John Kerry couldn't think for 40 minutes on 9/11

There is one obvious thing that Bush SHOULD have done, the moment he heard of the second hit. Every world leader did it. Just about every person in the world did it.

He SHOULD have sought more information! He should have got up, made his excuses and left IMMEDIATELY to consult with his advisors. He was supposed to be in charge, and he sat there and did nothing.

Can anyone imagine a Navy captain NOT being court-martialed for failing to act or even consult with his officers for 7 minutes after he was attacked. Or pilot who sat around for 7 minutes finishing his sandwich after he has been scrambled?

Someone remind me. What were his credentials that made him suitable as a world leader? Was he REALLY the best guy America could come up with??

So much talk about how Bush couldn't have done anything, or that Kerry should have.

Here's how the script would have gone if the person in the role of POTUS was capable and intelligent, rather than a dry-drunk, C student.

Aide (whispers into the President's ear): "Mr. President, the United States is under attack."

President (standing): Children, I'm really sorry, but the President has to go. It's been very nice reading with you. (exits) (immediately to aide at his left) Get me Chaney and Rice on a call. (to aide on his right) Get me SACCOM and the CJC.

30 seconds in transit to the limo. In the limo, POTUS is on two separate calls with his top people: The VP, his NSA, The Comander of the Strategic Air Command and the Joint Chiefs of Staff. His only lines, repeated regularly, are "What do we know?" and a lot of listening as he is fed massive amounts of information, followed by "What are our options?" Followed by different opinions from the different people involved.

By the time he is "wheels up" on Air Force One he knows the extent of the situation, and has his top people assembled in person or via conference call in his "war room" on the plane. Decisions are being made and action is being taken.

It is sad that what we got instead was a totally confused and "stunned" President Bush. And it really doesn't matter WHAT Kerry or anybody else were doing -- they were not sworn in to the role of President of the United States of America, and they were not empowered to take ANY action.

Originally posted by muppet
[Nice try at what? And yes I checked the links, and don't offer anything to counter my argument. The article, and your interpretation, is spin.

There is no spin, there is a transcript of John Kerry's answer to a question from Larry King during his show on 7- 8-2004, and the chronology of events on 9-11-2001. The NewsMax article merely connects the two, and puts it in context with John Kerry's recent remarks. Which of the following is spin, or puts some doubt to the veracity of the original post.

1. The transcript of the Larry King show on 7-8-2004?

2. The accuracy of CNN's Chronology of Events on 9-11-2001?

3. NewsMax's article drawing on those two pieces of information and correlating them, and then pointing out the hypocrisy of John Kerry�s recent remarks as to what he WOULD have done?

Come on Mirthful, you're not even making sense. No replays? then what did I and about a billion other viewers see constantly on the television after the second plane hit?

From the "Larry King Show" transcript (extended for relevance)
KING: Where were you on 9/11?

HEINZ KERRY: You know, it's very interesting. I landed at National Airport less than 12 hours before, coming from Pennsylvania, where I was doing a prescription drugs thing -- meeting. And I came in from Pittsburgh, landed at National, and that's the last time I landed at National for quite a while.

KING: How'd you hear about it?

HEINZ KERRY: I was at home in Washington. I had just come in and I got a call...

KERRY: I think I called.

HEINZ KERRY: And they said, look at the TV. I looked at the TV and I couldn't believe it.

KING: Where were you?

KERRY: I was in the Capitol. We'd just had a meeting -- we'd just come into a leadership meeting in Tom Daschle's office, looking out at the Capitol. And as I came in, Barbara Boxer and Harry Reid were standing there, and we watched the second plane come in to the building. And we shortly thereafter sat down at the table and then we just realized nobody could think, and then boom, right behind us, we saw the cloud of explosion at the Pentagon. And then word came from the White House, they were evacuating, and we were to evacuate, and so we immediately began the evacuation.

HEINZ KERRY: You walked out with John McCain, didn't you?

KERRY: Yes.

KING: You and what?

HEINZ KERRY: He and John walked out together.

KING: He and John McCain walked out -- what did you think?

Did you think...

(CROSSTALK)

KERRY: I knew instantaneously...

KING: Clinton said he though bin Laden.

KERRY: I knew instantaneously with the first. I'm a pilot, and I looked at the weather, and it's what we call in pilot lingo CAVU, ceiling and visibility unlimited. And I knew that that plane did not fly into that building accidentally, as people were speculating. It just doesn't happen, could not, under those circumstances. So I knew it was deliberate, whether it was suicide, whether it was something -- I couldn't tell. When the second plane hit, it was obvious to the world.

And as we went out of the building, my immediately feeling was, we're at war. I mean, that was the sense, that we are under attack. People are attacking the United States of America and we needed to respond.

Certainly seems that he is speaking of real time events:

KERRY: I knew instantaneously with the first. I'm a pilot, and I looked at the weather, and it's what we call in pilot lingo CAVU, ceiling and visibility unlimited. And I knew that that plane did not fly into that building accidentally, as people were speculating. It just doesn't happen, could not, under those circumstances.

I am well aware of the replays, and quite cognizant of the context of John Kerry's recollection of his whereabouts, and his confessed state of mind during those tragic moments. I am also amused at the juxtaposition of those self evident truths and his armchair rhetoric directed at President Bush and the propagation of these statements by partisan media outlets.

And then you go on to say armchair remarks about what Kerry would have done are reprehensible, when you post is made up of nothing BUT armchair remarks about what he would or wouldn't have done? How very fair minded of you.

I do believe that the preponderance of evidence both direct, and linked exceeds the threshold of "when you post is made up of nothing BUT armchair remarks", but then again a prima facie case against the Democrats "Chosen One" is incomprehensible.

I am not going to bash any person but the truth is that everybody went speechless that day after the terrorist attack I was at work in my classroom when one of the teachers came running to tell me what was going on the news at that time and she wasn't even able to get her though straight and finish what she was trying to tell me.

I think all over the world people got speechless.

The point I'm making is that Newsmax's article is nothing but speculation, based casual remarks in a TV interview. I see the quote, and I'm not disputing it, but it's a might stretch to infer from this that Kerry wouldn't have acted more decisively than Bush, if it was he that was sitting in that chair. The interpretation they have chosen to present is nothing short of spin and armchair speculation.

CyberChas's post above represent what any normal world leader would have done.

edit: lets not forget this was a TV interview, not a courtroom statement. What he said cannot be taken the the whole story, anymore than Bush's "thinking of ways to hurt america" slip up could be taken literally.


[edit on 6-8-2004 by muppet]

[edit on 6-8-2004 by muppet]

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Not the most articulate description but John hadn't been scripted for this. John Kerry was not the Commander in Chief, he was a shocked and confused man under the duress of direct attack, as were the others present in New York, and Washington. The arm chair (and frankly disingenuous remarks that have been recently made as to what he WOULD have done) quarterbacking of John Kerry is what is so reprehensible (although not as reprehensible as his return to New York and Washington on 9/12 to film an editable version of what he WOULD have done if he WOULD have been President on that fateful day). This ploy to try and capitalize on Michael Moore's success as a propagandist may have truly backfired, but then again Michael and John are "frauds of a feather".

Since I actually saw the Larry King interview A MONTH AGO, and know how poorly constructed the News Max spin is on this as well as your "deconstruction" of events and drawn implications are here Mirthful Me (shame on you by the way), I submit the most impactful quote from the entire interview that struck me at the time:

KERRY: I knew instantaneously with the first. I'm a pilot, and I looked at the weather, and it's what we call in pilot lingo CAVU, ceiling and visibility unlimited. And I knew that that plane did not fly into that building accidentally, as people were speculating. It just doesn't happen, could not, under those circumstances. So I knew it was deliberate, whether it was suicide, whether it was something -- I couldn't tell. When the second plane hit, it was obvious to the world.

And as we went out of the building, my immediately feeling was, we're at war. I mean, that was the sense, that we are under attack. People are attacking the United States of America and we needed to respond.

I'm no pilot, but I knew too. After the very first plane hit. When the news broke in with the account, and began to speculate on everything from pilot error to small plane engine failure here's what I (average Joe citizen) thought. Dumbasses. It's a terrorist. Apparently Kerry agreed.

This sad little spin on using Kerry's colorful description of watching TV after the second explosion as "we realized nobody could think" (which was my exact reaction too watching the news reporters wet themselves with wild speculation), is MOST TELLING in that it took NEWSMAX an ENTIRE MONTH of skimming the transcripts to come up with this one:

Friday, Aug. 6, 2004
Hypocrite Kerry 'Couldn't Think' for 40 Minutes on 9/11

That's just sad. The biggest Larry King interview of the year, and a month later this is headline? A spin on one line? Please. :shk:

I'm really sorry your guy Bush is on tape as a deer in headlights people for the duration of 9/11. I REALLY am. But this "Kerry just as bad" stuff doesn't wash at all considering the interview in it's entirity.

Yes.

I'm sure GWB was going to leap to his feet and leave immediately.

Of course the Secret Service and the Pres' other staffers didn't have to make arrangements to determine where he would have to go upon leaving, which means of transport was safest, and conduct thorough sweeps of the area around the school to ensure he would walk out of there without getting hurt/killed.

7 minutes to prepare a safe route out of the school and get to work on if AF1 could fly and where it could fly to ....?

Kudos.

I was immobile for several hours. I guess everyone who thinks that 7 minutes is paramount is a much crueler and unfeeling person than the rest of us.

Originally posted by muppet
The point I'm making is that Newsmax's article is nothing but speculation, based casual remarks in a TV interview. I see the quote, and I'm not disputing it, but it's a might stretch to infer from this that Kerry wouldn't have acted more decisively than Bush, if it was he that was sitting in that chair. The interpretation they have chosen to present is nothing short of spin and armchair speculation.

The point I'm making is that John Kerry chose to attack George Bush on his action (or inaction if you prefer) at the onset of the attack on the World Trade Center. The difference that could have been made by him quickly exiting the classroom is unknown, and moot with the passage of time. The irony that John Kerry had previously indicated that "he couldn't think" and is now bristling with bravado, cannot go without mention. The truth lies in the realm that no one could anticipate the events that unfolded on that day, nor could someone extrapolate their actions, or inaction nearly three years hence.

There's always a safe route B.

The Secret Service already has a route and an alternate planned to get him out of the area and to the nearest secure location. His Car. The Presidential limo is armoured and carries a small arsenal of weapons including sawn-off shotguns and tear gas launchers. They bundle him into the car and make for Air Force One, just like they did right afterwards. The Secret Service take their cues from the President unless there is a clear danger to his immediate vicinity. They were waiting for him to stand up and say "Let's go" these people have entire teams dedicated to extraction plans for every and i mean EVERY possible event. They scout ahead and arrange perimeters.

Do you know what he did after those seven minutes? He watched CNN.

G.W. did the right thing. He didn't panic. He didn't get the children upset.

How about the kids watching TV who saw their infallible leader sitting reading about a goat when their nation was attacked? Do you think they panicked?

Oh, won't somebody please think of the children *rolls eyes*

I'm sorry, but what exactly could he have done? Nothing.

He's not in control of the military, the secret service, or anything.

I think that even if he stood around for forty minutes there was very little he could have done even if he didn't.

Whether the president was sitting on a chair as part of his daily duties and social part of being a president his life and everything he does is on a schedule the secret service monitor everything he does and where he goes and to tell the true he had to sit on that chair wanted or not until the secret service was sure that he was safe to go anywhere else.

Originally posted by Nerdling
There's always a safe route B.
The Secret Service already has a route and an alternate planned to get him out of the area and to the nearest secure location.

Right, cuz they had a reaction plan drawn up for "terrorists fly 2 passenger aircraft into the WTC and another into the Pentagon"?

I don't think so.

They have a safe route and plans and preparations for many conceivable emergency situations, but somehow I doubt they had something like this at the ready.

Let's face it.
GWB did about as well as the calmest of us on that day.
Kerry did about as well as the majority of the American public on that day. Hell, I don't much care for Kerry, but I don't fault him for being stunned for 40 minutes. He was in DC, as I was at the time, and NONE OF US knew if bombs would start going off or if more planes would crash into buildings or god knows what else.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Read the play by play of how the world reacted.
Second by second, what were people saying and thinking that morning? It's all there.

I don't fault either of them, and they shouldn't fault each other. It's pointless and annoying, and stuff like this is gonna come back to bite Kerry in the rump.

Banshee, I agree with you if the candidates are going to bash each other for what they were doing and what they should have done on the moments after 9/11 they are wasting their time and our time too, it is other issues more important that the what's and if's.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Originally posted by muppet
The point I'm making is that Newsmax's article is nothing but speculation, based casual remarks in a TV interview. I see the quote, and I'm not disputing it, but it's a might stretch to infer from this that Kerry wouldn't have acted more decisively than Bush, if it was he that was sitting in that chair. The interpretation they have chosen to present is nothing short of spin and armchair speculation.

The point I'm making is that John Kerry chose to attack George Bush on his action (or inaction if you prefer) at the onset of the attack on the World Trade Center. The difference that could have been made by him quickly exiting the classroom is unknown, and moot with the passage of time. The irony that John Kerry had previously indicated that "he couldn't think" and is now bristling with bravado, cannot go without mention. The truth lies in the realm that no one could anticipate the events that unfolded on that day, nor could someone extrapolate their actions, or inaction nearly three years hence

We don't have to extrapolate anything to see that Bush failed to act on that day. He really did sit there inactive when he should have been asking "what do we know?", so Kerry was quite right to attack him for that. You are taking his "couldn't think" statement totally the wrong way. it was obviouly a figure of speech, not a literal statement. This was a TV interview on Larry King, not a courthouse.

It's not like it takes superhuman to act in these circumstances. Within 10 seconds of someone someone telling me about the attack, I checked the BBC website. Like all news websites it was down.. same with CNN.

Within 1 minute I and the rest of our office were on our way up the street to the local Dixons electrical store, where they had TV's in the window. We were speculating on what happened. We were watching the tower smoking and then we say the second plane hit. we remarked on how the commenters were a few seconds slow on picking this up. We discussing the political implications, whether there were more aircraft etc.etc. So was everyone else.

Meanwhile you Commander in Chief did nothing, and Kerry was right to attack him for it.




[edit on 6-8-2004 by muppet]

I think when the second plane hit, everybody felt alittle lost. Bush was doing the only thing he could do: stay calm and not frighten the children. How bad would it be if he was in the middle of the classroom reading, the Secret Service comes in ,whispers in his ear, and he runs off and heads to the white house without saying anything?

Also, there was nothing he could do, he's a human being, not a super hero. He can't use his telekenetic abilities to pour the ocean water on the burning towers. And, in the interest of national security, he wouldnt go back to the white house when there were two AWOL planes somewhere in the east coastpossibly heading to the white house.

What happened was something that shocked the country instantly. Those who seen it, or heard about it, litterally had a brain freeze. You cannot expect ANYBODY to act during that kindof situation.

If you take the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor as an example, it hours for the President to REACT and say anything about it, and it took a whole day for a physical declaration of war to occur.

Nobody in the office during 9-11 could have reacted to something so shocking, no Gore, not Bush, not Clinton, not Nader, not Kerry.

[edit on 8-6-2004 by WolfofWar]

John Kerry, the great flip-flopper. Jumping up and getting hysterical is probably what he WOULD do.
He has been shooting for the White House for 30 years. He really has no leadership qualities. But, he did manage to get FIVE medals in four months in Viernam.

Certainly the 9-11 events were stunning. Totally unexpected to me anyway. I remember watching it on TV as I got ready for work.

I guess the ideal leader would have their mind instantaneously reaching and stretching to comprehend the total situation. The truth of the matter is it appears the nation was initially helpless. I don't fault the president for being somewhat stunned initially, but I still don't think GW Bush has the intelligence that one needs to deal with terrorism. Terrorism is a complex and intricate problem. Bush doesn't have the mental machinery needed to engage his brain in overdrive. He is probably too damaged from coke and alcohol.
.

Its not Bush's actions (or lack of) im concerned about. I know that the secret service would NEVER have allowed "the man", the most important president of the free world remain in place while an attack was happening in the USA.

My husband worked for the Secret Service and he says the proper thing to do would have been to haul the president outa his chair immediately, (kids or no kids), while the USA was under attack.

You people seem to miss this point. Bush didnt stay there to be nice to the kids and spare them of trauma, etc. He stayed there BECAUSE HE WAS ALLOWED TO REMAIN DUE TO THE FACT THERE WAS NO IMMEDIATE DANGER TO HIM. Which brings me around to the point: How did they know this?

In fact, by remaining there, he actually put the kids at a very high risk.
An attack against a nation is mostly directed at the leader of that nation.

Again, those who worship Bush, assume he just tried to spare the kids.
WAKE UP DARLINGS. This is all part of the continuing bru ha ha going on since day one he stole the precidency.

dgtempe

You brought up a good point, I though about that but then I kind of dismissed, it is a good question to ask, if US was under an attack bush obviously was not in any danger and he knew the children were in danger either. Right? or he would be had been taken out of the school inmediatly

I just watched the footage of Bush sitting in the classroom again on the news (they are discussing the same thing we are)

And honestly, he doesn't look stunned. He looks disturbed, or thinking. Seriously. I support Kerry, but I think he was rather thinking what to do instead of being stunned.

.02

-wD