Why is the sun setting at a diffirent point on the horizon than at the exact same date last year?

reply to post by captiva


I am so glad to see this post. Just last week, my daughter and I were driving west and noticed the sun was far more to the north than usual for this time of late evening. We both said something to the effect of 'what is the sun doing there?' I freaked both of us out and we didn't say much more but we both knew something was really different. We mentioned it at a family gathering a few days later and got the usual 'uh huh......'

But it was different than before. By a lot. And it made us really uneasy. I have not been on that stretch of road at that time since but have driven it for 16 years at all times of day and seasons and I know the position of the sun historically and what we saw last week was just wrong. I still get uneasy when I think about it because I know something has changed.

Hi Everyone, Love this site and finally had to comment on this thread. Every year we camp in the exact same spot at Easter and i watch the sun rise across the ocean between two large trees as markers, this year i was shocked because it was much more to the left almost obscured by one tree. That would make it more to the NE. It was discussed around the camp and eventually forgotten. Please someone can you tell me whats going on. Cheers!

reply to post by PatriciusCaesar


I, too, started noticing the change a few months ago. My house sits east-west, been here 30+ years, and have been an avid sun and sky watcher for as long as I can remember. The sun is setting much further north this year than I have ever witnessed, And, as others have posted, the ambient light seems different somehow--even on cloudy days! I hadn't mentioned it to anyone because I just thought it was the conspiracist in me looking for things that might now be there--lol.
Nana

Call me crazy, but why do the trees in the first photo have no leaves at all? I know summer in Scotland takes its time in showing up but they're bare.

Definitely looks like a winter photo as opposed to a summer photo unless the first two photos posted are the wrong ones .... idk.

I have a question. Why does it have to be the “whole earth shifted” scenario? (It just seems that way from all the posts I have read) Could it be possible that there has been minute “isolated” geological shifting? The continents are always shifting, moving, and rotating and there has been some serious shifting already (ie: Japan).

I know there are GPS markers that are monitored by satellites, I have come across a few on the internet but am not knowledgeable enough to completely understand what I am looking at to know if there has been any variances. Has anyone looked at them (if they are publicly available and has the history) to see degree of changes (if any)? It would account for some noticing discrepancies and others not. Even a small alteration can make considerable differences over distances.

Otherwise, I cannot personally speak to noticing anything unusual. Which is not saying a lot as I do not make it outside too often anymore and to be honest, short of the sun rising in the west I probably wouldn't notice.

reply to post by captiva

Taking a clock face to empahasise what I mean, The sun set at 12 last year, yet tonight it set at the 3.00 o,clock point.

The Sun Has been rising and setting in the same locations throughout the year for much longer than any of us have been around to observe it. You are describing a 90° change in position over a 12 month period. This means you are either sorely mistaken or a huge global event took place within this time period. Keep in mind that a 1° change is a very big event let alone 90°.

someone tell me what I did wrong there please?

If you are serious about finding out what is happening here then the answer is simple. Take a time stamped image from a specific location showing the setting Sun, similar to what you have now but more detailed. You need a line of sight reference from the same location that does not change over time. Take an image at a particular time, Solstices and Equinoxes preferred. Do the same thing the following year and compare.

The important thing is to maintain the same line of sight from the same exact location and time. The time stamps are for your records. My guess is that you will learn that you were sorely mistaken. Also keep in mind that a 90° change in the location of the Sun would be noticed by everyone. Think about this for a minute, the Sun set in the west and now you claim to watch it set in the north. I don't know, maybe it's just the skeptic in me but I think the problem resides in your personal perspective.

reply to post by captiva
I don't doubt your honesty, only the accuracy of this one claim: That both photos were taken at the same time of year. It is strange to me that given the apparent fact that you have only your own memory to support the date that the old photo was taken, that you don't consider the possibility that you are mistaken. If you take a picture at the racetrack today, will there be leaves on the trees in that photo?

This thread is getting silly, people want answers as to why they are experiencing this. I have provided answers yet they have been ignored. I guess a simple explanation is not good enough.

EDIT - defcon5 even posted an explanation lols.

Originally posted by doobydoll
reply to post by captiva

 

I have read somewhere that other people have said the same thing, the innuits I think. But i think some ... ahem .. 'experts' somewhere 'explained' that the sun only 'appeared' to be setting in a different place, due to gasses in the atmosphere and refraction of some sort? I can't remember how they explained it.

That explanation is here, I believe. If you click the audio pop-up to listen to the broadcast, you'll find the segment if you skip ahead to 18:30.

Climate Change: During our letters segment last week we also took a look at climate change from the top of the high Arctic. The cold has been a constant in Inuit life, pretty much forever. But warming weather, their lives are changing in ways the rest of us can barely imagine. Zacharias Kunuk is an Inuit film director who won the Palme D'Or at Cannes for Atanarjuat - The Fast Runner. Now, he has teamed up with environmental scientist, Ian Mauro to make a documentary about what a warming world looks like to his Inuit elders. We spoke with them a couple weeks ago in advance of the film's premiere. A few listeners wrote in with questions regarding something Ian Mauro said during the interview regarding the sun setting in a different place. Well the conversation then continued in our inbox and we shared a few of those letters ... one suggesting that we have Quirks & Quarks host, Bob MacDonald in to settle the confusion. So Bob McDonald, the host of CBC Radio's Quirks & Quarks came in to studio to help sort this out.

The reasoning Mr. MacDonald gives involves a cold body of water with warm air on top of it, which would be something that happens in the northern hemisphere around spring/early summer. There would be a layer of cold water sandwiched between the two that will act as a lens, bending light over the surface of the earth. The difference allows an observer to see light that is actually below the horizon and just makes it "look" like the sun is where it shouldn't be. I suppose this would make the sun look like it is also setting later in time since you are able to watch it for longer.

So they argue that Inuit elders observing the sun shift over their lifetime is due to global warming (increased air temperature).

*shrug* Haven't a clue how true or far-stretched it is, but there's that reasoning for you, and it fits the season given Scotland's location. Can't find much else, since what I read about other phenomena like the Chandler wobble and changes the International Earth Rotation Service tracks that astronomers take into account and whatnot sound too small to make a change like this.

Originally posted by glowie
Hi Everyone, Love this site and finally had to comment on this thread. Every year we camp in the exact same spot at Easter and i watch the sun rise across the ocean between two large trees as markers, this year i was shocked because it was much more to the left almost obscured by one tree. That would make it more to the NE. It was discussed around the camp and eventually forgotten. Please someone can you tell me whats going on. Cheers!

You were standing in a very slightly different position. Had you been a few yards to the left the sun wouldn't have risen between th trees at all.

Edit: and I suspect it's the same with the OP: the different sunset position is simply a matter of perspective.

The planetarium program on my IPhone shows the sun to be exactly where it's suppose to be. Problem solved. The Sun or Planet is exactly where it should be " Unless", the Government is secretly changing the alignment of the GPS satellites to make my iPhone show the Sun in the right place.

I Hope I haven't started another "Conspiracy". If I have, I apologise.

Originally posted by captiva
Good morning from Scotland and thanks for the responses. Some points...Important first. I can assure you both photographs were taken on the dates I stipulated. I dont care whether the trees say one was in autumn and one in summer. In Autumn winter here it gets dark at 4/4.30pm. Anyway, tonight at sunset I will go to the same spot and take the same photograph as the panorama.

Can I just add, There are way more people than me noticing diffirences worldwide going by the comments here and elsewhere.

Respects

So you will go to the "same spot" and take a panorama?
How do you "know" it's the same spot?
How do you know the camara is pointing at exactly the same azimuth(s)?

20 meters left or right can make a panorama appear to shift accordingly, a very radical shift considering the horizon, based on the distance to the nearest common point.

Couldnt get out due to a mobile studio shoot that over-ran. To be honest I dont realy care anyway.

This thread is not worth the time it took me to post it. Ive had doubts thrown on my professional capabilities, my method of work, my ability to stand in the same position to take a photograph, my memory and my ability to embed exif data in a picture that I said had no point of reference. To the poster asking if this was in Troon, no it was at the 4 furlong marker at Ayr Racecourse.

Were you ever sorry you asked a question? For those that offered opinions and ideas, thanks it was appreciated. For those who supported with their own examples, thanks appreciated.

Respects

reply to post by captiva

This thread will have been nothing but a waste of time if you gave up now. I seriously think you owe it to yourself to investigate this through.

Starting from a good view point with a permanent maker that can easily be identified, set up your camera and take time stamped photos. If you can do this on the first day of spring every year (vernal equinox) you will get a better understanding of what is going on. You can also do the solstices and autumnal equinox but the important thing is to get a few years of photos to compare with from the same corresponding time of year, first day of spring-summer...etc. At least you'll learn something and maybe enjoy the results, at worst you'll prove that the Earth has tilted and we are all doomed.

Seriously though, an Understanding of the apparent astronomical motions relative to our point of observation is a very valuable thing to have.

reply to post by captiva


I know my weather feels more tropical, but I honestly don't think all you recognize the dramatics of what you are saying. Basically, every single solar array would be worthless. Now I don't see any changes in how people use those things. Ergo, the sun is doing just fine.

reply to post by captiva

I noticed the same sun setting thing here in NW Florida but was sure if I should say anything..lol or not.

Originally posted by BIGPoJo
This thread is getting silly, people want answers as to why they are experiencing this. I have provided answers yet they have been ignored. I guess a simple explanation is not good enough.

EDIT - defcon5 even posted an explanation lols.

edit on 3-6-2011 by BIGPoJo because: more info

I'm curious of you and defcons credentials. Surely you both are PHD's in astronomy, as well as doctorates in geology and paleontology? No? Then enough from you people who lack the common sense to bake a cake or do your laundry without shrinking it pretending to be something your not. Personally I think your part of a disinfo campaign.
I have also noticed this myself and just yesterday talked to a lady I work with which I don't ever talk to about anything outside of the job who also, without me mentioning anything, described exactly what this thread is discussing. She is over fifty and lives in the house she grew up in here in kansas city. She is a lifelong gardner and mentioned to me she noticed the sun setting off course in comparison to all her years on this earth. Without her knowing anything about me or my "beliefs" of this world, and without leading her in anyway she said exactly what I expected, "Its setting more NW than I've ever seen it". She even had points of reference, trees due west that form a "V" shape towards horizon.

reply to post by ludshed

And yet, I see the Sun set exactly where it should be as we move toward the solstice. I know exactly which peak of the mountains it will set behind on the 21st. The same one it has set behind for the 15 years I've been living here.

And no PhD required.

Originally posted by captiva
Couldnt get out due to a mobile studio shoot that over-ran. To be honest I dont realy care anyway.

This thread is not worth the time it took me to post it. Ive had doubts thrown on my professional capabilities, my method of work, my ability to stand in the same position to take a photograph, my memory and my ability to embed exif data in a picture that I said had no point of reference. To the poster asking if this was in Troon, no it was at the 4 furlong marker at Ayr Racecourse.

Were you ever sorry you asked a question? For those that offered opinions and ideas, thanks it was appreciated. For those who supported with their own examples, thanks appreciated.

Respects

You're probably right, its not worth it. A sight with limited resources like ATS wouldn't have the ability or intellect to answer a question like this. It would take to many people from to many places around the sphere working together, without the interference of the idiots and bots. We would need at least one physicist, astronomer and some powerful hardware/software to figure out all the variables. If something happened with the ecliptic, position of the crust over the mantle or some other event there should be 2 places on the globe that wouldn't be as effected, and from those points radiating outwards to the horizon would be more extreme. And I don't think precession of the equinoxes is the culprit. 1 degree every 72 years doesn't seem plausible.