Obama: “Israel must be able to defend itself – by itself – against any threat”

reply to post by 3warped3


In all honesty....we know how Barak bin Obozo is all talk and no action !

Thanks for all the replies.
Personally, I think this leads us closer to a great war in the middle east.
Granted, we have issues at "home" that need to be taken care of, an economy in ruins (et al) but there has to be other ways we can come up with cash, rather than let Israel be cut loose and surrounded by hostile neighbors. This Arab Spring I keep hearing about, the protests, the uprisings, tensions with Pakistan/China. . .

Shouldn't this be a time where we assure allies and not lose friends?

reply to post by bluemirage5


Kudos to you for understanding what the heck was going on!!

reply to post by beezzer


What has Israel done to ever benefit America. If anything our friendship has made the us hated by Muslims. Suddenly their problem is our problem. Im sure you know about the false flags they've launched in the past. I just dont see why people keep saying they are a great friend.

Originally posted by mayabong
reply to post by beezzer

 

What has Israel done to ever benefit America. If anything our friendship has made the us hated by Muslims. Suddenly their problem is our problem. Im sure you know about the false flags they've launched in the past. I just dont see why people keep saying they are a great friend.

I'd see them more as a "strategic" friend. Where we have a foothold in the middle east. Like it or not, we are tethered to the middle east for oil.

Is being an ally of Israel hurting us?
(rhetorical)

reply to post by mayabong


Thats because you're so blinded by mainstream media, you fail to see just what Israel actually does for the USA; their military and intelligence ties are the closest of any other of your allies!

reply to post by bluemirage5


"...just what Israel actually does for the USA". "for" ? maybe "to" would be better if you look at the cases of Israel spying on the US military and military technology. Not to mention the USS Liberty...

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Zakka

 

That's what I see. Without US support, Israel is left wide open for any number of hostile enemies. And Israel will not hesitate to use it's nuclear arsenal if threatened.
This is a prelude to nastier things, in my humble opinion.

Contrary to propaganda, Israel does not actually have any "hostile enemies" worth mention. There are some gangs in Gaza - and that's just what they are, gangs - but none of the neighboring nations wants to or can pose a threat to Israel.

Turkey: Despite chilled relations lately, still a "friend" to Israel.
Syria: Busy with internal conflict, has been focusing purely on diplomatic methods against Israel for over a decade now
Lebanon: No offensive capability worth mention; politically unwilling. Has Hezbollah in the south, but even their interest is keeping Israel out of Lebanon
Jordan: No offensive capability, has been in a prosperous peace agreement with Israel since the 90's.
Egypt: Internal issues, has vested interest in keeping Camp David treaty going.
Iraq: You're kidding, right?
Iran: Is manifestly more afraid of Israel than Israel is of it. doesn't really have the offensive capability, and the actual leadership of the country is interested in neutral, if not normalized relations with "the west"
Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, other Gulf States: The Saudi air force has more jets than pilots to fly them. nobody else has anything resembling a real military; US is effectively the gulf region's military power.
Palestinians: Despite gang activity, Palestinian leadership is committed to diplomatic / political methods of gaining redress; has no functional military, much less one capable of taking on Israel.

The myth of "enemies at the gate" is one promulgated by the Zionists who rule Israel, and the reason they do so is plain; they do it to terrify the rest of Israel into keeping the Zionists in power.

To answer your question later in the thread, yes, our close alliance with Israel injures our interests in hte middle east. As you noted, oil is our main interest in the middle east; Israel has none of this stuff. Thus Israel's antagonism of the people who DO have oil, reflected on the US who arms and enables Israel, harms our interests in the region.

Right now Israel's biggest worry is going to be the rise of a peaceable, Western-friendly democracy somewhere in the region; the US will drop Israel like a bad habit (which it is) in that case. Welcome to realpolitik.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by kyred

 

Obama has been building bridges of "peace" to the muslim community since he took office.

At the expense of Israels' security.

Israel has been treating Palistinins like crap, at the expense of Israels' security

Obama's right, it's about time

Israeli right wingers and American right wingers need to go on vacation while the grownups figure this out

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by mayabong

 

Thats because you're so blinded by mainstream media, you fail to see just what Israel actually does for the USA; their military and intelligence ties are the closest of any other of your allies!

Except the mainstream media is breathlessly pro-Israel. And the intelligence we get from Israel tends to be heavily flawed and often deliberately skewed; We'll listen to the United Kingdom and trust their word, but we double-check the stuff Israel tells us. Especially after they gave us all that crap intel on Iraq - and then tried to give us the same intel, nearly verbatim, regarding Iran; even the Republicans wised up to the fact Israel was trying to use the US military as its own personal hit squad.

reply to post by beezzer



Not to muddy the waters, however I just want throw this into the mix as I think it is necessary
for folks to realize that there is more than meets the eye with all of this "Middle East Revolution"

The 1920 San Remo resolution answered a fundamental issue that still plagues the Israeli-Palestinian peace talks today: whether Israel has a right to the land..




Its key to understanding what is happening now by orchestration...

And how many of these men were bankers?
www11.homepage.villanova.edu...

reply to post by burntheships


Nice info

What do you think is the main goal of this orchestration?

An externality of all of the civil unrest in the region, is the very real possibility that non U.S agents could seize various governments and actively attack Israel, or create a new united front.

Originally posted by beezzer

Is being an ally of Israel hurting us?

This probably depends on the specific detriment or benefit you are trying to measure.

I think being an ally is one thing, being a cohort is another, ultimately there is a cost for everything, even inaction
can have great consiquence.

I don't know why people believe the lie that Israel is scared and defenseless and that without America, Israel is doomed...

Israel can kick everyone's butts in the middle-east... all at once if necessary. This is just fact. And that is CONVENTIONALLY.

If push comes to shove, Israel will NUKE those who attacks it into oblivion.


Israel is not a little defenseless baby, it's a lion with nukes.

reply to post by Janky Red


Its complicated...

I want to formulate an answer, its late now. Let me say this at the moment, after watching the
video its clear that the problems in the Middle East can not be blamed on Israel.

Just who is behind all of this, who stands to benifit the most?

Its looking like some form of a shadow government, not comprised of any one nation alone.

reply to post by beezzer


Just a thought, haven't checked yet but......WWRPD?

(what would ron paul do?)

My thought was, there are many ATS members rather vocal in their support for Ron Paul, and itching for him to be POTUS. Based on my understanding of his over-all stance of "smaller federal government"....wondering if he's express his opinions about International aid programs? Those fans of his, might know best.

Clamoring for less foreign aid expenditures, and such, a sort of return to isolationism....is this the desire of those RP supporters? And, Tea Party too??

Is what Obama doing a bit of pull-back, that would be trumpeted and applauded, if it were Ron Paul doing it??

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Israel, Britain and Russia have continued to use the old fashioned method of obtaining intelligence, this is where the USA lacks and this is why they fail intelligence gathering.

In regards to Iraq; lets make it clear that WMD include that of nuclear-biological-chemical weapons and Saddam did in fact have the latter two. Why was it covered up? Because it's products were purchased from the USA (via a company owned by the Bush family), France & Germany; so what intel they received was pretty much spot on.

Afghanistan, you're on your own there but I do know this much that the US invasion had nothing to do with OBL.

Originally posted by weedwhacker

Clamoring for less foreign aid expenditures, and such, a sort of return to isolationism....is this the desire of those RP supporters? And, Tea Party too??

Is what Obama doing a bit of pull-back, that would be trumpeted and applauded, if it were Ron Paul doing it??

I'm not going to pretend that I'm a SME on foreign policy. As to what RP would do, Tea Party would do, I don't follow the pack blindly.
I would love to see us pull out of the "wars" but at what cost?
Does the benefit of being an active partner with Israel outweigh the costs?

Would isolationism benefit us long term/short term or both?

This is one of the reasons I'm asking more questions on this thread than trying to defend a position.
I just don't know enough yet.

reply to post by burntheships


One thing is for sure...

The consternation perpetuates lots of activity for many different interests. There is a whole lot of money to be made
keeping this issue permanently tenuous, it serves a financial purpose just like the War On Terror. Many people
lose business and power once peace is declaired, unfortunately war and fear are profitable... I think individuals
work very hard to keep this rolling along on all sides, but thats just me.

Love to read your thoughts, if you find the time

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