Obama: “Israel must be able to defend itself – by itself – against any threat”

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

Israel, Britain and Russia have continued to use the old fashioned method of obtaining intelligence, this is where the USA lacks and this is why they fail intelligence gathering.

I'm sure that the intelligence Israel collects is accurate enough - it's just that the intelligence they share is often flawed and circumspect. Y'see, one point in Israel's favor, politically; they're not playing buddies, they're playing politics. That means they will lie, cheat, swindle, kill, and deceive if it benefits Israel. Mind, this is not an inherently bad thing - one expects any nation to look out for itself first and foremost. But it does mean that the United States should not be under the delusion that Israel is our bestest buddy by any means. Israel is Israel's buddy - and sometimes even that is doubtful.

In regards to Iraq; lets make it clear that WMD include that of nuclear-biological-chemical weapons and Saddam did in fact have the latter two. Why was it covered up? Because it's products were purchased from the USA (via a company owned by the Bush family), France & Germany; so what intel they received was pretty much spot on.

Ah the old conspiracy theorist standby; "We have no evidence supporting my conspiracy theory, which is how you know there's a conspiracy!" No. One, Saddam never had nuclear weapons. Ever. In any degree. Two, he never actually had biological weapons, either; He had some weaponized anthrax, but it was only in "experimental" quantities and was never loaded into weapons. He DID have chemical weapons, and he DID obtain them via the US and Germany (France sold conventional arms) but what he didn't throw at the Iranians in the 80's was incinerated by inspectors in the 90's.

We were given false intel of an imminent threat. This intel was given by a nation that has an axe to grind. On the face of it, it's sort of like if Pakistan were telling us India was being naughty.

Afghanistan, you're on your own there but I do know this much that the US invasion had nothing to do with OBL.

Israel had jack to do with our invasion of Afghanistan. Initially that WAS about OBL - however, it quickly became apparent that since the war wasn't going to be over in a few nights, there had to be some other stuff going on to justify it. Take your pick - minerals in the north, a safe haven for a Caspian pipeline, creating a US beachhead in central asia, all could be equally valid.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by beezzer

 

Just a thought, haven't checked yet but......WWRPD?

(what would ron paul do?)

My thought was, there are many ATS members rather vocal in their support for Ron Paul, and itching for him to be POTUS. Based on my understanding of his over-all stance of "smaller federal government"....wondering if he's express his opinions about International aid programs? Those fans of his, might know best.

Clamoring for less foreign aid expenditures, and such, a sort of return to isolationism....is this the desire of those RP supporters? And, Tea Party too??

Is what Obama doing a bit of pull-back, that would be trumpeted and applauded, if it were Ron Paul doing it??

What would Ron Paul do? That's easy; whatever gets Ron Paul money. Same thing Ron Paul has always done. So the question is, who has more money to fling at Ron Paul? AIPAC, or some scruffy little Palestinian lobby group?

Ron Paul votes with his wallet.

Israel can take care of itself. But if America pulled back on its support of them, Israel would likely up its game on "Palestine". If a country feels threatened one of the first things they do is attempt to put space between them and their perceived aggressors. You want 1967 borders? Good luck with that if they lose America's support.

/TOA

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


You know what.....some of you guys are so good playing the evil Israel card yet look at what your own nation, the USA, did in Iraq and continues to do in Afghanistan!

Israeli intelligence NEVER said Iraq had nuclear WMD.

Saddam did NOT rid his country of all biological and chemical weapons in the 1990s at all.....guess what.....your military sought out and found such weapons:

www.wired.com...

www.all-natural.com...

usiraq.procon.org...

As for "faulty" Israeli intel.....yep......and your "faulty" intel on OBL? Nothing less than pure fakes; what a fiasco thats turning out to be!

If our friendship can benefit the US then we need to do whatever we can to uphold, enforce treaties/pacts. No partnership goes into effect without looking for the benefits that it would provide to the parties involved.

Obama said, "Israel must be able to defend itself – by itself – against any threat." Ignore the message that it sends to Israel. What would other countries see in that message? And by extension, what benefit from other countries could the US garner?

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by mayabong
Tornados are wiping out towns left and right, the economy is in the #ter. People are on foodstamps. I'm supposed to worry about funding and protecting a group of people thousands of miles away cause they want to reclaim land that was supposedly theirs 2000 years ago??? No thanks!

edit on 23-5-2011 by mayabong because: (no reason given)

Thanks for replying. Do you see then, the recent disasters that struck the US as the reason?

No other ulterior motives?

Isn't he just pointing out, that we have enough to worry about?. I do not care if Israel exist or not too.
We the people all over the world are more and more in distress.

It's all words, and words from the Pres and the gubberment are almost always intended to deceive.

Actions speak louder than words. We'll see if he cuts off the $3 billion's worth of weapons which the US DONATES to Israel each year. I

Which makes me wonder, what the h..l do they do with all those weapons? Who are they supplying?

reply to post by beezzer


Not a chance, we bomb them back into the stone age every time the temperature changes.
They hate us as bad or worse than they hate the jews.
Not because of our freedoms but because we kill them as a matter of course with no more regard than that of killing rats.
He is flip flopping, but I'm not sure why.
One thing is for sure though, networthYahoo is not worried about his puppet.

reply to post by KonquestAbySS


LOL F-16's, they have F-15's.
16's are cute but 15's are the benchmark unless something has drastically changed in the past 20 years in between those two.
However I agree, let em do their own work and provide for their own.

Just watched Israel PM speak to congress. Sounds good. Now I still don't like Obama, but if he can broker a peace deal in the middle east, then good on him.

reply to post by beezzer


Obama's destiny is not a peaceful one. Obama will NEVER broker a deal between the Israelis and Palestinians; wishful thinking on the part of the Americans. You all are being taken for a ride. What Obama's speech was all about is simply this......ever heard of lip service? The man speaks with two tongues and is all no action. Obama does exactly what he's told and when he's told to do it. He does'nt work for the American people, he works for the NWO just as Bush did.

I don't like whats going on any more than alot of other people but when this is all over.....it's either going to be a good thing or it's going to be a bad thing......for ALL of us no matter who we are, where we are. Everyone and every nation is going to be affected at some point in time.

Originally posted by beezzer
If our friendship can benefit the US then we need to do whatever we can to uphold, enforce treaties/pacts. No partnership goes into effect without looking for the benefits that it would provide to the parties involved.

Obama said, "Israel must be able to defend itself – by itself – against any threat." Ignore the message that it sends to Israel. What would other countries see in that message? And by extension, what benefit from other countries could the US garner?

It does benefit the U.S strategic position in the middle East...

It does not benefit U.S relations with 20 odd states, this also has an inherent cost.

Other countries would see that U.S might be reexamining its role as global policeman.
Israel is sitting there today, people are eating in the cafes and living life, now... if Israel was being blown to
hell that would be another thing completely.

reply to post by Janky Red


The US Military was never the world's police.....they are there for other purposes and work for the NWO and big corporation. American soldiers no longer fight for their God, nation, family and friends. Those days went out the window along time ago.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Zakka

 

That's what I see. Without US support, Israel is left wide open for any number of hostile enemies. And Israel will not hesitate to use it's nuclear arsenal if threatened.
This is a prelude to nastier things, in my humble opinion.

Contrary to propaganda, Israel does not actually have any "hostile enemies" worth mention. There are some gangs in Gaza - and that's just what they are, gangs - but none of the neighboring nations wants to or can pose a threat to Israel.

Turkey: Despite chilled relations lately, still a "friend" to Israel.
Syria: Busy with internal conflict, has been focusing purely on diplomatic methods against Israel for over a decade now
Lebanon: No offensive capability worth mention; politically unwilling. Has Hezbollah in the south, but even their interest is keeping Israel out of Lebanon
Jordan: No offensive capability, has been in a prosperous peace agreement with Israel since the 90's.
Egypt: Internal issues, has vested interest in keeping Camp David treaty going.
Iraq: You're kidding, right?
Iran: Is manifestly more afraid of Israel than Israel is of it. doesn't really have the offensive capability, and the actual leadership of the country is interested in neutral, if not normalized relations with "the west"
Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, other Gulf States: The Saudi air force has more jets than pilots to fly them. nobody else has anything resembling a real military; US is effectively the gulf region's military power.
Palestinians: Despite gang activity, Palestinian leadership is committed to diplomatic / political methods of gaining redress; has no functional military, much less one capable of taking on Israel.

The myth of "enemies at the gate" is one promulgated by the Zionists who rule Israel, and the reason they do so is plain; they do it to terrify the rest of Israel into keeping the Zionists in power.

To answer your question later in the thread, yes, our close alliance with Israel injures our interests in hte middle east. As you noted, oil is our main interest in the middle east; Israel has none of this stuff. Thus Israel's antagonism of the people who DO have oil, reflected on the US who arms and enables Israel, harms our interests in the region.

Right now Israel's biggest worry is going to be the rise of a peaceable, Western-friendly democracy somewhere in the region; the US will drop Israel like a bad habit (which it is) in that case. Welcome to realpolitik.

They don't have enemies? According to Isreal, expanding their borders from where it was in 1967 is paramount to their security. Doesn't sound like a country without enemies to me.

You talk like Iran has no capabilities to attack Isreal, fact is they do and are building more everyday. Iran also has help in Russia and China. If i were Isreal, losing the US as a protector is a huge deal and a big problem for their national security.

Isreal going nuclear to protect itself makes it no better then Iran or any other country who would threaten nuclear war if attacked. If they go down they will take everyone with them? Wow, for a people that are supposed to be protected by God and are God's true people, they sure act like everyone else.
They aren't better then anyone, they are just as much a problem as any other country that is threatened. Trust me they are threatened, why else would they make a speach to congress and make waves in the media about what the USA believes should happen with their borders? Their scared, their protector is finally doing the right thing, if only to protect themselves as well as their allies.

If you see the actions what you said makes no sense. You are just writing your own story about how this all is.

reply to post by EspyderMan


Think about what you just said.......do you really really think Iran and Russia are true allies? Whats the bet those two nations go head to head sometime down the track!

As for China.....pay close attention, very close attention......they are going to get squeezed and are heading for the biggest downfall in modern history. Russia is going to become a very very wealthy nation indeed.

i would argue that what your hearing from Obama is just hot air. There is no real intention of reigning in Israels agressive stance towards it neighbors. In the US and the UK THE most powerful lobby group is the Israeli lobby. Far more powerful than any middle eastern lobby group (if there are any). So despite Obamas tougher stance, it is just words, a smoke screen. This is just my opinion

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by mayabong
Tornados are wiping out towns left and right, the economy is in the #ter. People are on foodstamps. I'm supposed to worry about funding and protecting a group of people thousands of miles away cause they want to reclaim land that was supposedly theirs 2000 years ago??? No thanks!

edit on 23-5-2011 by mayabong because: (no reason given)

Thanks for replying. Do you see then, the recent disasters that struck the US as the reason?

No other ulterior motives?

Could the disasters be God's attempt to warn us that standing in opposition to Israel is not a wise move? The Bible does say that God will punish such nations. We will abandon Israel though. That is the only way that the war prophesied in Ezekiel 38(the Gog-Magog war) can occur. No nation will openly attack Israel until we do abandon them.

reply to post by sonofliberty1776


Good point you bring up and i have often wondered why worry about the outcome.
If the bible is not a lie, we will get the righteous outcome and all will be at peace with god.
However if the bible does lie, we will certainly know it, as if a god could not back up his word, is he/she really a God?
Very interesting thought.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

To answer your question later in the thread, yes, our close alliance with Israel injures our interests in hte middle east. As you noted, oil is our main interest in the middle east; Israel has none of this stuff. Thus Israel's antagonism of the people who DO have oil, reflected on the US who arms and enables Israel, harms our interests in the region.

Not quite true. Israel has significant quantities of oil and natural gas. They are not yet developed, but soon they will be major exporters.

Israel The Saudi Arabia of Shale Oil

Israel Giddy Over Natural Gas Find