culture from one's home place is totally awesome. I happen to be a big fan of mexico and spain. I proudly claim my heritage also. I can see why to support a sense of nationalism and no it's not racist, purely to maintain existing ethnicity, values, traditions, more. I totally think that it ok to want to preserve what a country and it's people are about. I consider myself nationalist but sympathetic to the human plight, like starvation and refugees in danger. Which brings me to your comment "I have no pity..."

"and it is only hurting us as a people
I have no pity for those that come here and use this land for what it has, yet at the same time spout their national pride all over the place"

I don't see how immigrants ONLY hurt us, there are good and bad sides. Perhaps if the illegals were at the least allowed car insurance that would cause less harm. Legal or not, many of them do work that many whites will not do even if jobless, such as pick vegetables, hard labor construction, restaurants. Could be argued that they aren't all using the land but being used, yes there are instances when they get taken advantage of, if their employer screws them out of pay there is nothing they can do about it. Yep, the immigrants come over here, put themselves in the position but they sure must be desperate.

If anyone feels like actually befriending and getting to know a 1st or 2nd generation mexican-american, for instance, they are generally very friendly, hard-working, honest and generous. Not at all like some of the more americanized ghetto minorities, the ones who act like hard gang bangers. They mostly want to learn english so cut them a break. And I like learning spanish, a white american in southern california here who thinks it's great to have 2 languages in a region. Why do people think it's so bad about spanish in the southwest but say nothing of french in the deep south&canada or other regional languages?

"An example was the Mexican Protests that occurred in the late 2000's
I remember being in high school and watching all these mexican kids fly a mexican flag across from the school, and stomp around not going to class"

Well they may have stomped around and ditched school but there wasn't any violence was there? I'm not sure which incident you are talking about because there have been many demonstrations over the illegals, executions, drugs...

"but i damn sure know they went to a decent home and had food that night.
all because we let their parents in illegally, yet they were born here and they love mexico so much??"

How would you know that? Some people that come here to work live in a shack on a hill. I know because I've been hiking in random hills in San Diego county and have seen the way these extremely poor people get by. Seriously, shanty towns/settlements in the hills and bushes.

Again, it is wrong to assume everyone's parents got in illegally. Maybe they came over before USA put such a strict limit on legal mexicans & south americans.

"and i remember the whole deal was over some immigration law that had passed here in the south!!!"

Do you mean that the protest was over the Arizona SB 1070 law?

"This isnt just going on with mexicans, ive noticed alot of middle eastern immigrants and somali immigrants doing the exact same thing, not on par with the school protests, but they dont seem to care for our customs, our ways of life and try to adapt their own into our society, and get angry when we dont offer them higher than minimum wage at a meat packing plant."

While I agree that immigrants ought to try to assimilate to American ways and that we shouldn't change much for them, like over PC-ness in the media. As long as they don't try to press their ways on others does it matter if a person likes their own culture and traditions better than another way? That's freedom of individuality, maybe a reason they came here.

Haven't you seen "fast food nation" ? I'd be mad as hell too making minimum wage for a job like that. And for what, so americans get fat on hamburgers?

"this is saddening,

Past immigration - the want to become an american and work hard for your living and live the American dream

New immigration - The want to come to america to receive more federal aid from the government than a natural born citizen, whilst keeping your national pride at the top of your priority list. "

Sure, since welfare started there will be people that take advantage. That doesn't mean that there aren't good honest ones that have american dream, I've known tons of them! More than any free-loaders I've come across. And sharing is caring... can't blame mexicans for wanting to live in what some view as their alta california and texas. There's plenty of room and hard work to do, can't we all just get along?!

Honestly, I tend to think it's far more a problem lately in the UK than in America, first off it is tiny compared to our country. At least most of our immigrants show some respect and actually do hold down jobs instead of get free houses while bad mouthing their host country. Here the wannabe americans have to try so hard to get green cards, keep those or become citizens. They can't cause much trouble at all or get kicked out. UK they let them pour in past 15 years in exchange for oil and weapons, so now we have "Londonistan" the halal meat in supermarkets, censoring free speech criticism of islam and media removing pictures of pigs or puppies. They can make threats, burn UK, USA flags, cause hate but the police do nothing but watch. White man burned koran and gets 70 days in jail, the punishments are imbalanced&unfair.

For the few haters and troublemakers we do have, america perhaps needs treason laws like the UK (although they don't enforce!) Ok to constructively criticize or peaceful protest but making violent threats or actions against this country, leaders, stirring up hatred whether it be burning american flags, inciting racist or religious hatred - jail or deport them. Burn union jack, threaten royals, condone terrorists (to name a few) in the UK while accepting handouts and free council house- jail, cut benefits or deport.

UK Labour let in 3m immigrants article-

www.dailymail.co.uk...

reply to post by moogle


" Legal or not, many of them do work that many whites will not do even if jobless, such as pick vegetables, hard labor construction, restaurants."

That is a lie! Do you really think a white person would allow their families to starve? Give me a break!
Illegals are NOT just doing the jobs that Americans of any color will not do. They have displaced millions of citizens in the workforce. Every time ICE deports thousands of illegles, thousands of citizens quickly take those jobs!

Many of our citizens have done the jobs that you mentioned above, and the illegals are in many other areas of the workforce as well. They are driving wages down everywhere. Illegals will do the jobs at sub standard wages. We do have minimum wage laws here, but companies prefer slave wages and taking advantage of the illegal.

reply to post by NeoAstra


why do you assume the Irish are all legal. Or do you just not care if they are illegal

There are an estimated 50,000 Irish illegal immigrants in the U.S.; 30,000 of them are thought to live in New York City. Today, this tiny corner in the northern reaches of the Bronx is perhaps the most heavily Irish-born neighborhood in New York, and advocates believe that as many as 40% of local immigrants are undocumented

.

link

www.latimes.com...

It just pisses me off when all of these Irish come to this country and try to have a better life! arg!

if you are wondering why i think you are just racist against mexicans, try reading your posts yourself. or is it just brown people in general you want out of the country? sorry if i got confused.

Originally posted by TheInterceptor
reply to post by NeoAstra

 

why do you assume the Irish are all legal. Or do you just not care if they are illegal

There are an estimated 50,000 Irish illegal immigrants in the U.S.; 30,000 of them are thought to live in New York City. Today, this tiny corner in the northern reaches of the Bronx is perhaps the most heavily Irish-born neighborhood in New York, and advocates believe that as many as 40% of local immigrants are undocumented

.

link

www.latimes.com...

It just pisses me off when all of these Irish come to this country and try to have a better life! arg!

if you are wondering why i think you are just racist against mexicans, try reading your posts yourself. or is it just brown people in general you want out of the country? sorry if i got confused.

edit on 10-6-2011 by TheInterceptor because: (no reason given)

you must have gotten very confused
i mention the "brown people" just as an example, not even intending for them to all be of a brown heritage?
lol way to call me out.

30,000 irish illegals are nothing compared to the millions that are here illegally from mexico"
and if the irish are illegal then im angry at them as well.
I was using the mexicans as an example because thats how it is here.
i grew up in a town where my school was 83% mexican
you want to talk about a race issue, i was called white boy my entire childhood
lol, im not racist towards the ones that do the right thing to get here and work here, just the ones that come and work here and take our tax dollars.
i have lots of hispanic and black friends, and even some middle eastern, so why would you consider me racist towards the "brown people" maybe you should think about removing that label from your mindset and consider all people as equal, when you classify them as separate then they are separated in your mind.
simply put.

reply to post by Night Star


Yes, I was trying to say that the illegals and new immigrants will do jobs at sub-standard wages but they too have hardships, worse than ours BUT from what I know of, the citizens who previously had better pay will be on welfare and job placement as long as it is allowed OR go back to school (which welfare doesn't count as work?!) before resorting to labor in a fast food joint, in a field picking things. If someone has a family to support, I don't debate you that the pressure to pull income by any way possible, it overrides previous job conditions, standards, experience. Just to scrape by, I get it.

I understand where u are coming from but ummm... have u ever even met an illegal worker or suspected one? They are more rare than u may think, especially the past few years. Blame the govt, blame companies that make cars, electronics, customer service, for outsourcing tech positions that paid ok. Not the lil guys from mexico and south america who come here to pitch in on hard labor and take the wrath&blame for the unemployment. Ask Obama why the vast majority of jobs aren't private sector, why are they McDonald's and government positions?!

Thank you for quoting me and responding "Night Star" I respect your opinion and appreciate the input.

Peace out

Originally posted by moogle
reply to post by Night Star

 

Yes, I was trying to say that the illegals and new immigrants will do jobs at sub-standard wages but they too have hardships, worse than ours BUT from what I know of, the citizens who previously had better pay will be on welfare and job placement as long as it is allowed OR go back to school (which welfare doesn't count as work?!) before resorting to labor in a fast food joint, in a field picking things. If someone has a family to support, I don't debate you that the pressure to pull income by any way possible, it overrides previous job conditions, standards, experience. Just to scrape by, I get it.

I understand where u are coming from but ummm... have u ever even met an illegal worker or suspected one? They are more rare than u may think, especially the past few years. Blame the govt, blame companies that make cars, electronics, customer service, for outsourcing tech positions that paid ok. Not the lil guys from mexico and south america who come here to pitch in on hard labor and take the wrath&blame for the unemployment. Ask Obama why the vast majority of jobs aren't private sector, why are they McDonald's and government positions?!

Thank you for quoting me and responding "Night Star" I respect your opinion and appreciate the input.

Peace out

Yes I have worked with MANY illegals. Once they trust you they come right out and tell you so. I have learned much from them and was shocked. Many of the women had jobs and lied to welfare saying they were a one income household when in reality they were not. They made well above the poverty limit and had no right to recieve those benefits. They paid big bucks for false documents or stolen identities or whatever and said it was quicker that way than to come here legally. Some said they had no intentions of ever becoming legal. They were saving money and intended on returning to their countries. Our money is worth so much more in their country. Some said that America was stupid and they got a lot more by being illegal. I was shocked at how many quickly and easily screwed the sytem.

I also watched as many citizens tried to apply for a job while an illegal was hired instead. I couldn't believe it! And once our company up and moved away and I was searching for work, I was shocked once again to see jobs where we were required to be bilingual and speak english AND spanish! The more I learned about illegals and their afect on us, the more I fought against it. Millions of our citizens out of jobs while an illegal can just waltz in and take it away. We have poor citizens who are struggling and suffering and no foreigner should come before them.

We DO blame the government and greedy corporations! Finally some States are getting somewhere in their fight.

Immigration Myth and Realities Quiz

Not the first time people complain about immigrants not speaking English.

The Legendary English-Only Vote of 1795 This isn’t the first time that Americans have argued about whether English-only should be the law of the land. Dennis Baron delves into the origins of the myth of an early move to outlaw German and relates more recent measures to discourage bilingualism, including by the U.S. Constitution.

www.pbs.org...

Furthermore, I fail to understand why many Americans fear that the English language will become extinct. No where close to it. If the English language is disappearing then why are countries all around the world encouraging English as a second language? And why do about 97% of Americans speak English?

Supporters of the [English-Only measures] say that English forms the glue that keeps America together. They deplore the dollars wasted translating English into other languages. And they fear a horde of illegal aliens adamantly refusing to acquire the most powerful language on earth. On the other hand, opponents of official English remind us that without legislation we have managed to get over ninety-seven percent of the residents of this country to speak the national language.

www.pbs.org...

According to the 2000 U.S. Census, more than 97% of Americans can speak English well, and for 81% it is the only language spoken at home.

www.culture-cultures.com...

English won't be extinc, no. With immigrants from all over the world who have come here legally and have learned english, there is no reason they should have to learn spanish as well. English is the one language that ties us all together. Never before have we had to learn a foreign language to get say a simple factory job. With the overwhelming numbers of spanish speaking illegals, we are now required to speak 'their' language for some jobs. That is a shame! We didn't leave our country, they left theirs.

I would never move to another country illegally and expect them to speak my language. I would never expect a company to demand that their workers speak my language because I refused to lean theirs. I suck at languages anyway. lol

The point is that many people all across the USA can't find a job, and now if they do they have to speak a foreign language in some instances. That is not right. All our Africans, Asians, and all other foreign speaking immigrants have learned and speak english. The spanish speaking immigrants shouldn't be any different.

When I had my last job we had numerous languages spoken and when in a group they always spoke english out of respect, knowing that everyone understood. The spanish speakers would only do so when they felt like it. I found that disrespectful.