Reasons for believing in the bible?

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by 547000
One reason to believe would be religious experience.

One person's religious experience is another person's paranormal experience. That's not evidence of anything but the fact that there's stuff that may or may not exist that you can't explain.

But, I'm sure that your experience came with a DVD tutorial that explained exactly what it meant, and there was also a signed statement of authenticity in the package to ensure that you knew the source of the experience.

It's odd that if someone experiences something that makes them think twice about the claims of traditional religious dogma, then it's Satan coming as "the deceiver" to lead them astray, but if some 4 yr old kid, whose dad is a preacher, comes out of a fever and says that he went to Heaven and hung out with Jesus, then it's true and hard evidence that the bible is 100% true. As if the kid wasn't already programmed to see Jesus and Heaven if his little brain started feeling the slippery slope greasing up on him.

Maybe it's the other way around. Have you ever even considered that maybe the real deception is the bible? I mean, the book contradicts itself over and over again, and then Jesus says right there in its own pages that "By their fruit you shall know them." Any book that has such sketchy fruit shouldn't be trusted as a history book, and a science book, and definitely not treated as holy scripture. Hell, the thing itself instructs you to not believe it, and that's pretty amazing that it (in essence) debunks itself as the word of God with that one statement of its primary character.

edit on 5/21/2011 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)

Maybe I should have said personal religious experience? Someone else can roll their eyes and patronize you, but it's a good enough reason for you to believe.

I was not raised a Christian, always thought it was silly, but after my experience I became one.

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by 547000
One reason to believe would be religious experience.

But why would you believe the entire thing? I can see if it were all the same author - but it isn't.
It is pretty trusting to take the entire Book literally as factual because of an "experience." Not to say it doesn't happen all the time. Faith is trust and little more than that. That is the beauty of faith. No evidence.

If God made you bleed and gave you holes on your palms and gave you the markings of the crown of thorns, then would there be any dispute that you were just making it up or it's mostly subjective? The way I see it, if you ask God, you get what you need to believe. People keep treating religious experiences like they're always open to interpretation but my own experience was quite specific. My experience means nothing to you, so seek your own. But to me it confirmed the truth of the crucifixion and ressurection.It validates the basic truth of the NT and the claims of the OT.

edit on 21-5-2011 by 547000 because: (no reason given)

Like I said "not to say it doesn't happen all the time," but the stigmata can happen to anyone based on belief just like other people can raise blisters on their skin by thinking them there. This may or may not be God. What I am saying is the mind can do a lot on its own.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by 547000
One reason to believe would be religious experience.

But why would you believe the entire thing? I can see if it were all the same author - but it isn't.
It is pretty trusting to take the entire Book literally as factual because of an "experience." Not to say it doesn't happen all the time. Faith is trust and little more than that. That is the beauty of faith. No evidence.

If God made you bleed and gave you holes on your palms and gave you the markings of the crown of thorns, then would there be any dispute that you were just making it up or it's mostly subjective? The way I see it, if you ask God, you get what you need to believe. People keep treating religious experiences like they're always open to interpretation but my own experience was quite specific. My experience means nothing to you, so seek your own. But to me it confirmed the truth of the crucifixion and ressurection.It validates the basic truth of the NT and the claims of the OT.

edit on 21-5-2011 by 547000 because: (no reason given)

Like I said "not to say it doesn't happen all the time," but the stigmata can happen to anyone based on belief just like other people can raise blisters on their skin by thinking them there. This may or may not be God. What I am saying is the mind can do a lot on its own.

So are you arguing for mind over matter? By what mechanism does the brain do that? Most scientists laugh at such propositions, but if it helps them discount the possibility of hell, they would believe such things.

I prayed to God and said if He gave me a concrete experience I would believe and it did happen, so I believe. To me it's fairly good evidence.

reply to post by 547000


Very happy for you. Not even arguing, just throwing facts out there and you can chuck em where ever you need to to prove your point. You are convinced. Others aren't. There is no crime in either condition.

reply to post by 547000

By what mechanism does the brain do that? Most scientists laugh at such propositions, but if it helps them discount the possibility of hell, they would believe such things.

Sympathetic nervous system? It is just a guess. Do they laugh or do they believe? You are not clear here and if they do laugh at such propositions they are not scientists at all. Those "raising blisters" feats of human ability were done at the Mayo Clinic.

I happen to think I take my next breath only because He allows me the pleasure - but I am not so dense as to expect everyone to think like me, in fact I don't see logically how they can.

I read the bible a lot when I was young, but didn't always understand a lot of things.. But a lot of things stayed with me from it...

The most important thing is I always gave God and Christ the benefit of the doubt that they exist and are indeed real.. And because of this step, I have had many life saving experiences as a result of divine intervention and know God loves all. Of course everyone has freewill and you don't have to give anyone the benefit of the doubt about anything.. Stay proud and arrogant and see where that takes you..

These are from the top of my head:

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me"
"He was wounded for our transgressions, and bruised for our iniquities. The chastisement for our peace was upon HIM and by His stripes, we are healed"
"Yet in all these things i am more than a conqueror"
"God shall provide all my need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus"
"Give and it shall be given unto you, good measure, pressed down, shaken together, will men give unto your bossom"
"He who gives to the poor, lends to the Lord"
"God is love"
"For God so loved the world, He GAVE His only begotten Son, that who-so-ever believes in Him would not perish but have everlasting life"
"Without FAITH it is impossible to please HIM"
"Love the Lord God with all your heart, soul and mind, and Love your neighbor like you love yourself"
"Love covers a multitude of sin"
"He who does not forgive his neighbor, God will not forgive"
"Seek first the kingdom of God and HIS righteousness, and all these things will follow you"
"Do not worry about tomorrow"
"Confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart God raised HIM from the dead, and you will be saved."
"All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God"
"For the wages of sin is death (separation from God)"

Get a grip people....it's hardly a book of doom and gloom. But keep believing what THEY tell you...it's making such a difference in our world! The B.I.B.L.E. is an instruction manual, and a book about people who wouldn't be ruled by dictators or PTB.

Also understand, the carnal man (flesh) is enemies with God...and we are 2 beings in 1; Carnal and Spiritual..and they are constantly warring with each other. The carnal man wants worldly things, and the Spiritual man wants Godly things. The B.I.B.L.E. helps with the battles; which are all in your mind.

How many times has your own mind talked you out of something? And, how many times have people laughed at your crazy ideas? Well, the B.I.B.L.E. is there to help you do the impossible....like build an Ark and not a drop of rain is in the sky! Or, be pregnant and not married, KNOWING you could be stoned to death, for such a violation. Or, how about exposing corruption in the church, and going up against TPTB, during those times. Some of you are scared to speak up and tell the truth, now...so i'm SURE you would have been one of the ones screaming...'Crucify HIM'!

It takes courage and action in God's kingdom....and scardy cats aren't invited! It's a 'FAITH' thing! In God's world, it's all about doing the impossible!!! Think about it...we live on a ball of dirt and water, suspended in mid-air; and Y.O.U. were made, in the IMAGE and LIKENESS, of the Creator of this impossible reality!

Go do something spectacular...and stop being so damn religious! It's holding you back, from acheiving the impossible. Don't worry...God's word will get you through the difficult times! That's a GUARANTEE from God Himself! But, you gotta find out where HE said it...then keep speaking it, til you 'GET IT'! "You CAN DO all things....Christ will strengthen you!" It's a promise!

And, just so you know, God is into the "covenant" thing. If you do, He will do!

reply to post by WillNiendick

I also feel that Jesus and the Lord will let any good soul into Heaven.

I'm the last person on this site, to start a fight, with someone who dosn't want to start a fight. I think I said that right.

But anyways, the above line tells me you really don't know squat, about this subject matter like you say you do.
But that's ok because maybe you believe you do. But I get the loudest impression that you don't. You're still good to go tho with curiousity. I'm still going to flag your thread just because you gave a lot of your own text.

Religion is something I will never understand.

I believe in The Heavenly Father, I believe in his son Jesus Christ, I know he is who the Bible says he is.
The Elites game is the one you are falling for. They know damn well the mighty one is out there because they
are at war with him. Sorry you can't see it but I do to the point of rock hard faith. I don't need religion. I do need Christ.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by 547000

 

Very happy for you. Not even arguing, just throwing facts out there and you can chuck em where ever you need to to prove your point. You are convinced. Others aren't. There is no crime in either condition.

How can you call it blind faith if it's tempered by reason, reason of which is a miracle that testifies to its truth. Does the brain also create perfume smell and prevent rotting? Does it keep certain saints bodies from decomposing? Does the brain turn the Eucharist into flesh? Draw Marian apparitions? The ones who have witnessed such happenings have reason apart from just faith from believing, yet skeptics like to be condescending and argue that they've just been brainwashed.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by Schkeptick
When I finally studied the Bible completely on my own, I found that I could not accept the New Testament anymore.

But rather than being pitched into angry atheism, I realized that I did have a strong core belief in God. And that all the little nitpicky problems I'd had with God and religion in general fell away once I ditched the New Testament.

So I believe there is one creator God. That Jesus was a Jew whose life was seriously manipulated after his death for political gain, and has been continuously manipulated for the past 2,000 years.

And that God will judge my life based on my actions. I now study the "OT" in its original form for insight into how I should live and conduct myself, with the understanding that it is a collection of oral history, real history, poetry, metaphor, etc., all mixed together. Where you draw the lines in your own mind really doesn't matter. I refuse to argue about whether a particular verse is actual history or what.

The only thing that really matters is how you live your life and how you treat others.

But that is true of all humans regardless of belief.

And I believe just the opposite. You can trash the OT. I only believe the New Covenant.

But this is certainly true and can be found also in between the pages of that Book
...in fact, as the premier directive.

The only thing that really matters is how you live your life and how you treat others.

Really, then what do you think about this parable that Jesus shared? I'd like you to pay special attention to the last verse if you will, thanks!
Luke 16:19-31 (NLT)
Jesus said, “There was a certain rich man who was splendidly clothed in purple and fine linen and who lived each day in luxury. At his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus who was covered with sores. As Lazarus lay there longing for scraps from the rich man’s table, the dogs would come and lick his open sores.
“Finally, the poor man died and was carried by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, and his soul went to the place of the dead. There, in torment, he saw Abraham in the far distance with Lazarus at his side.

“The rich man shouted, ‘Father Abraham, have some pity! Send Lazarus over here to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. I am in anguish in these flames.’

“But Abraham said to him, ‘Son, remember that during your lifetime you had everything you wanted, and Lazarus had nothing. So now he is here being comforted, and you are in anguish. And besides, there is a great chasm separating us. No one can cross over to you from here, and no one can cross over to us from there.’

“Then the rich man said, ‘Please, Father Abraham, at least send him to my father’s home. For I have five brothers, and I want him to warn them so they don’t end up in this place of torment.’

“But Abraham said, ‘Moses and the prophets have warned them. Your brothers can read what they wrote.’

“The rich man replied, ‘No, Father Abraham! But if someone is sent to them from the dead, then they will repent of their sins and turn to God.’

“But Abraham said, ‘If they won’t listen to Moses and the prophets, they won’t listen even if someone rises from the dead.’”

www.biblegateway.com...:19-31&version=NLT

You and I both agree that Jesus rose from the dead. According to what Jesus said here is that we have been warned, it is our choice as to whether we will take heed of what Moses and the prophets have written, and that if someone rises from the dead, people will still choose not to listen to Moses and the prophets, nor will they repent of their sins and turn to God. I'd like to know what you think it means to repent, since many "Christians" of your caliber support the claim that Christians are sinners. How can it be that "it's impossible" to stop sinning when Jesus clearly says: John 8:34-35 (NLT)

Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave of sin. A slave is not a permanent member of the family, but a son is part of the family forever."
www.biblegateway.com...:34-35&version=NLT

2 Peter 2:19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity--for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.

I think that you and I both know that to sin is to err, the act of not obeying God's commands rules and regulations, he is, after all, the king of kings.
I say that both the OT and the NT are worth reading.

Jesus replied, "Your mistake is that you don't know the Scriptures, and you don't know the power of God." -Matthew 22:29

Why believe in the Bible...?

From a purely historical context, the Bible is accurate...at least as far back as alternative historical records go. If you compare to the accepted historians of Greece, rome...ie Pliny, Josephus, even the archeological digs...and the records of the ancient civilizations...the bible is accurate.

Just a few examples...

In the digs of ancient Assyrria/ Babylon...thousands of clay receipts in sanskrit have been found...recording transaction between the Assyrrians/ babylonians and an exiled group of people...the Issakkesenne...the House of Issac...the Israelites..capyured and exiled circa 780bc and 500bc. Straight out of Ezekiel, Daniel of OT.

Up until the late 1800s, Nineveh was thought to be a mythical city, mentioned only in oral tradition and the Bible...it's ruins were found just as the Bible spoke of them...way back in Jonah of the OT.

One more, in WWI..a British Infantry captain and his unit were pinned down by Turkish machine guns in Palestine. Being a former chaplain prior to military service, he recalled the same location in Saul, and the story of how David led his men up a hidden goat trail to come in behind the Canaanites that had his troops pinned down by archery fire. he looked for the two twin rock outcroppongs and ...found them. Led a small band of men upto and behind the Turks and knocked out the MGs.

OK...but to use one poster's analogy of Forrest Gump...even Forrest gump was fictional, but the historical context was accurate. Why else should we believe the Bible?

Specific prophecies coming to pass....

Daniel prophesied about 4 empires to follow the babylonians...even prophesied the decline of babylon which caused great strife in the court. The rise of the Medes-Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, and the re-unified Roman Empire...ie EU of today.

Too generalized, in speaking of Greece...Daniel predicted it would be split 4 ways bringing the collapse... about 400 years later, Alexander the Great died and 4 factions split the empire into civil war. Rome? The vision Daniel saw was of a large metallic statue with different metals for each empire...Rome was represented by the legs...2 legs...east-west...Rome and Constantinople...and then the feet of iron and miry clay....Rome reUnited...ten toes..ten countries...ten stars...iron and miry clay...unified but not...strong but weak...we have only to read the news to see the validity of this.

Or perchance the revival of Israel. This is what Ezekiel spoke of with the reference of "dried bones" reviving and coming back to life...or the "olive branch" blooming or giving forth fruit again spoke of by Jesus....a few other references to the same also.

Maybe alliances prophesied and here to for unseen and unthinkable? Perhaps the alliance founded between the Russians, Iranians, Lybians, Ethiopians, Syrians, soon to be Turkey...this is the allaince of Ezekiel 38-39.

Or Jerusalem being trod down by the Gentiles or the rebuilding of the Soloman's Temple... would Netanyahu trade/ allow a Palestinian State on the West Bank in exchange for securing jerusalem as Israel's capitol and rebuilding of the Temple?

Lastly, how about good ol' basic ethics and morals?

Despite the distortions and corruptions of Jesus's teachings...it all comes down to Matthew 5--6-7...the Sermon on the Mount.
-Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
-Love and forgive your enemies. Even the heathen love family and friends, it takes faith and spiritual growth to love an enemy.
-If someone is hungry...feed them, if they hurt...heal them, if they thirst...give them drink, if they carry a burden... offer to carry it for them, if they ask for your coat...give them your tunic also.
-Be loving, generous, giving and forgiving, patient, humble, merciful...

Yeah, those are some pretty crazy ideas.... but what a world it would be if we did live like that.

The problems I see in most people's interpretation of Christianity is not in the teachings of Christ, but in MAN'S DISTORTION of the teachings of Christ. really, paying money so you can get on a prayer list is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Even Jesus says in Chapter 7 of Matthew..Sermon on the Mount..."there will be many that call my name and not make it into heaven. They will ask...We prayed Lord in your name. We went to church in your name. We did good deeds in your name. Why have you forasken me?" Jesus says..." I never knew you." In effect, they never really knew Jesus. They never really put His teachings into practice....

Oh, one more reason to believe in the Bible...if it was all propaganda...why have your heroes, the superstars ...why are they so frail and full of human imperfection... Peter denied Christ 3 times in public....Thomas actually doubts who Jesus really is... Moses did not want to be a leader...Jonah the prophet actually ran from god...job questioned God and was full of self pity and pain...Adam and Eve...pretty striaght forward there... Hosea married a harlot and lamented the relationship...David commited murder and adultery

Some would say" What a bunch of losers and hypocrites." But God loves us and forgives us anyway.

I worship THOR, Thunder God, Son of Odin.

I am his one disciple. Wavy golden locks, red cape, hammer (that is pretty much the most powerful weapon in existance) and the ability to control and manipulate Lightning and Thunder! w00t!

I have a poster on my wall of him. When I come home each day, I just give him the finger gun with a click of the tongue and its all good.

THOR

reply to post by ATC_GOD


i dont do religion but if i did thor would be on my list of possibles

reply to post by AlreadyGone


I'm curious if you give the same validation to greek mythology since there is archeological evidence of ancient Olympia and the mountain which the gods resided. Or do historical facts only apply when talking about the bible.

As far as the ethics you mentioned, I don't find that earth shattering. They are exactly what you stated, a basic code of ethics. This is not some divine revelation by jesus to be nice to people and not be a jerk. A little common sense tells you that.

Prophesy in the bible is a bit odd. In my opinion if a person would just speak plainly so there is no other way to understand what is being said there couldn't be an argument about it. Sadly this doesn't seem to be the case. Take the vision of Daniel. Why some dream of a metal statue being split? Why not just show him greece and him say "dude, greece is screwed guys and it will go down like this......"

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by 547000

 

Very happy for you. Not even arguing, just throwing facts out there and you can chuck em where ever you need to to prove your point. You are convinced. Others aren't. There is no crime in either condition.

How can you call it blind faith if it's tempered by reason, reason of which is a miracle that testifies to its truth. Does the brain also create perfume smell and prevent rotting? Does it keep certain saints bodies from decomposing? Does the brain turn the Eucharist into flesh? Draw Marian apparitions? The ones who have witnessed such happenings have reason apart from just faith from believing, yet skeptics like to be condescending and argue that they've just been brainwashed.

There are many mysteries and some things only answered by a creator. This does not mean this is scientifically accurate. Christians make the mistake of trying to prove their religion when they should show it. Like in creative writing they say show do not say. Nobody likes to be preached to and no one wnats to be told I am right and you are wrong nor do they want to be told yours is a somehow unique and one on one association with allegedly the Creator of us all.

I say allegedly because face facts.
We (you and I - believers)...have none.


You are trying to say you do.

reply to post by Wonders


Your post has a lot of quotations which I wont read since you cannot preach to me. This is a jumble of meaningless things this way and don't you know the Bible is a LIVING BOOK.
This means that it literally comes alive in the hands of the reader and is deliberately intentionally open to interpretation.

If you would please...Give me the verse or verses you would like me to consider and I will tell you what it or they mean to me.

I know Jesus* said there are only 2 real commandments and knowledge of the Bible is not one of them.

* If He has any credibility. I believe Him.
Had he not come along someone would have had to
to stem the wanton debauchery, greed and corruption that was oppressing certain economic groups, genders, classes and races of peoples and THAT person would have been the local folk hero.
I happen to think He was the real deal and so I believe everything written in red.

I also understand others who do not share my belief.

Why should they?

I believe in the bible and I try to place myself in the shoes of the ancients.

Come on now, their world was just the middle east. They thought the earth was flat or dome like...

Originally posted by ATC_GOD
I worship THOR, Thunder God, Son of Odin.

I am his one disciple. Wavy golden locks, red cape, hammer (that is pretty much the most powerful weapon in existance) and the ability to control and manipulate Lightning and Thunder! w00t!

I have a poster on my wall of him. When I come home each day, I just give him the finger gun with a click of the tongue and its all good.

THOR

You are not alone. Many of us enjoy the lesser Gods.

Some say we are them.

freewill makes us lesser gods. I guess if you want to call it that. Although, i dislike the term god, it mean we are sappose to know more. Perhaps it is just our ego

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by 547000

 

Very happy for you. Not even arguing, just throwing facts out there and you can chuck em where ever you need to to prove your point. You are convinced. Others aren't. There is no crime in either condition.

How can you call it blind faith if it's tempered by reason, reason of which is a miracle that testifies to its truth. Does the brain also create perfume smell and prevent rotting? Does it keep certain saints bodies from decomposing? Does the brain turn the Eucharist into flesh? Draw Marian apparitions? The ones who have witnessed such happenings have reason apart from just faith from believing, yet skeptics like to be condescending and argue that they've just been brainwashed.

There are many mysteries and some things only answered by a creator. This does not mean this is scientifically accurate. Christians make the mistake of trying to prove their religion when they should show it. Like in creative writing they say show do not say. Nobody likes to be preached to and no one wnats to be told I am right and you are wrong nor do they want to be told yours is a somehow unique and one on one association with allegedly the Creator of us all.

I say allegedly because face facts.
We (you and I - believers)...have none.


You are trying to say you do.

I'm not arguing scientifically, I am arguing evidently. People say I have no reason to believe as I do, but I do have a reason. I am not claiming it is empirical evidence, but that my faith is not blind but based on reason of bearing witness to miracle.