If Ending Loveless Orgasm Is The Fingerprint to Enlightenment Than Veganism Is The Full Body Resurre

Chicken nuggets, anyone?

It is well worth spending the extra money for "happy meat" (free range etc.) when you just gotta have it for some reason. Otherwise the plant kingdom happily provides us with everything we could possibly need without any negative feedback or side effects.

Originally posted by MIDNIGHTSUN

Eating meat is what I called soul food. I prefer being a vegan because I rather evolve into a being that have no need to consume another living creature.

So do you kill your own animal? what keeps you from taking their life with your own hand.

Disagree, tremendously. I respect your descision, I expect likewise. I'd kill an animal to feed my family and I, if it were to the point of survival living. I don't need meat to live but it is something that makes life, at the moment, a little more pleasurable. Living in a time like that, it could bring up our spirits tremendously, I percieve it quite contrary to how you percieve it. Perception can be everything.

If you're saying meat slows down the "ascension" process, it is what it is. Certainly won't stop it.

"So please, when you think about eating meat, please think about robbing an animal’s life and devouring the body of a soul."

No one should feel bad about any choice they make. Be conscious, but please don't tell others to dwell in negativity when it is a time one should be enjoying and replenishing their bodies with food which mother nature has given us, whether or not you think it is right.

I was looking for some opinion on your 'loveless orgasm' but found nothing apart from a sensationalist headline. Hey they can even use sex to sell veganism/vegitarianism nowadays and I thought they only used it to sell cars and beer!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
The meat of the animals we eat is, for the most part, tortured animal meat.

I still enjoy a little meat, but I only eat it a couple of times a week, and I think dietary wise, that should be the maximum for most, and if things continue, will be. Essentially we do not need meat, there are other sources of protein and far more nutritious ones at that, but more significantly, the carbon factor will eventually preclude mass meat production and the price of that meat which is reared will become prohibitive to most consumers eventually.

As hunters, we respected the animal and it's giving of it's life so we could live, and nature by giving back to the Earth the first cut of the meat. But then, hunting was a matter of necessity for survival, the animal both fed and clothed. With settlement and domesticated animals, we didn't need to show respect for nature and instead sacrificed 100 cattle to show god how clever we were and what glutons it allowed us to be.

reply to post by MIDNIGHTSUN


The OP and I probably conceive of spirituality differently in some important ways, but I do recognize his/her purity of vision. My basic problem, however, is that it presupposes a level of purity in human society that I believe is not possible in the world I expect to live the rest of my life in. In short, the seems to OP presuppose a "purer land" than anything I've yet to come across in this world. Most people's morality (mine own included) puts my family first, friends next, and local society next, followed by country and then humanity. Since survival is often harsh, in most cases humans have enough trouble juggling these inputs without worrying about animals.

My take on it is that if you are able to walk on this earth and take such a pure line, you are being protected somehow from a heavy burden of survival. Consider what underlies this worldview...what supports it, makes it possible? For example, even if you, personally, do that but continue to post on the internet, are you really any more ethical, or are you just fooling yourself?: Look at that plastic keyboard you are pecking away at. Consider the rare-earth elements in the eletronic wiring, collected in Central Africa or Western China by what is really modern-day slave-labor. Consider the petroleum in the plastic, and contemplate what political and economic networks are in place to bring you that keyboard. No matter how pure you make yourself, personally, as long as you are using that keyboard (or taking that medicine, driving that car, using those window-curtains, etc...) you are implicitly endorsing and receiving support from these networks. Not quite so stainless after all, perhaps...?

Another point: It seems that marching out into the world with this kind of stainless morality in general will put 99% of humanity on a conveyer-belt to the morgue. If you are addressing your comments to a more "spiritually elite" group then that's arguably a stlightly matter. Nevertheless, some of history's bloodiest episodes came from trying to impose too-perfect, too-crystalline, too-symmetrical forms of mystical morality on warts-and-all human societies. Just something to consider...

I think the only reasonable arguments for eating meat is the following:

1.No present alternative source of food.
2.No present alternative source of protein.
3.You are a monk or person who accepts whatever is given to them.

Every other argument seems illogical, especially that of pleasure and desire.

Peace.

reply to post by tothetenthpower

On a side note, I don't think that sex and enlightment are in the same category, an enlightened person would not need any form of sexual gratification in order to feel content or enlightened.

Well Sex is a very natural activity i think it should be tied in with enlightenment and the path to human Transcendence and Ascent. It is very much part of so-called spirituality and reconciliation and recognition with our fellow human beings.

I am agnostic and hold no beliefs in any religion on this speck of dust in the Star system (Sol) In the Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy in The Universe.

I do have thoughts about transcendence but none of the concepts are tied to the Religions of this Earth. I believe God is just a concept contrived by man it does not have much credence; although it may be a possibility a slim one at that.

So maybe through technology and Science we shall Ascend or Transcend. But not in a spiritual sense in a real Sense.

Maybe humans contrived the term souls to cope with being non-existent after their passing; cause their feeble minds are afraid of being dead for eternity.

Eternal Death after beautiful Life.

Sounds good to me.

I'm fascinated when I read or hear such things to justify being a vegetarian. I have three acquaintances who chose to be vegetarians (one is a vegan) and literally overnight they begin to think their chosen eating pattern is the way to nirvana for the rest of the world for which they began evangelizing it as a be all end all.

Here's my take on food consumption. I studied my ancestors to see what it was they ate that kept them healthy and filled with vigor their entire lives which by the way they were very spiritual people. I incorporated those foods into my diet which required me to cook at home. Secondly I listen to my body as much as possible. I've had days when large bowls of salads and veggie soups left me feeling satisfied but on most days you will find some meat on my plate. My attitude is to each their own, so if you or anyone else feel more enlightened because you don't partake of meat then more power to you.

Are my friends more enlightened because they don't eat meat? No.IMHO, enlightenment is not based on foods necessarily, it's about the intangible, that which you can not see.

About the eating of animal souls, from my perspective that don't make any sense because the soul is not tangible like a pork chop. If it were we humans would be in a lot of trouble not because of animals but mankind.

Also if I was to go by your logic, wouldn't plants have a soul? So when you sit down to a plate of veggies are you not consuming the souls of plants?

what is all this "fight to live and eat meat" garbage doing i here? that makes no sense.

From what I understand, the original ideas on reincarnation out of ancient India include plants as possible bodies for the reincarnation of souls. So, depending on which religous faith you ascribe to, the spiritual part may not actually matter so much on whether you decide to be vegetarian. Certain sets of living cells get eaten for the benefit of other organisms. I think I remember a scientific study that showed that even plant cells can be stressed and signal that stress to other nearby cells.

Also, I had an Indian friend who told me that the actual origin of not eating cattle originated with an Indian king who wanted all the beef for his own household and forbade anyone else from slaughtering them. Then as time went on, it just became incorporated into the ethno-religious culture.

Anyways, it doesn't matter to me whether you prefer to eat only non-animal foods (mushrooms are not plants). As long as that doesn't end up as a mandate for the rest of us not to eat animals either. Still, it does seeem odd that, with all the promoted healthiness of eating vegetarian, doctors encourage children in vegetarian families to take nutritional supplements.

reply to post by jetflock


Answer quickly: You lost your job, are homeless, and your daughter is crying because she hasn't eaten the last two meals. Do you give her the meat-containing sandwich offered by a kind helping hand or do you turn your back on it and console your daughter with a sermon on mystical veganism?

Originally posted by TheUniverse

Maybe humans contrived the term souls to cope with being non-existent after their passing; cause their feeble minds are afraid of being dead for eternity.

Or to explain the loss of those they loved and still wanted to be close by.

Most religions, are in essence cults of death, the ones that are left anyway. We used to celebrate living, and would thus die filled with wonderful memories and a wealth of experiences. That's why I don't go in for religions so much, far too much emphasis on what happens 'next' and not enough on the 'now', but that is why states need religion, they need to tell people what a wonderful time their going to have after they go and get themselves killed on the battlefield. Or after they have worked themselves through a dreary life, obligingly and unquestioningly adhering to duty...there has to be some reward for all that self-less service, doesn't there? And, of course, punishment for those that don't? Religion is needed when you have 'haves' and 'have nots', because those adhering to duty are a spiteful bunch and they need to feel superior to others more fortunate, or perhaps just happier than them.

So lots of reasons for lots of different people from different walks of life to need to invent a meaning to all this, heaven forbid that 'this' should be all that there is (though as an agnostic, personally, I can commit to neither possibility).

Originally posted by TheUniverse
Eternal Death after beautiful Life.

Sounds good to me.

Me too. Though they shall have to take me kicking and screaming

Choose life

Until we exist in a reality that allows for every body to be wholly nourishes by a non animal diet, I'm sticking with that which keeps myself and my family healthy, energetic, mentally clear and strong. Grains, for two of us, even if sprouted and soaked cause major problems. We've had problems with demineralization which a diet rich in pastured animal products and vitamin A has remedied. I can go on about our experiences that prove to me that not every body's nutrient needs, assimilation ability, and additional biochemical processes are the same.

Regardless of one's spiritual attainment in this lifetime on this level, it is not enough to modify your inborn physical makeup to accept sustenance that your body was not designed to process. It is very true that there are those who do better on veg diets, and those who don't, but that has nothing to do with spiritual superiority, it has to do with your physical make up.

I would love to be able to be vegan, as it's not a matter of just liking meat too much. By my body just doesn't function well on it. As a nutritionist, I've roved over all the possibilities of sustaining nutrient needs with meat and without meat, but some pretty funky things happen to not just me, but family as well when we consume strictly vegan fare. It doesn't matter how raw, sprouted or soaked things are, doesn't matter what probiotics or enzymes are added in, it's just bad news for us.

Your intentions are wonderful and if it works for you that's awesome! But I think we need to evolve spiritually as human beings on a much grander scale, and then manifest or evolve into a physicality where our bodies are in harmony with a surrounding that intends for veg and sunlight consumption rather than animal. I think this physicality can only support that choice for some, whose bodies were born with the ability to assimilate certain foods better. Does that make any one person better than the other, or more inclined to attain spiritual enlightenment? I don't think so. We don't choose to incarnate into a body that will support ethical choices, we incarnate into an environment that will challenge us to advance on our spiritual journey.

reply to post by davidchin


That reminds me of what I just saw in this video recently. This kid talks about that at about the 20 minute mark. Interesting.

reply to post by seeker11


I agree with you, and your post sounded like myself. I'm also a vegetarian in the same sense that you are. I was married to a man who ate mostly meat- we were the odd couple. It wasn't the reason we split up, but since we have I've been saving so so so much money in grocery bills, and I do enjoy not having meat around the kitchen.

What did you mean about the blood types? I have never heard that! Please tell me more.

As far as the enlightenment of the OP- well, I think my personal beliefs do tend towards the idea that there is a purity in vegetarianism that I do feel. But there are more paths than one, and we all have to find our own ways.

We all need to do what's right for us- I'm not a militant vegetarian- I'm not hostile to people who do eat meat, and in return I do appreciate the respect of those carnivores who will refrain from ridiculing and attacking the vegetarian lifestyle.

And yes, all you carnivores should at the very least show some respect for the lives and feelings of the animals who are killed, and do everything you possibly can to promote humane treatment of animals. That shouldn't be too much to ask.

Check out the nutrient profile of an algae called E3 Aphanizomenon flos-aquae (AFA)

www.e3live.com.au...

And you'll begin to get a sense for what the plant kingdom has to offer us..

P.S. For any who are interested, here's the recipe (in part) for my Superfood Supersmoothie

NAM's Superfood Supersmoothie


It's a real rush to consume, let me tell you. Beats the # out of the feeling you get from eating tortured meat that's for sure.

I wish it was possible to live a healthy life without consuming even plants. Plants are very much sentient. They eat, drink, sleep, breath, and bleed. Deciduous trees hibernate. Flowers and all plants follow the sunlight during a day. Plants respond to stress stimuli. Plants grow better under positive spirited cultivation.

From the research I have read, a meatless diet is both healthier and more natural for humans.

• Carnivores and Omnivores have sharp-pointed teeth, claws, or talons for tearing meat.
Humans have flat teeth more suited for grinding.

• Carnivore saliva and stomach acid has a high acidic level to help digest meat.
Humans have lower stomach acid, similar to plant eaters.
Humans have alkaline saliva with the ptyalin enzyme that helps digest grains.

• Carnivores have enlogated intestinal tracks to help digest meat.
Humans have an intestinal track ratio similar to plant eaters.

• Cancer institutes, research studies, and professionals around the world have linked red meat consumption to increased risk from multiple cancers, heart diseases, and overall mortality from any cause.

• Humans can live healthy without meat, however humans can not live healthy being deficient in grains, nuts, fruits, or plants.

• Nearly all natural cancer cures involve removing red meat and dairy from one's diet.


I have drastically reduced my meat consumption, although I haven't fully given it up. I no longer eat meat with every single meal, nor every single day. I also agree that animals are sentient, conscious, and fully aware creatures with souls. Spend enough time with any animal and you will see it, even with aquarium fish!

I always believed the soul departs from the body on death, and is an energetic essence. I doubt we consume any soul upon consumption of meat. I do know that the stress of death translates into the release of hormones and poisonous toxins within the blood and tissue of the animal; that can't be too good for us.

Thanks for this nice thread and talking point. Peace be with you