Conservatism (and neo-conservatism) is the root of all of our problems in America.

reply to post by newcovenant


A lot like the seat belt law. Nanny State pure and simple. The govt knows best. It's all for your own good.

Originally posted by buster2010
Conservatism isn't what is wrong with this country capitalism is whats wrong with this country. Conservatives like Ron Paul have alot of great ideas for this country. Capitalist however care nothing about this country all they care about is keeping the elite above everyone else. This country started going down hill when it decided to embrace the profit motive.

You're confusing capitalism with corporatism. That mom and pop restaurant down the street is practicing capitalism. Wal-Mart is practicing corporatism. Capitalism (good) is business for profit. That's all, nothing more or less. Corporatism (evil) is to capitalism as an earthworm is to an anaconda. They look alike, but one of them will squeeze you death and eat you whole.

/TOA

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by buster2010
Conservatism isn't what is wrong with this country capitalism is whats wrong with this country. Conservatives like Ron Paul have alot of great ideas for this country. Capitalist however care nothing about this country all they care about is keeping the elite above everyone else. This country started going down hill when it decided to embrace the profit motive.

You're confusing capitalism with corporatism. That mom and pop restaurant down the street is practicing capitalism. Wal-Mart is practicing corporatism. Capitalism (good) is business for profit. That's all, nothing more or less. Corporatism (evil) is to capitalism as an earthworm is to an anaconda. They look alike, but one of them will squeeze you death and eat you whole.

/TOA

Great point. I wonder if we knew Walmart was going to put so many families, workers and generations of people out of jobs, out of cities and out of hope, while they support China and suppress their own employees, I wonder if we'd be so keen to save the supasized Walmart shoppers those few extra dollars so they can double their cheeto consumption?

"Capitalism is a social system based on the principle of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned.""

When we talk about private property, surely the land of this planet belongs to everyone, not just those who can afford to own their little chunk of it?

What happens when we get to a state where those with wealth can buy more and more private property, leaving the public with less and less. On that private property they also have resources,again resources that essentially belong to everyone. With the private ownership of property and resources the public are left with less and less while the wealthy own more and more.

I'm with you all the way OP.

The rest that are against are brainwashed against everything that has to do with sharing.
Just in case you didn't know, if you help people they might help you back after especially if they know they've been helped. Sweden is making a wonderful job and it has nothing to do with being a small country.

They are well educated and think has a country, not has individuals that step on each other has much as in the US.
For you guys saying : It's my money! ...you are just manipulated with the same type of anti-communism propaganda only now for everything that has to do with words that start with socia.

Yes, the problem is corruption, companies and the central bank...but conservatism is not helping the US get out of this s***

If USA was first based more on socialism, life would not be perfect, but at least you would not be stuck in this economic crisis that the USA is spreading in half the world.

Conservatism and Co. has been more likely financially hijacked to protect the interests of junkies of money-making and use moral values to convince the voters while sharpening their knife. Many international corporations seek machine-like efficiency to make profits, seeing it in numbers instead of peoples. They should seek a healthier stability.

Some post I'm reading here are perplexing. Yes, in more socialized countries, taxes are higher to provide essential services to many people who would be unable otherwise to afford them. Why ? Well, first of all, this system exists because most cared about the well being of others. Resolving problems cannot happen without funding and I believe we cannot trust corporations who have financial interests in the matter to help us.

If we want to live in a civilized society, we do need centralized regulations and programs to prevent abuse and try to resolve fundamental problems at their roots. To be truly free would be to return to the law of the jungle and equal opportunities would not exist.


Is it so hard to see beyond one's self...

It all boils down to really simple terms..

Whats more important? Money/wealth/resources? Or Life?
What is your priority? The collection of material goods, or your fellow man? "Ownership" is an abstract human concept. You don't really "own" anything. The only thing you can truly own is what you come into this world with. All of these "things" have been here before you, and they will be here well after you are gone. Our priorities as a society have been shifted by those who use us to "collect" more material wealth, but we're too blinded by our own greed to see it.

We are only here for a short time, should we really be spending all the time we have playing a game of "collection"? We have turned life into a video game, with a "score", where if one has "more" they "win". But what do they/we really "win"?

Shame on us,
Doomed from the start,
May god have mercy on our dirty little hearts,
Shame on us,
For all we have done,
And all we ever were,
just Zeros and Ones.

Nine Inch Nails, Zero Sum

reply to post by SpeachM1litant

Political ideology is not the root of all problems in the U.S. It is corruption, idiocy and irationality. Liberalism and Conservatism are the same thing, once they lose rationality become idiotic and corrupt, then that is when you have the problems wich are occuring currently in the U.S.

I wish it was that simple. Liberalism and Conservatism are just the dog & pony show used to deflect the attention of the masses from the real problem.

The true problem is that there are group(s) of people with long range plans that control much of the world including the USA. For example History, HACCP and the Food Safety Con Job documents a seventy year long plan for removing independent farmers from their land. The reason is two fold: To provide a surplus of cheap labor and to monopolize the food supply. The plan was extended to all the world with the ratification of the World Trade Organization Agreement on Ag.

Clinton set up the present economic mess that caused food riots ON PURPOSE with the ratification of WTO, NAFTA, entry of China into the WTO, The “Freedom to Fail” 1996 Farm bill. He even admits it!

Today's global food crisis shows "we all blew it, including me when I was president," by treating food crops as commodities instead of as a vital right of the world's poor, Bill Clinton told a U.N. gathering on Thursday. UNITED NATIONS, Oct. 23, 2008

President Bill Clinton... publicly apologized last month for forcing Haiti to drop tariffs on imported, subsidized US rice during his time in office. The policy wiped out Haitian rice farming and seriously damaged Haiti’s ability to be self-sufficient. www.democracynow.org...

The economic collapse of the USA (with the EU following) was also set up as a long range plan:

The City of London & the Fabian Society: History & Current Plans

“We are at present working discreetly, but with all our might, to wrest this mysterious force called sovereignty out of the clutches of the local national states of the world. And all the time we are denying with our lips what we are doing with our hands.” Arnold Toynbee Fabian Society – City Of London
centurean2.wordpress.com... and anticorruptionsociety.com...

Can we see these plans at work?

We will start with a Repub:

The Looting of U.S. Corporations under Reagan...

The "deregulation" that occurred under Ronald Reagan resulted in the takeover and looting of many cash-rich U.S. corporations through leveraged buyouts involving junk bonds.....

This looting resulted in the loss of many jobs and in the significant reduction of pension benefits. Many corporate pension plans that were well-funded and invested in very safe securities were closed. The proceeds were used to set up new pension plans through the purchase of junk bonds. This scam was permitted by the passage of a law that allowed a pension plan to be closed and a new one established, provided that the new pension plan had the same "expected benefits" as the old plan. Pension actuaries were paid off to attest that this was the case. The sellers of the junk bonds made out like bandits. But when the junk bonds collapsed, many retirees saw their pension benefits reduced significantly--in some cases by more than two-thirds......

Next on to a Democrat.
CLINTON:
Clinton was the President who Ratified the North American Free Trade Agreement and the World Trade Organization Treaties and then got China admitted to the WTO.

Gene Sperling (Clinton's head of the National Economic Council) and William Daley (Clinton's Sec of Commerce) worked on China’s entry into the World Trade Organization, an event which caused millions of manufacturing jobs in U.S. to be permanently lost. Currently General Electric CEO Jeffery Immelt has been tapped to lead a newly created Council on Jobs and Competitiveness. Obama is appointing this team of three Internationalists to spearhead his economic policies.

Next is the Banking fiasco. Clinton signed into law many of the "new improved" Banking Laws that lead to the Economic meltdown:


Consolidation of Mega Banks, AIG Bailout and Foreclosuregate: Quick list of Banking laws

After the Great Depression, several laws were put in place to prevent another depression. The 1933 and 1934 Security and Exchange laws, The McFadden Act of 1927, The Glass-Steagall Act or Banking Act of 1933. Also Bank Holding Company Act of 1956.

Clinton's laws Negating above: Riegle-Neal Interstate Banking and Branching Efficiency Act of 1994 and Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999

More pro-banking Clinton laws:
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation Improvement Act of 1991: Allowed big banks to gobble up smaller banks more easily.

Housing and Community Development Act of 1992 and RTC Completion Act - Housing and business loans to unqualified minorities.

Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 - left CDSs unregulated and set up AIG bailout and Foreclosuregate. A Great article detailing the set up of the AIG bailout and Foreclosuregate.

BACK to a repub.
BUSH- the AIG bailout and DOUBLING the money supply. (AIG, was 80% nationalized by the U.S. government)

Obama - Continue Bankrupting the American people and destroying the dollar, Effectively lower wages to "international levels" using QE 2 and possibly QE 3

Obama-Dodd financial bill would further enrich Goldman Sachs The "bill would reward the firm with potentially billions of dollars by instituting a so-called “resolution authority” that would, in practice, be a permanent bailout fund."

“To ensure that the mortgage servicer pushes default instead of workout, the servicer is paid double (50 basis points versus 25 basis points) by the MBS to service a loan in default. Why do you think your servicer tells you that you must be in default before it will consider a mortgage modification, a practice known as invited default?

“Simply put,” says Parker, “the government bailout of AIG has actually encouraged foreclosures because the taxpayers continue to fill AIG’s coffers with enough cash to pay out insurance on defaulted home loans.”

...CDS premium revenue is not restricted to those who might have actual losses or real assets to protect. You can bet as much as you want and create as many CDS as you want....
www.realtytrac.com...

For those into conspiracies, much of this can be linked back to the Rhodes Scholarships, set up by Cecil Rhodes and run by the Rothschilds and the Fabians who set up the London School of Economics where many bankers and future leaders are trained. (Fabian Society Literally Control the European Union)

Carroll Quigley, an influential former history professor at the Foreign Service Schools of Georgetown University. ...Bill Clinton's mentor,.. [stated]

"There does exist, and has existed for a generation, an international Anglophile network which operates, to some extent in the way the radical Right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any other groups, and frequently does so. I know of the operation of this network because I have studied it for twenty years, and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960s, to examine its papers and secret records.... [I]n general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown...."[5]

In other words, this conspiracy was international from the start. And, beginning with the British diamond magnate, Cecil Rhodes, it was grounded in enormous wealth -- riches acquired through capitalism, not through the global socialism it envisions for all but the elite. The key players were power-driven bankers, rich corporations, and tax-free foundations that controlled the resources needed to buy the cooperation of publishers,
media moguls, educational institutions, and government leaders across the political spectrum.... www.crossroad.to...

Originally posted by SG-17
reply to post by DelMar

 

The thing is those taxes can be that high because their economy is strong enough that people make more money than they can use.

So, you are for the Government sticking a gun to these people's heads and forcing them to hand over the "money the can't use"?

I would much rather take my excess money and donate it to the charity of my choice, invest in my family or help my local community. Charitable giving is good for one's soul, forced charity is theft.

Originally posted by Finalized
I would much rather take my excess money and donate it to the charity of my choice, invest in my family or help my local community. Charitable giving is good for one's soul, forced charity is theft.

edit on 5/27/2011 by Finalized because: (no reason given)

A lot of talk and no act.
Don't try to sound generous, we all know you would rather just stuff your pockets then helping others.

The people that has a lot of money are not generous, it just makes sense. Because if they we're generous, they wouldn't have a lot of money in the first place. You sound just has selfish then the next.

You do not give to charity, you do not invest in family, you do not help your community.

That's we're taxes come in. Who anyway, is going to say : I have excess money.

Sorry but, the people around us and your government is in a better place to make that judgment.
Although, that last sentence would only be 100% real in utopia

Now the op has presented an idea that sound well and good, but there is an old saying, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. There were countries in history that did exactly just that. They provided all that the op has put down, even provided for the people till the day they died. According to them, they were a socialistic democrat, willing to go the extra mile for their citizens, however, there was one small draw back. Do we really want to live under the NAZI system of government? After all they were a democratic socialist? After all I here that Peron was such a good leader, that after Eva died, he had to escape to another country to save his hide. Do you really think that the USSR, was such a good place to live, that fell apart. If you do not like the USA, people will tell you to get out, on the other hand, I am one of the few that will tell you that if you do not like the USA, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Yes many other countries may have it better than the US, however, there is no other place in the world where you can live and have the very freedoms that allow you to be on line and speak out like this. Did you vote in the last 10 elections? Did you even participate in the democratic process? How about work on a campaign? Be it that you want to admit it or not, the country needs conservatives that are in power right now, as they balance out the liberals. While the liberals come up with good ideas, it is the conservatives that look at not what we can do, but how to pay for it. The things cost money and ultimately, we can neither afford those programs or the costs. Our debt is out of control, and it seems that when the liberals are in power, they turn out to be corrupt, after all why does a business that can afford healthcare need a waver that was handed out by Pelosi? Or why is it that those cities and states that have a more liberal policy, why are they going bankrupt where they can no longer afford such? Do you think it is right that you have to pay for someone who chooses not to work? If you are going to come up with an idea to help the public, at least have the common courtesy to come up with an idea that will pay for it, and not be like another handout ponzi scheme that the US has so many of right now.

Originally posted by Quadrivium

You do relise that only about 51 percent of Americans pay FEDERAL taxes, right?

Fixed that for you.

I know this doesn't fit your argument, but everyone pays taxes. It's unavoidable. Gas, food, retail items. No one pays zero taxes unless they are dead, or not consuming.

reply to post by User8911

A lot of talk and no act. Don't try to sound generous, we all know you would rather just stuff your pockets then helping others.....

What a load of B.S.!!!!!

Charity has been around for a long, long time. Well before the government ever got involved. My Mom (50 & 60's) gave a couple days of week to "charity" and so did most others in our town including the Doctor and Dentist who gave no fee or reduced fee medical services.

More recently I donated a semi-trailer and helped collect donations for Katrina. It was the blasted GOVERNMENT who turned back the donations! seeTHE US GOVERNMENT DID NOT FAIL ITS MISSION IN THE WAKE OF HURRICANE KATRINA The mission was NOT charity, it was not to protect citizens, but to protect the government and keep it functioning.


Force "Charity" through taxes is actually a rather nasty practice when you think about it.

Politician A steals from person B (taxes) and gives to Person C.

Everyone praises Politician A for his "Generosity" although all he did was steal from person B so he could win the vote from person C

Person B when he protests is villified by both A & C because he is not "Generous" like person A even though it is HIS wealth that is actually being given to person C.

If A is a private person we would call them a thief or kleptomaniac, but since it is a "politician" who is looking out for the "greater good" of the masses we praise it.

No wonder politicians LOVE progressive/socialism.


Here is the other side that the liberals never look at. Last I checked I pay 64.5% of my income in taxes. If I did not have to pay all those taxes, I would invest more in my small business.

Pew Report on Industrial Agriculture

....The economic disparity between industrial farms and those that retain locally owned and controlled farms may be due in part, to the degree in which money stays in the community. Locally owned and controlled farms tend to buy their supplies and services locally, thus supporting a variety of local businesses.

This phenomenon is known as the economic “multiplier” effect, estimated at approximately seven dollars per dollar earned by the locally owned farm.

The money that is taxed does nothing for the local economy. Actually MOST of those taxes end up in the pockets of the bankers. Over 40% of our 14 trillion federal debt is owed to the FED and more is owed to individual banks. ALL that debt was bought with fiat money created out of thin air!

And that is not the worst of it. By creating money and increasing the money supply MORE of the wealth is stolen from the common people. From the beginning of 1964 ($54 billion) to the end of 2010 ( $2047 billion) the bankers have made $1995 billion dollars in fiat currency! That is the amount they increased the money supply

That is a factor of 36! The minimum wage in 1964 was $1.15. Is the minimum wage now $41.78????

Of course not but the CEOs are not about to take the same pay cut as the serfs.

In 1976 A typical American CEO earned 36 times as much as the average worker. By 2008 the average CEO pay increased to 369 times that of the average worker. timelines.ws...

Since the formation of the Federal Reserve, the purchasing power of the dollar has fallen almost 96%.

Charity is fine when it is kept local. Americans had the reputation of being some of the most generous people in the world. WHY??? Because they earned a decent wage and THEIR needs and the needs of their family we satisfied so they could pay attention to the needs of others.

America is the most charitable country on earth.

Originally posted by User8911

Originally posted by Finalized
I would much rather take my excess money and donate it to the charity of my choice, invest in my family or help my local community. Charitable giving is good for one's soul, forced charity is theft.

edit on 5/27/2011 by Finalized because: (no reason given)

A lot of talk and no act.
Don't try to sound generous, we all know you would rather just stuff your pockets then helping others.

The people that has a lot of money are not generous, it just makes sense. Because if they we're generous, they wouldn't have a lot of money in the first place. You sound just has selfish then the next.

You do not give to charity, you do not invest in family, you do not help your community.

That's we're taxes come in. Who anyway, is going to say : I have excess money.

Sorry but, the people around us and your government is in a better place to make that judgment.
Although, that last sentence would only be 100% real in utopia

There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start.

1.) I'd rather "stuff" my pockets? With WHAT? All my "extra" money laying around .... If I wasn't taxed at every turn, I would give more than I currently do (and I DO contribute to charities, because it makes me feel good) to charities of my choice. I also donate my time to help charitable causes. Do you?

2.) People have a lot of money because they work hard and make smart decisions, not because they're "not generous". Are you currently in the workforce? Have you paid taxes?

3.) Government "spreading the wealth" via taxes TAKES AWAY the soul satisfying feeling of charitable giving and makes it a bureaucratic function. Because people assume that the Government is taking care of it, they don't give. You really think a bureaucracy is the best way to help people? Go stand in line at a DMV sometime and let me know if you want that type of process and thinking to be the way people in need are helped.

4.) Taxes are theft, plain and simple. You see, I trade my most valuable commodity in my life, my time, in exchange for money. My time on this planet is finite and I would rather spend it with my family, friends, pursuing my interests and learning. However, to put a roof over my head and food on the plate for my family, I have to use this most precious commodity to work. Anyone who takes my money without my permission is claiming ownership of my life by stealing my time.

Yes, taxes are a necessary evil to pay for basic government functions as authorized by the Constitution and I'm willing to pay for that amount, but charitable giving should be left up to me. If you really think people wouldn't give more if they had more money in your pocket, then you have very low esteem for humanity and I pity you.

5.) You do not give to charity - I lost a child, I donate regularly to the March of Dimes, how dare you
6.) You do not invest in family - That's the majority of what I do, I do want to send my kids to college, I do want to feed, shelter and cloth them. My extended family, all I do is help out with chores and tasks when I visit
7.) You do not help your community - Depends on how you define this, I'm involved at the grassroots of an activist organization, I regularly speak at "community gatherings" about legislation and my wife is a citizen lobbyist, I help where my talents are best utilized

And that, is the point, where MY talents are best utilized... only I know where I can make the greatest impact, not some nameless, faceless bureaucrat in some nondescript office "somewhere.

reply to post by Finalized


Oh please, the Swedes aren't forced "at gunpoint" to pay their taxes. They do it willingly. Why? Because they get so many great things out of it. I forgot to mention earlier but they get free college/university education too.

Originally posted by SG-17
reply to post by Finalized

 

Oh please, the Swedes aren't forced "at gunpoint" to pay their taxes. They do it willingly. Why? Because they get so many great things out of it. I forgot to mention earlier but they get free college/university education too.

When the Government can seize everything you own and throw you in jail for not paying taxes, that is the equivalent to putting a gun to your head.

You think all Swedes happily pay their taxes and don't think the Government is taking too much?

Tax Evasion and Self-Employment in a High-Tax Country: Evidence from Sweden

Our results confirm the underreporting hypothesis. In particular, we estimate that households with at least one self-employed member underreport their total incomes by around 30 percent. Under-reporting appears to be twice as prevalent among self-employed people with unincorporated businesses as among those with incorporated businesses.

reply to post by woodwardjnr

....With the private ownership of property and resources the public are left with less and less while the wealthy own more and more.

So you are "Against Private Property" ownership??? You want it "owned by the people" And what happens in that type of system??? It has been tried a number of times in various ways.

You have to have some sort of government or you end up with the "Law of the Jungle" So you have a government and due to inherent human nature the Sociopaths rise to the top of the pack and become the "Leaders." You end up with a de-facto Feudal System. A group of Aristocrats and downtrodden serfs.... if you are lucky. Mass murder if you are not.

DO a search with these names and Genocide.
LENIN

STALIN

HITLER

POL POT

CASTRO


I am amazed how activists never seem to learn from history. But then they are fed socialist propaganda in school instead of the real history: Here is the American failed Socialist Experiment

Originally posted by SG-17
reply to post by Finalized

 

Oh please, the Swedes aren't forced "at gunpoint" to pay their taxes. They do it willingly. Why? Because they get so many great things out of it. I forgot to mention earlier but they get free college/university education too.

Here is the foundation of your ignorance.
They pay taxes willingly, but get free College? That is in direct contradiction to itself.
It is not free if one pays taxes for it.
You have not a clue about anything other then what Media Matters or any Soros Foundation has spoon fed you.

reply to post by SG-17


If I’m paying taxes for services, than those services are not free. There are plenty of intelligent arguments against what you post but you pay them no heed.

A closed mind perhaps? You knew right from the get go that you would not entertain counterpoints and other facts that have been presented. Why even post a thread if you are not willing to engage in actual debate based upon fact rather than wishful thinking.

reply to post by Vio1ion

.....
If we want to live in a civilized society, we do need centralized regulations and programs to prevent abuse and try to resolve fundamental problems at their roots. To be truly free would be to return to the law of the jungle and equal opportunities would not exist.


Is it so hard to see beyond one's self...

No. But I sure wish the socialist would pull aside the curtain and see what is actually happening!

You call us ordinary folk Selfish and Uncaring etc etc but for some completely unknown reason you seem to think government leaders are completely different from the ordinary person you just call SELFISH.

Perhaps you are correct. Government leaders are different because they have learned how to manipulate and LIE better than most.

H.L. Mencken nailed it when he said "The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it."

That is why most of us want small decentralized government that can be watched carefully by the people.

Here is a neutral subject I am sure we both can agree on FOOD.

Do me a favor and READ these articles. They expose the nasty underbelly of what is actually happening when government gets too big. Heck MOST of the articles are from progressive sites!

www.opednews.com...
SHIELDING THE GIANTS: www.whistleblower.org...


President Bill Clinton's BLOODY HANDS!
www.cbsnews.com...
www.democracynow.org...


More information on the subject of the world food supply:
smirkingchimp.com...
www.smirkingchimp.com...
www.smirkingchimp.com...