How to Kill a Human Being

reply to post by AnteBellum


What kind of a response is that? That is one of the few times that I have seen the starter of a thread deviate so far from their OP. I want to get a response out of you. I want you to defend your position.

What is just about the death penalty? Do you like being in the same company as religious extremists, communist suppressors, terrorists, and third-world nations?

Originally posted by Judge_Holden
reply to post by AnteBellum

 

What kind of a response is that? That is one of the few times that I have seen the starter of a thread deviate so far from their OP. I want to get a response out of you. I want you to defend your position.

What is just about the death penalty? Do you like being in the same company as religious extremists, communist suppressors, terrorists, and third-world nations?

Here is your response:

If you commit murder you should be put down, like an animal.
I take the stance that in war killing is justified if you so choose to fight.
Murder is the same game, if you choose to kill in cold blood, you also choose to die in it.

As for being in the same company as religious extremists, you are greatly mistaken. I would not kill in the name of religion, money, power or fame. Which most extremist groups fall into one or more of these categories.
Murder is a crime against nature and those who advocate punishing murderers to life in prison should be subject to taking care of them also. My little picture is the only solution I can agree on, out of sight out of mind, no longer a drain on society or prisons.
I would comment longer but I have to go. . . to be continued.

And I can ask a similar question, what is not just about the death penalty? Do you like being in the same company as religious extremists(other end), pacifists, hippies, and 'holier then thou' elitist nations?

Personally, having seen so many cut and dried cases, where no questions existed. I think the death penalty should be carried out immediately. You are found guilty, walked out behind the jail, and a bullet put in your head. No psychological issues of worrying about death, etc etc.

Obviously this would not work if there were questions about the prosecution, however, there are many cut and dried cases, where the convicted sits on death row for 30 years. Sorry it is not neat and pretty, but a bullet to the brain is effective, supposedly painless, and final. No questions about the chemicals used etc etc.

The only thing I would change for some of the wall street crowd, would like to see them convicted of treason, calling for a penalty of being hung, drawn, and quartered, a few public incidents of that would most likely cause wall street fraud to cease.

Again the same patern of sustanable economy vs humane treatment of animal and people,

Its not just companies that are evil, its the lack of caring we get when we dont realize the truth as a herd, that apears why we crave the perfect ruler.

Wake up everyone (me included) and lead by example in the things you will tolerate, an over abundance of to much good can never be a bad thing.

peace.

Originally posted by Somehumanbeing
reply to post by MaxNormal

 

Some people don't really care that they kill other people, especially if they've done it on multiple occasions. There were a few gang rapes here in Australia by a gang of muslims. None of them showed any remorse.

edit on 6-6-2011 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)

I agree some are sociopaths and will not or cannot feel remorse or empaty. These individuals should be removed from society forever, and not allowed to breed and spread there genetics. But we do not need to kill them for this. Sterilize and lock them away.

Originally posted by MaxNormal

Originally posted by Somehumanbeing
reply to post by MaxNormal

 

Some people don't really care that they kill other people, especially if they've done it on multiple occasions. There were a few gang rapes here in Australia by a gang of muslims. None of them showed any remorse.

edit on 6-6-2011 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)

I agree some are sociopaths and will not or cannot feel remorse or empaty. These individuals should be removed from society forever, and not allowed to breed and spread there genetics. But we do not need to kill them for this. Sterilize and lock them away.

Ok my question would be for those folks, why should I as a taxpayer, pay for this? I am in the USA but this question would fit for any country. To answer you next question, I am a slight left leaning centrist.

reply to post by BubbaJoe


Executions are quite costly. I'm not sure what you are arguing against. Do you think I am for or against death penalty?

i]reply to post by AnteBellum

If you commit murder you should be put down, like an animal. I take the stance that in war killing is justified if you so choose to fight. Murder is the same game, if you choose to kill in cold blood, you also choose to die in it.

Comparing war and cold-blooded murder is ludicrous. Individuals are killed in war primarily as an act of self-defense; kill or be killed. Most nations respect international law when it comes to war, that being if an individual is captured and held captive, they are to be treated humanely and not killed. Basically, your argument can be used against you: just like war, an individual captured after killing someone should be treated humanely and not in turn killed as an act of revenge. If you honestly believe that war and murder are the same thing, then you have to follow through with it; you cannot support the death penalty.

As for being in the same company as religious extremists, you are greatly mistaken. I would not kill in the name of religion, money, power or fame. Which most extremist groups fall into one or more of these categories.

I am not referring to the reasons that you yourself would kill. I am referring to state-sanctioned justice. By implementing the death penalty, the United States falls into the same category as governments of extreme religious persuasion, who kill their citizens not only for murder, but for breaking primative religious laws.

Murder is a crime against nature and those who advocate punishing murderers to life in prison should be subject to taking care of them also.

Here's a surprising fact: the death penalty is actually more expensive (see pages 3 and 4) than keeping an individual incarcerated for life. The reason it is so expensive is due to the complicated legal process, with the largest costs coming from the pre trial process and the ensuing trial itself.

Keeping an individual shut off from society in a tiny cell for 23 hours a day is not exactly paradise.

And I can ask a similar question, what is not just about the death penalty? Do you like being in the same company as religious extremists(other end), pacifists, hippies, and 'holier then thou' elitist nations?

The death penalty is unjust because, as I said earlier, it is a barbarous and inhumane practice. People are not animals, regardless of whether or not they act like one.

Name ONE country that is controlled by religious extremists that does not implement the death penalty. If you are able to do so (which you won't be), I can show you a dozen that are. Calling nations that do not implement the death penalty "pacifists" and "hippies" and "holier than thou elitists" is ridiculous. You are talking about democratic, secular, capitalist nations. Each of those descriptors are opinionated, unlike the words that I chose to use to describe nations that still use the death penalty; it is a FACT that nations like China, as well as nations in Africa and the Middle East are headed by Communist repressors/religious extremists. It is also a FACT that most are third-world nations.

I was hoping that Watson would be able to take care of all of this.
Before too long I'm sure it'll come to the conclusion that humans must be outlawed and arrested and fined for being mere humans.
Let's face the fact:
Humans are silly, strange little things.

reply to post by Somehumanbeing


If someone is convicted without question, prosecution problems etc, such as confessions, execution is quite cheap, a bullet for a 1911A Colt Automatic is about 1 dollar or less, long time since I have fired one, but if someone is convicted without question, why am I housing them for 30 years?

Sorry I have experience with the legal system, and on the wrong side, but yeah I believe in the death penalty, just not the way this country does it.

There are some of these bastards that need to be put down like animals, and yeah with great regret I have had to do that too.

Sad thing is, in most things I am a liberal

reply to post by Michelangelo


haah I've already tried that man...you just pass out after to many rips or brownies..

reply to post by Judge_Holden



I am going to respectfully disagree with you. With our budget issues, prison for profit problems, etc. Why are we going to hold people for 30 - 50 years, wouldn't quick execution actually be more merciful. I do not mean that to sound that cold, but imagine being locked up for 50 years. I have been locked up, it is not a pleasant place to be.

Originally posted by BubbaJoe

Originally posted by MaxNormal

Originally posted by Somehumanbeing
reply to post by MaxNormal

 

Some people don't really care that they kill other people, especially if they've done it on multiple occasions. There were a few gang rapes here in Australia by a gang of muslims. None of them showed any remorse.

edit on 6-6-2011 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)

I agree some are sociopaths and will not or cannot feel remorse or empaty. These individuals should be removed from society forever, and not allowed to breed and spread there genetics. But we do not need to kill them for this. Sterilize and lock them away.

Ok my question would be for those folks, why should I as a taxpayer, pay for this? I am in the USA but this question would fit for any country. To answer you next question, I am a slight left leaning centrist.

As a taxpayer you pay for tons of thing you never see, use, or gain anything from. Paying for this protects you, your home, your family, your community, and the world. I know your thought is why pay for them to be taken care of, but your not doing that. Your paying to have them taken out of society, so you and your family can sleep soundly. In theory ofcourse.

Originally posted by MaxNormal

Originally posted by BubbaJoe

Originally posted by MaxNormal

Originally posted by Somehumanbeing
reply to post by MaxNormal

 

Some people don't really care that they kill other people, especially if they've done it on multiple occasions. There were a few gang rapes here in Australia by a gang of muslims. None of them showed any remorse.

edit on 6-6-2011 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)

I agree some are sociopaths and will not or cannot feel remorse or empaty. These individuals should be removed from society forever, and not allowed to breed and spread there genetics. But we do not need to kill them for this. Sterilize and lock them away.

Ok my question would be for those folks, why should I as a taxpayer, pay for this? I am in the USA but this question would fit for any country. To answer you next question, I am a slight left leaning centrist.

As a taxpayer you pay for tons of thing you never see, use, or gain anything from. Paying for this protects you, your home, your family, your community, and the world. I know your thought is why pay for them to be taken care of, but your not doing that. Your paying to have them taken out of society, so you and your family can sleep soundly. In theory ofcourse.

I do understand where you are coming from, and in most areas, I am left of center, especially concerning social issues. Guys like Charlie Manson, we have had him locked up for over 40 years, he is never going to get out, he is a complete sociopath, what has society gained by allowing him to live? This guy that kidnapped the Duggard girl, what will society gain by allowing him to live, the guy that Kidnapped Elizabeth Smart, again society has nothing to gain.

I am not trying to be cold and cruel here, but some of these cases are cut and dried, these folks will never see the light of day, what justifies the investment, when we will never see any return on it? This is the one area where I differ from my friends on the left, I believe we need the death penalty, I just think we do a really crappy job of carrying it out.

Originally posted by BubbaJoe

Originally posted by MaxNormal

Originally posted by BubbaJoe

Originally posted by MaxNormal

Originally posted by Somehumanbeing
reply to post by MaxNormal

 

Some people don't really care that they kill other people, especially if they've done it on multiple occasions. There were a few gang rapes here in Australia by a gang of muslims. None of them showed any remorse.

edit on 6-6-2011 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)

I agree some are sociopaths and will not or cannot feel remorse or empaty. These individuals should be removed from society forever, and not allowed to breed and spread there genetics. But we do not need to kill them for this. Sterilize and lock them away.

Ok my question would be for those folks, why should I as a taxpayer, pay for this? I am in the USA but this question would fit for any country. To answer you next question, I am a slight left leaning centrist.

As a taxpayer you pay for tons of thing you never see, use, or gain anything from. Paying for this protects you, your home, your family, your community, and the world. I know your thought is why pay for them to be taken care of, but your not doing that. Your paying to have them taken out of society, so you and your family can sleep soundly. In theory ofcourse.

I do understand where you are coming from, and in most areas, I am left of center, especially concerning social issues. Guys like Charlie Manson, we have had him locked up for over 40 years, he is never going to get out, he is a complete sociopath, what has society gained by allowing him to live? This guy that kidnapped the Duggard girl, what will society gain by allowing him to live, the guy that Kidnapped Elizabeth Smart, again society has nothing to gain.

I am not trying to be cold and cruel here, but some of these cases are cut and dried, these folks will never see the light of day, what justifies the investment, when we will never see any return on it? This is the one area where I differ from my friends on the left, I believe we need the death penalty, I just think we do a really crappy job of carrying it out.

I understand how you feel. Society gains clean hands, being able to know we are not just like them. Being a country that is more than the wild west. No one is lost forever, hope springs eternal, blah blah hippie stuff. To many chances of killing an innocent man, or a man that may feel remorse and at the least labor for life in jail. For free ofcourse, no one incarcerated sould make any profit. Forget india, china, etc...., exploit the prison population. I would like it if a rapist in jail for life made my shoe instead of a kid in a third world country.

Originally posted by AnteBellum

Hammurabi's law, eye for an eye, may not always apply but I feel if you take a life, you forfeit your own.

So if society kills innocent people, with the death penalty, should all of society GET the death penalty? If we could make 1000% sure only the guilty were killed, I would be for the death penalty with no reservations.

But thats not the case. We DO execute the innocent wrongfully. And if you look at how many innocents have been freed from prison via DNA, you realize that a LOT more than we officially recognize have likely been murdered by the state.

Politics, wealth, a lot of things factor into who does and who does not get executed. Unless and until the system is fair, and the rich and poor are convicted according to their actual guilt, and sentenced according to their actual crime, I will always oppose the death penalty.

Killing a killer does not bring back the dead. Who are you and/or the state to pass judgement on who lives or dies? Sorry but the death penalty is savage, repugnant, and antiquated.

reply to post by Judge_Holden

Comparing war and cold-blooded murder is ludicrous. Individuals are killed in war primarily as an act of self-defense; kill or be killed. Most nations respect international law when it comes to war, that being if an individual is captured and held captive, they are to be treated humanely and not killed. Basically, your argument can be used against you: just like war, an individual captured after killing someone should be treated humanely and not in turn killed as an act of revenge. If you honestly believe that war and murder are the same thing, then you have to follow through with it; you cannot support the death penalty.

Self Defense??? In war??? War is about killing to make the enemy no longer a threat. Yea, self defense comes into play but it is NOT what war is about. Most nations respect international law but do not follow it (especially the USA), don't you read the threads on this site? In a war a captured enemy is rendered useless to the opposition, killing serves no purpose in this situation for he was fighting with honor for what he believed and got captured. Not some greedy, homicidal, psychopath hell bent on the rape and murder of innocent civilians for his/her own satisfaction.

I am not referring to the reasons that you yourself would kill. I am referring to state-sanctioned justice. By implementing the death penalty, the United States falls into the same category as governments of extreme religious persuasion, who kill their citizens not only for murder, but for breaking primative religious laws.

You are an idealist! You live in the USA? The laws governing a country are just that - laws. The USA is not a 'civilized nation' as you said earlier. Just look around at what its civilians do. I had the pleasure to live in another 3rd world country for some time and they were afraid of all americans. Most of the respected world sees us as power hungry, money hungry, narcissistic, gun crazy, drug using freaks that will kill each other for practically no reason. And to a good extent they are right - just look around. It's like comparing our Katrina, to Japans earthquake - look at how 'civilized' civilians acted in Japan opposed to the way we handled it.
I am in no way advocating executing anyone for anything less then Capital, 1st degree murder proven by a preponderance of evidence by a jury of peers (you and me). Not for religious reasons unless it is what the murder was carried out for to begin with.

Here's a surprising fact: the death penalty is actually more expensive (see pages 3 and 4) than keeping an individual incarcerated for life. The reason it is so expensive is due to the complicated legal process, with the largest costs coming from the pre trial process and the ensuing trial itself.

Keeping an individual shut off from society in a tiny cell for 23 hours a day is not exactly paradise.

It isn't about the money completely, though to convict for murder the pre-trial and the ensuing trial itself are costs that will be there regardless if it is a death penalty case or just plead down to life in prison. They still have to get a trail! The article says it costs about the same, just death penalty cases are up front costs, others are spread out over many years.

The death penalty is unjust because, as I said earlier, it is a barbarous and inhumane practice. People are not animals, regardless of whether or not they act like one.

Name ONE country that is controlled by religious extremists that does not implement the death penalty. If you are able to do so (which you won't be), I can show you a dozen that are. Calling nations that do not implement the death penalty "pacifists" and "hippies" and "holier than thou elitists" is ridiculous. You are talking about democratic, secular, capitalist nations. Each of those descriptors are opinionated, unlike the words that I chose to use to describe nations that still use the death penalty; it is a FACT that nations like China, as well as nations in Africa and the Middle East are headed by Communist repressors/religious extremists. It is also a FACT that most are third-world nations.

Unfortunately, most try not to believe it, but we are just animals. Homo Sapiens. . . animals that reason.

Here is a list of countries with the Death Penalty:
Afghanistan
Antigua and Barbuda
Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus
Belize
Botswana
Burundi
Cameroon
Chad
China (People's Republic)
Comoros
Congo (Democratic Republic)
Cuba
Dominica
Egypt
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Gabon
Ghana
Guatemala
Guinea
Guyana
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Korea, North
Korea, South
Kuwait
Laos
Lebanon
Lesotho
Libya
Malawi
Malaysia
Mongolia
Nigeria
Oman
Pakistan
Palestinian Authority
Qatar
St. Kitts and Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Saudi Arabia
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Somalia
Sudan
Swaziland
Syria
Taiwan
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Thailand
Trinidad and Tobago
Uganda
United Arab Emirates
United States
Vietnam
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe

Funny, I swear I could have seen our civilized friends Japan on that list!
Why do you keep trying to compare the USA to religious extremist countries? We are quite different. It is like saying gay men and straight women are the same because they both like men. That's insane!


Murder Rates in 2006: Only list I could find
TOP of the LIST is USA in 2006 had 17,030 murders.
# 1 Turkey: 13,424 No Death Penalty
# 2 Ukraine: 2,228 No Death Penalty
# 3 Belarus: 975
# 4 Romania: 845 No Death Penalty
# 5 Italy: 718 No Death Penalty
# 6 France: 494 No Death Penalty
# 7 Poland: 374 No Death Penalty
# 8 Australia: 349 No Death Penalty
# 9 Lithuania: 278 No Death Penalty
# 10 Albania: 253 No Death Penalty
# 11 Tajikistan: 225
# 12 Turkmenistan: 222 No Death Penalty
# 13 Germany: 204 No Death Penalty
# 14 Hungary: 195 No Death Penalty
# 15 Croatia: 189 No Death Penalty
# 16 Belgium: 188 No Death Penalty
# 17 Finland: 172 No Death Penalty
# 18 Sweden: 163 No Death Penalty
# 19 Portugal: 162 No Death Penalty
# 20 Bulgaria: 158 No Death Penalty
# 21 Netherlands: 142 No Death Penalty
# 22 Estonia: 106 No Death Penalty
# 23 Latvia: 101 No Death Penalty
# 24 Switzerland: 98 No Death Penalty
= 25 Slovakia: 59 No Death Penalty
= 25 Austria: 59 No Death Penalty
# 27 Denmark: 51 No Death Penalty
# 28 Slovenia: 44 No Death Penalty
# 30 Spain: 34 No Death Penalty
# 31 Norway: 25 No Death Penalty
# 32 New Zealand: 24 No Death Penalty
# 33 Ireland: 23 No Death Penalty
# 34 Singapore: 17
# 35 Luxembourg: 4 No Death Penalty
# 36 Cyprus: 2 No Death Penalty
= 37 Iceland: 1 No Death Penalty
= 37 Malta: 1 No Death Penalty
NationMaster Link

Just look at all those progressive civilized societies above with NO Death Penalty!
Maybe the USA would not be on top if it had a Federal Death Penalty Statute instead of state to state legislation.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c6d3f3920067.png[/atsimg]
What a great idea! If I want to kill someone in Texas I can just lure them to New Mexico to beat the death penalty if caught. I love the way this country works!

You can argue what you want, we do have a large nation and per capita we don't fall on the list. But we still are on top regardless. Our 'civilized society', like we are something special to the rest of humanity.
The way I see it if you act like animals, you get treated like one. Oh, I forgot we should use the PC term mentally deranged or psychotic. Maybe we should lobotomize them, hoping it works, similar to 'A Clockwork Orange'.
People like you or me don't ever have to worry about getting the needle because we would never commit such an act. But why don't you go and talk to some death row inmates, in a room, by yourself and see the twisted minds of these people. The point being they are not like you and me at all.

Should the 911 conspirators be exempt from execution(if they did it to begin with)?
How about the Uni-bomber?
Timothy McVey?
Henry Lee Lucas & Ottis Toole? Gerald Stano? The Green River Killer: Gary Ridgway? John Wayne Gacy? Dean Corll? Wayne Williams? H. H. Holmes? Ted Bundy? David Berkowitz? Jeffrey Dahmer? Belle Sorenson Gunness? Charles Manson? Albert Fish? Coral Eugene Watts? Richard Angelo? Andrew Cunanan? Ed Gein?
Maybe we should make exceptions and not execute people like this becasue they are sick, mentally. (sarcasm)

Do you have children yet? I have 2 and if, nature forbid, someone ever did anything to them I would kill them myself! With my cold bare hands!
Some of the people listed above raped, tortured and killed kids - lots of them. I'm sorry I have no reservations for what I think should be done to individuals such as these.

Once our country becomes a 'civilized society' I will agree with you. But we are far from it, even by a long shot!
A lot needs to happen first and that list is too long to include here.
So back to where we started, until I see technology like this (minority report this time), I am for the death penalty:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ed30a521c271.jpg[/atsimg]

And just to make it clear, I am not for the death penalty in principle but there is no better choice on the table. Some times you have to make the best choice available for the times.
Give me an alternative other then putting these people in a cage to rot.
Killing a killer, I won't lose any sleep or tears over it!