Atheism

reply to post by Silicis n Volvo

Check the new science friend, in particular the concept of monistic idealism, as distinguished from materialist realism.

Consciousness, not matter is primary. Therefore, God-consciousness or God-realization is the supreme goal of human psychological and spiritual (connecting principal) evolutionary progression.

Do not begin with an assumption, about people of "faith". You don't really know what you're talking about.

I found this image today and wanted to share. While agree with a lot of the points being made in the image, I don't agree with the insults towards religious people. Please disregard while reading.

Clicky

reply to post by MrFake

Religious people believe in God.
Atheists believe there is no god.

To add, most atheists don't declare there is "no god" only that there is insufficient evidence thus far to warrant a belief in such extraordinary claims.

Agnostic atheists reason their beliefs because they can't know the unknown, so they can't claim there is or isn't a god, so thus disbelief theories that have no founding.

Gnostic atheists often state that God has been defined in such a way that the definition can easily be falsfied (e.g "God intervenes in human affairs")

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by sinohptik

 

Read the post you replied to. The answers to your questions are there.

i thought you would actually be up for discussion about it! i see no answers to my questions, but thats ok, communication is a two way street and i claim my responsibility in that.

Anyway, one might say that an atheists stance on the issues you have proposed will be more consistent than a christians. Self-proclaimed atheists will likely be quite predictable in their denial of all of the things you have proposed. Unless, like i said, i am mistaken and there are atheists that believe the following:

The sacred text is the bible
The bible is the inspired word of God
There is only one God
We are all sinners
Jesus Christ is God's son and died to save people from sin
He arose from the dead
Eternal Heaven and Hell
Prayer and worship of God

Not all christians subscribe to all of these. But how many can be consistently predicted to not be included in the idealogy of an atheist? If i am mistaken, let me know. The way i see it is that it is all either a positive or negative response to the source material, generally with both polarities being equally predictable in their response to that source material.

Oh well, i should have definitely known better than to have participated in a thread like this at all

All the best benevolent, see ya around

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
You've made all kinds of claims about an alleged god, it's qualities, etc. Pony up some evidence.

Look around, take off those shades and SEE. It's everywhere, both without, and within. All there is is God, the evidence abounds, but "he" cannot be placed in a bottle for the scrutiny of an atheist!

reply to post by Terrormaster


Yet not always. To even attempt to paint, in this case the Catholic Church, or religion in general as some sort of by nature advance-of-science haters is silly at best. They were people, pure and simple. And people naturally have a resistance to information that does not fit with their current belief as to what constitutes "fact". Any number of Cognitive Studies have proven that.

reply to post by yourmaker


Wow you just proved the OPs entire point BRAVO !!!!!!!!!

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

Atheism is no more or no less a worldview than theism is

Atheism never made any claims, there was no founding date. Theism came up with it's extraordinary theory, the burden of proof is on them to prove such a "Deity" exists.

I would ask the same for a Deist, although his proof would be less difficult to fulfil than a Theist's. The Theist seems to be laden with the heavier burden, as the Theist made the more profound claims to reality/unknown.

Again, Atheism isn't (ALWAYS) about making positive claims;

it's a simple disbelief in an conclusion that it seems believers have reached. It's not a positive claim.

A rational atheist should admit that they know as much as the Theist about the unknown; absolutely nothing.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Read the whole thing. To finish the quote: "Regardless the crap tacked on." You are tacking crap on.

Good day.

reply to post by MrFake


"Religious people believe in God.
Atheists believe there is no god.
Neither side has the facts to prove what they say is true.
Therefore, it all comes down to faith"

Well said. It is a matter of faith. One could argue that the planet itself is proof enough of God, the other would say irt's proof of a big bang etc etc etc.

The Atheist has more 'faith' than those who believe in God as one has to believe all we have come from absolutely nothing otherwise you have to argue how did it all get there.

The Christian's faith is based on the belief that something bigger than himself and all matter, exists in another plane of existence that we can't see.

It would seem to be arrogant to believe we are the most intelligent thing in the universe or even that the universe is not something inside something else (dimensions).

For my part, God is a more plausable explanation and I worked that out aged about 8 in school when a teacher couldn't answer my questions on the orgin of matter. (yes an eight year old confirmed to himself the existence of God based on a science teacher trying to explain the origins of earth based on the big bang and evolution. It just seeemd to me tat once nothing existed and then one day we have all this! ??? That was too insane a belief for me. And if, for arguements sake, matter did exist before the 'bigbang' where did it come from?)

Maybe believing in God is a lazy faith compared to the other option?

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


I read the rest, and i disagree.

It's not a case of dualism, or Atheism being a polar opposite, as it is not in all cases.

Atheism doesn't demand that you declare there is no God. Or that your Atheism is a response to Theism.

Many babies are born atheist. Many tribes do not think of reality in terms of causation, and certainly don't attribute morality to the supernatural.

reply to post by kerazeesicko

Is it me or are the atheists on ATS just as fanatical as the religious people they condemn for being fanatical?

At one point, I considered myself an atheist...and at the time, there were times when I felt I could be a bit fanatical about it. Was just a phase for me though...hopefully it is for others as well.

Now, I'd be mostly considered Agnostic. I do believe there's "something" else to it all, then just random chance and science. However, I also believe that all Man's religions are simply childish attempts to explain that which is unknown.

However, I don't feel all religion is all bad. For example, the golden rule is a key tenet in most religions (do unto others....). In addition, I don't fault people for their faith. Indeed, I've had friends that were atheist, Catholic, Muslim, Baptists, Scientologists, Buddhists, Pagans, you name it.

Live and let live is what I say. And, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And if there is some kind of God, and he wants to condemn me for living a good life, but just because I didn't believe in him...well, that's his prerogative I suppose.....but it would certainly make him unworthy to judge me, in my eyes.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by UB2120
Why do you think atomic structure is the same as galactic structure? Look up the design of bateria flagellum, its a rotary motor that is 30nm. What is the origin of motion? What is gravity? What is energy?

What does this have to do with the discussion? If someone claims the universe was created they'll eventually need to produce the alleged creator. Not flagellum or atomic structure or proofs against randomness.

You asked why I thought the universe reeked of design, I gave examples. I'm just showing that there is pattern and God is the source of all pattern.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by UB2120
Just because something is beyond finite comprehension doesn't mean its not true. Infinity and eternity are concepts the finite mind can never fully grasp. To the finite mind there must be a beginning.

And a rational mind cannot grasp an "uncaused cause", except to recognize it for an excuse to overcome the problems of infinite regress.

I think that humans have a hard time conceiving that the universe doesn't need either a beginning or a designer.

Why doesn't it need a beginning or a designer?

Nothing new really. This topic has been beaten to death and for the most part its a pseudo-dichotomy between religion and science. There is a third option and its "fringe"; its called the ancient astronaught theory and it has to do with aliens creating humans and implementing their lifestyle.

Both atheism and religious fanaticism are stupid imo, but each for different reasons.

Originally posted by jessejamesxx
I found this image today and wanted to share. While agree with a lot of the points being made in the image, I don't agree with the insults towards religious people. Please disregard while reading.

Clicky

See, that picture irritates me. It puts all religious people into one group. And that's not how it works. I find it funny how people say that religion has been proven wrong with this and that, when.....it wasn't religion that tried to explain pregnancy, disease, or the shape of the earth. It was science. That's right, science. Science constantly second-guesses itself and proves itself wrong again, and again, and again.

See I think the problem is that the writer of this comic is jealous of religious people, because he has nothing solid to believe in. Science is not a solid principal. And if you think that, you are very wrong. And every scientist would tell you just how unintelligent you are for believing in that.

Religious people simply want to believe in something that is unknown, rather than something that is proven wrong time and time again. I find it funny --- two of the questions in the comic say "Why is there evil?" and "Who made God?" Religion cannot answer these questions. Instead of solid answers, we rely on our faith.

Science, in all of its "invincible" glory, cannot answer these questions either. "Why is there evil?" Science can tell me HOW there is evil, with an explanation of the human mind and mental illnesses, but it cannot say why. "Who made the universe?" Science says that the universe was created by the Big Bang. But what came before that big bang? Where did all of the material come from that caused the big bang? Science cannot answer that either.

Science is not all-knowing. It simply pretends to be. It proves itself wrong every single day. If it didn't, we wouldn't have half the scientists we have today. And they wouldn't be constantly re-guessing their work.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I'm interested to know why suspending judgement due to a lack of evidence is "stupid"?

Atheists didn't create the God hypothesis. What about tribes? Are they stupid? Just because they havn't created supernatural causation as an attempt to rationalise the universe and/or the human condition.

reply to post by Leahn

No, he did not meant to say that God predetermines everything. He meant to say that what we usually call "random" is not really random. It is just the deterministic result of causes we do not know how to account for.

Indeed god of the gaps

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

There is a third option and its "fringe"; its called the ancient astronaught theory and it has to do with aliens creating humans and implementing their lifestyle

And the difference between Elohim and Aliens is ?

reply to post by MrFake

Atheism is a religion whether the atheists want to admit it or not.

atheism.about.com...


uh Atheism is the lack of a religion.....