The difference between Past Immigration and New Immigration.

Okay, so i was talking to my mother (im 21, shes 51) last night and she was explaining to me how immigration over the past 40 years has changed
she said "she can remember Immigrants actually wanting to come to america to be AMERICANS and work for what they had, and now it seems they want to stay true to their nationality, yet get all the benefits that america has to offer
Like Welfare
Food Stamps
Healthcare.

and it is only hurting us as a people
I have no pity for those that come here and use this land for what it has, yet at the same time spout their national pride all over the place

An example was the Mexican Protests that occurred in the late 2000's
I remember being in high school and watching all these mexican kids fly a mexican flag across from the school, and stomp around not going to class
but i damn sure know they went to a decent home and had food that night.
all because we let their parents in illegally, yet they were born here and they love mexico so much??
and i remember the whole deal was over some immigration law that had passed here in the south!!!


This isnt just going on with mexicans, ive noticed alot of middle eastern immigrants and somali immigrants doing the exact same thing, not on par with the school protests, but they dont seem to care for our customs, our ways of life and try to adapt their own into our society, and get angry when we dont offer them higher than minimum wage at a meat packing plant.



this is saddening,

Past immigration - the want to become an american and work hard for your living and live the American dream

New immigration - The want to come to america to recieve more federal aid from the government than a natural born citizen, whilst keeping your national pride at the top of your priority list.

Mods: please feel free to move this as I did not know which forum to post under, thanks.

Hope this is the right thread, do not want to delete the post again.




Now I know I am going to be decimated for saying this but who cares.

Question; around what time would you argue that immigration into the United States lost its more ‘I am glad to live in this country’ feel? Would you say starting shortly after 1965?

If you would say that immigrants to this country prior to 1965 were more easily assimilated and proud to be American while those who began to immigrate here after 1965 were less easily assimilated and not so proud to be American then perhaps you would like to research the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965.

In effect what the bill had done was end the immigration reforms passed through Congress in 1924 under Calvin Coolidge which created the ‘melting pot society’ in favor of open border immigration. Prior to 1965 it was extremely difficult for any persons not from Western countries (i.e. Europeanized) to immigrate here and become citizens. Basically 90%+ of our immigrants in the 20th century before 1965 came from Europe, particularly Northern and Western Europe.

You could then argue that the lack in patriotic and assimilative immigrants is due to the new immigration rules which made it that more non-Westerners immigrated here than Westerners. Which by acknowledging that places you in direct opposition to the politically correct crowd as that would be utter racism.

I like your thoughts on this...

What you are stating is relatively true.
Immigration before was to start a new life and become AMERICAN!
Now it's to keep their nationality and send money back to their country.

But when you have a gov't more focused on waging war for oil than protecting its citizens...
You have problems.


Very touchy subject though...as not ALL immigrants are bad.
Some people do want to come here and try to "make it".

Originally posted by Misoir
Hope this is the right thread, do not want to delete the post again.




Now I know I am going to be decimated for saying this but who cares.

Question; around what time would you argue that immigration into the United States lost its more ‘I am glad to live in this country’ feel? Would you say starting shortly after 1965?

If you would say that immigrants to this country prior to 1965 were more easily assimilated and proud to be American while those who began to immigrate here after 1965 were less easily assimilated and not so proud to be American then perhaps you would like to research the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965.

In effect what the bill had done was end the immigration reforms passed through Congress in 1924 under Calvin Coolidge which created the ‘melting pot society’ in favor of open border immigration. Prior to 1965 it was extremely difficult for any persons not from Western countries (i.e. Europeanized) to immigrate here and become citizens. Basically 90%+ of our immigrants in the 20th century before 1965 came from Europe, particularly Northern and Western Europe.

You could then argue that the lack in patriotic and assimilative immigrants is due to the new immigration rules which made it that more non-Westerners immigrated here than Westerners. Which by acknowledging that places you in direct opposition to the politically correct crowd as that would be utter racism.

ahh okay, i see what you're saying, but i dont understand how racism comes into play.

reply to post by NeoAstra

Might it also be safe to say the more recent immigrants are more culturally dissimilar than before, therefore the assimilation process is going to take longer? In the Canadian experience, by and large the first-born generation of immigrant parents is more than eager to become 'westernised'...note the derision with which FOB are greeted. (Fresh Off the Boat).
Some folks are just nervous these days because immigrants tend to be brown. Best get over it.

I live in southern califonia and we have a bad problem with illegals down here. I agree something needs to be done about it but i dont like the fact that you get pissed off about these kids being proud of their culture. I know a lot of Irish people that were born here and love being irish. some get shamrock tattoos and celebrate irish holidays. Do you feel the same way about them being proud about who they are? no, i am guessing not. These kids are not saying "we are mexicans and we wish we were in mexico so screw you america", although that is how you are acting. They are allowed to have flags of their heritage and they are permitted to do this because of the constitution of the country they live in, the USA.

I dont even blame the government any more for the illegal immigration problem we have. i blame americans. Business owners are greedy and they love to hire people for lower wages if possible. If americans did not hire illegal immigrants and GIVE them the life that they have here then their brothers, sisters and children would not continue to come here and risk their lives for a better one.

Coming from a family of immigrants who came here legally I have to say I'm already assimilated I just have a problem with illegals since it is they that are the problem. My family came here to be Americans and learned to speak English.

reply to post by NeoAstra


Some could label you me a racist for what I had said. Why? Because I said that many of those new immigrants that you are referring to who are neither assimilative nor patriotic began immigrating here after 1965 immigration bill which started the shift of immigration away from Western (White) to non-Western (non-White) so that could be labeled racist for pointing that out.

Most Americans do not understand the complexity of legal immigrants, so much headache, paperwork, money is involved just to keep your status legal here. Most Americans who know legal immigrants' problems are immigration attorneys and lawyers. I bet you did not even know that people on non permanent working visa H1B is allowed 3 years to work and cannot be fired/quit/doing free lance work. So yes most immigrants do try to come here legally then you get slammed with these crazy rules and laws that even USA born english speaking university professors dont even understand the paperwork and yet you want these non native english speakers to understand the laws on how to stay legal? It is pretty damn complicated, if you thought doing taxes by hand was complex, try immigration paperwork.

Originally posted by TheInterceptor
I live in southern califonia and we have a bad problem with illegals down here. I agree something needs to be done about it but i dont like the fact that you get pissed off about these kids being proud of their culture. I know a lot of Irish people that were born here and love being irish. some get shamrock tattoos and celebrate irish holidays. Do you feel the same way about them being proud about who they are? no, i am guessing not. These kids are not saying "we are mexicans and we wish we were in mexico so screw you america", although that is how you are acting. They are allowed to have flags of their heritage and they are permitted to do this because of the constitution of the country they live in, the USA.

I dont even blame the government any more for the illegal immigration problem we have. i blame americans. Business owners are greedy and they love to hire people for lower wages if possible. If americans did not hire illegal immigrants and GIVE them the life that they have here then their brothers, sisters and children would not continue to come here and risk their lives for a better one.

oh im not pissed about it, i just find it pathetic

I have irish pride, but i dont protest school and stand across the street with a Irish republic flag chanting anti-american songs and sayings.
We give them the life because that is the american way
and when they act anti-american that is wrong
they should be happy to live here and happy to work for one of those "Greedy" business owners..
why? because we let them in for a better life and they take it for granted and act like WE owe them something.

its not a matter of national pride,i dont understand if they had so much pride in their country then why would they come here?

It comes down to numbers.

There was a time when only English words appeared on American products and any other product sold in our stores -- less than 20 years I ago think. But now, due to a rising Spanish-speaking population, we have added Spanish translations to almost everything. If you asked a group of Americans in 1920 if they thought this would ever happen -- the answer then would have been no. However, given the changing demographics of our population, these changes seem necessary instead of unheard of.

The same is happening with American culture. Many immigrants that come here find entire communities and towns that are no longer run by an American majority, but rather an immigrant majority. For example in Detroit. You can find entire areas that are Muslim dominant, in contrast with the American majority of Christians. (Yes, I realize this is religion and not ethnicity but both are culturally driven.) This is also true with large swaths of Miami where Spanish-speakers outnumber English speakers.

This issue is not just in the United States however, The issue being how does one make a country open to immigration and embracing all people while still maintaining the country's culture? This is evident in the UK where Cameron just admitted that in their country, the meshing of cultures was a big fail.

I don't really have the answer and most people probably don't either since its a very fine line. How does one make a growing number of "new" Americans feel welcome and also maintain American culture? I don't think you do. I think the culture changes as the majority changes. One hundred years ago, any person suggesting adding Spanish translations to everything would have been laughed at -- the mantra was, live here, learn English. Now, Spanish speaking populations have enough like-minded individuals to overturn that same vote.

We also struggle with the basics of equality. The more laws and such designed to protect the minority from persecution, tend to step on the toes of the majority. For example, the age old question of "reverse racism". There are laws covering every ethnicity pretty much, except for caucasians. However, that's because we used to be the clear majority and it was thought to be unnecessary. But, in another 50 - 75 years when hispanics out number those traditionally dubbed caucasian, I think you will see the laws changed as white people become the minority.

Note: Hispanics are white people to me, but this was the easiest way I could think of to distinguish between the old white Americans and the new white hispanic Americans. Sorry if anyone was offended.

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
Coming from a family of immigrants who came here legally I have to say I'm already assimilated I just have a problem with illegals since it is they that are the problem. My family came here to be Americans and learned to speak English.

edit on 10-6-2011 by starwarsisreal because: (no reason given)

This

This is the way it should be
this guy realizes
kudos.

reply to post by NeoAstra


I agree with both of you, however, to play Devil's Advocate for a moment, the reason people are coming to this country has also changed over the years.

Someone coming from Ireland, because they want to live in the United States, for whatever reason, is more likely to embrace American culture and try to "become" an American. Hence, why they chose to live here.

However, thanks to our fabulous CIA and global spy-network, we have a whole bunch of people that are forced to leave their own country, and end up in the United States because we are willing to take them. This holds true for refugees escaping religious persecution, US informants that were found out and threatened to be executed, political dissidents, etc.

The above people tend to have a different mind-set -- I can not live in my own country because they will kill me. I must flee to another country. The United States will allow me to move there.

Two different mentalities in my opinion. This would also hold true for people that feel that have "no choice" but to flee Mexico, due to Cartel violence, lack of employment, rising costs, etc. It's less that they want to be here and more that they have nowhere else to go.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
reply to post by NeoAstra

 

I agree with both of you, however, to play Devil's Advocate for a moment, the reason people are coming to this country has also changed over the years.

Someone coming from Ireland, because they want to live in the United States, for whatever reason, is more likely to embrace American culture and try to "become" an American. Hence, why they chose to live here.

However, thanks to our fabulous CIA and global spy-network, we have a whole bunch of people that are forced to leave their own country, and end up in the United States because we are willing to take them. This holds true for refugees escaping religious persecution, US informants that were found out and threatened to be executed, political dissidents, etc.

The above people tend to have a different mind-set -- I can not live in my own country because they will kill me. I must flee to another country. The United States will allow me to move there.

Two different mentalities in my opinion. This would also hold true for people that feel that have "no choice" but to flee Mexico, due to Cartel violence, lack of employment, rising costs, etc. It's less that they want to be here and more that they have nowhere else to go.

ahh i see, i never took into consideration the refugee side of things...
but dont you think that if they are going to come here, they need to have more respect for our land, its laws, and peoples?
i know that alot of the refugees actually DO want to make a difference in their life by coming here, but i rarely see it.

oh how soon we forget just one link that tells the reason, why they are here and then go back and then come back and do not speak english and it does not cover the hole story www.aredneckblog.com... from the link and this is just one group but the reason is felt by all

Atzlan is a radical separatists group that threatens the territories, sovereignty, and national security of the United States of America. The goal of Atzlan is to have California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Nevada, Utah, and Colorado returned to the country of Mexico.

they think in numbers will do it and fighting our laws will do it so far i think there winning.

Originally posted by bekod
oh how soon we forget just one link that tells the reason, why they are here and then go back and then come back and do not speak english and it does not cover the hole story www.aredneckblog.com...¬e=22 from the link and this is just one group but the reason is felt by all

Atzlan is a radical separatists group that threatens the territories, sovereignty, and national security of the United States of America. The goal of Atzlan is to have California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Nevada, Utah, and Colorado returned to the country of Mexico.

they think in numbers will do it and fighting our laws will do it so far i think there winning.

i am skeptical on this, and im not sure i want to go and read a redneck blog link
but if that is the case, i guarantee you that group will be crushed by the might of those southern states that are being threatened and/or the fed. gov.

reply to post by NeoAstra


Your post runs true with any western nation, from europe to australia. Down here we have the same issues beginning to arise, entire communities of anti Australian hate with hand in a fist and another hand asking for the dole. It's very sad and something that causes me a lot of deep thought, how do you fix this? how do you get people to look beyond race, colour, ethnicity etc?
I think a poster above had it right that governments don't care, in fact they want more people. The more people you have in a country the more the economy grows, who cares if it's predominately poor the sheeple buy the coke.

Originally posted by NeoAstra

Originally posted by lpowell0627
reply to post by NeoAstra

 

ahh i see, i never took into consideration the refugee side of things...
but dont you think that if they are going to come here, they need to have more respect for our land, its laws, and peoples?
i know that alot of the refugees actually DO want to make a difference in their life by coming here, but i rarely see it.

There is a family of refugees from Africa at my son's school. I have spoken with the mother many times. One of the things that struck me was that she loved her life in Africa. Right up until her father was killed for protesting the government. Under threat of death, she and the remaining family members fled to the US. When they first came here, they lived in community with other African refugees. By being surrounded by fellow countrymen, they formed their own little African culture right in the US. However, once their 12 month stay expired, they had to move. Now, she is miserable.

Her family has the universal rights of all humans: to live with dignity and in peace. However, these were taken from her. She would love to return to Africa, but doesn't want to be killed. Her question is why are corrupt and evil leaders allowed to remain while innocent citizens are forced to flee the country they love?

The chance of this family becoming "American" is slim. As she has said, as soon as she can find the means she will move to an area heavily populated with people that came here from Africa in the hopes of sharing their culture with like-minded people.

The way I see it there are only two answers to this plight: forcing all persons, by threat of law, to speak English, embrace American culture, and leave their homeland behind and declare sole allegiance to America and everything we stand for ----OR------- continue to declare America a nation of the free, free to live, speak, and worship as one sees fit...,protected by law and the Constitution.

You can't maintain American culture and customs without enforcing and creating laws that define exactly what that is and how it will be enforced. The more rules regarding how one must live goes against the land of the free.


So which is it? The land of the free....or the land of only Americans?

It's a slippery slope for sure and very complex once you begin to define what it means to be American.

reply to post by bekod
sometimes it is hard to here the truth, even if a red neck says it

There are those of us that feel as a country we have gone too far with our open borders and warn that if we are to survive as a country in the future we must secure our borders and reverse illegal immigration by enforcing our existing immigration laws. This is the view that we feel is logical and a course of action that must be taken by our country.

and one more, and this might be one reason the bored remains open and not just for the votes but NAFTA and there view on it

Others support the Reconquista, Aztlan, or indigenous people's movement. People that follow this train of thought feel that political control of the Southwest United States should be returned to Mexico. Providing an Amnesty or "path to citizenship" for over 20 million illegal aliens would effectively give Mexico political control.

from the link here www.aredneckblog.com...

reply to post by ruffagii


Great points. Yes it is way harder than taxes to figure out, say if you are married to someone and trying to get them in the country, costs a few grand in filing the paperwork, lawyers to help figure before it's filed and compiling all sorts of evidence to prove legit. If you don't get it right the first time they reject it and keep the money, so easy to make slight mistake. And the process, it takes around a year or more to get through all the steps, get approved, plus tons more hoops to go through and $ to maintain green cards etc. Getting legal immigration into USA for sure isn't a cakewalk compared to other countries.

Btw, did anyone hear of the recent "glitch" this year with the 50,000 immigration lottery? Fishy...

"The US is reviewing its green card lottery after this year's results were cancelled, leaving 22,000 people who thought they had been chosen for a chance at US residency disappointed."

- www.bbc.co.uk...

This boils my blood as well:

"A new list of qualifying countries for the next Green Card Lottery DV-2013 will be posted here approximately September1, 2011--immediately after that information is released by the U.S. Government.

The list of qualifying countries for Green Card Lottery DV-2012 remained unchanged from the previous year.

For Green Card Lottery DV-2012, natives of the following countries are NOT eligible to apply because they sent a total of more than 50,000 immigrants to the U.S. in the previous five years: BRAZIL, C ANADA, CHINA (mainland-born), COLOMBIA, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, ECUADOR, EL SALVADOR, GUATEMALA, HAITI, INDIA, JAMAICA, MEXICO, PAKISTAN, PHILIPPINES, PERU, POLAND, SOUTH KOREA, UNITED KINGDOM (except Northern Ireland which IS eligible) and its dependent territories, and VIETNAM.

Persons born in Hong Kong SAR, Macau SAR and Taiwan ARE eligible.

Persons born in Northern Ireland ARE eligible."

- www.americangreencard.com...

Exclude our main parent nation the UK (why only N. Ireland ok?), our brother Mexico and sister Canada?! No wonder there's so many illegals and minorities flooding the gates.