London School Economic academic's claim 'black women less attractive' triggers race row

Originally posted by Bixxi3

Originally posted by Q2IN2Y
For what reason do you need to conduct a study about the attractiveness of another race?

How would this study help us progress as a human race?

How would this study contribute to any form of psychology?

How old are the people conducting this study?

Who gave this study the green light to be published?

Just a few questions.

I came back to this thread because i had these same thoughts. What they hell were they thinking?
And also everyone finds different features attractive.this study just seems so asinine.
The people who decided to do this study are actually probably racist. not the guy reporting on it for "shock" value to pull in more readers?

edit on 21-5-2011 by Bixxi3 because: (no reason given)

The study is legit...it will first off suggest any inequality that may be presented in the psychology of media
Also it is good for advertising and marketing (you want to use the most universally accepted models of attraction to sell your crap)
And it can allow for wonderful threads like this to pop up on ATS

reply to post by SaturnFX


I noticed that you had not commented on either of my posts so I will reply to yours.

When you use sample data to draw a conclusion about a population, then data is not just data.

The first thing a true statistician will tell you is any sample or study can be designed to provide a predetermined result based on the methods used. However, such a sample or study would not be deemed scientific because the methods were not scientific and any conclusion based on the study would also be considered scientifically unacceptable. This is what this professor is being accused of doing.

You can't just make a broad statement like that and say science proves it without providing full disclosure on how the study or research was conducted. Where did this data come from and how did he draw his conclusion based on the data?

If his research data came from a nazi site, then it would perfectly fine to say that data shows that nazis find black women the least attractive of all other races. His statement was way to broad and had no context.

After this investigation, the data or lack there of will probably prove that his motivation for making such a claim was racist.

While most people on ATS don't understand racism and never will, I don't think think this is racist. This is just a survey with a non representative sample of the world. There are some white males who seek only black females and vice versa. Don't even see why this made it to the media or ATS.Oh, this thread shows exactly why. Skeptic Overlord is on to something...

Originally posted by MIDNIGHTSUN

Originally posted by alfa1
Just to add some more data to the discussion, I found the results of message sending on the site okcupid.
It rates how often a person replies to a message, as opposed to how often they should reply by the 'normal' rate.

OKC

Related to this thread of today, this bit stands out...

Men don’t write black women back.
Or rather, they write them back far less often than they should.
Black women reply the most, yet get by far the fewest replies.
Essentially every race—including other blacks—singles them
out for the cold shoulder.

So maybe the author of the article in Psychology Today was telling the (unwanted) truth.

No, I reject it as the unwanted truth. It's what people have socially condition to see beauty is delusional.

Wow, have you ever been to a shrink before? You might fit a personality similar to Charles Manson, because your reply is the definition of psychotic ignorance. When it comes to human attractiveness it has to do with pattern recognition + symmetry. The more symmetrical ones bone structure is the greater the chance that others will find that person "attractive".

www.jyi.org...

I can't help it Sub-Saharan African women tend to have asymmetrical bone structure on average. It is what it is. Only untruthful statements degrade other human beings. To suppresses a truthful statement you are actually the one who is being a bigot. Because you view them as being too inferior to handle the truth of the situation and are actively preventing them from learning to adapt to it(if you can't win in the looks department you can always win in the personality department + moderate exercise is be at top physical condition).

It doesn't justify mass sterilization in the name of vanity, nor does it dehumanize them. Instead it gives them vital knowledge to compete in a complex world. It is comparable to a study that show's women don't really want nice guy's(I think most studies point to a kind of bastardized combo between a jerk and a nice guy). Sure it might hurt nice guy's feelings but it would help them adapt and move on.

Originally posted by Chai_An

Originally posted by Q:1984A:1776
reply to post by MIDNIGHTSUN

 

I just asked a buddy of mine (he's black) if he thought that white women were more attractive than black women. He said, "bro, do you ever see me with black b!+(hes?" He's got a point, most of the good looking black guys that I know, have white girlfriends... Does that make them racist?

No, sadly that makes him self hating, what he had to say really didn't prove a thing.

Hardly, you don't know Byron, he's anything but self-hating. In fact, I think he's pretty bloody racist himself, thinking that black people are superior... I just don't think he finds black women attractive.

I disagree that its is food or something that makes black women have stronger body odor than Whites....I sat next to lots of blacks in school and they all stank,whereas the White girls have a nice odor....the poster that says the blacks made comments about White women missed the point...they say that because THEY know they stink and make fun of Whites...they do that all the time....I find body odor offensive and would rather not have sex with a woman that smells...like blacks do

Originally posted by phatpackage


Body odor come down to a few things not race.

Ignorance must really be bliss. Race DOES have a bearing on body odor.

The various ethnicities have various amounts on average of Apocrine sweat glands and Eccrine sweat glands. And yes, as the lore would suggest, blacks and whites have the most and largest of these glands, and Asians and Native Americans have fewer and smaller of them. Koreans, of all people on Earth, have almost none.

reply to post by Homedawg



Whites tend to smell "stank" to Asians, so whats your point?

Originally posted by Q2IN2Y
For what reason do you need to conduct a study about the attractiveness of another race?

Understanding what beauty is has implications far beyond the superficial, "I like x" and helps us understand WHY we like x. Advertisers already know what we find attractive, and they throw those images at us. Science just wants to know WHY we find those images attractive.

Originally posted by Q2IN2Y
How would this study help us progress as a human race?

Some of the studies on beauty actually show that our beauty preferences are hard wired into us. And the are NOT the result of a dominant race imposing their standards on the rest of the world. The standard of beauty is very similar around the world. Tribes of people with little contact with western civilization will pick out as beautiful the same faces people in the west pick out as beautiful, and infants will stare longer at beautiful faces than they will at ugly ones.

It turns out that our idea of beauty in males and females has a lot to so with symmetry, which indicates good health, good genes, and a steady nutrition throughout life, and it also has a lot to do with hormone markers. "Beautiful" female faces are faces that display good estrogen levels, and "Handsome" male faces tend to be those that display appropriate testosterone levels. The same goes for body. (Hip to waist ratios female, and waist to shoulder ratios male)

We are looking for the best genes.

Originally posted by Q2IN2Y
How would this study contribute to any form of psychology?

You might think it aberrant for someone to only like young women, for instance, if the man himself was middle aged and paunchy, unless you realized that it really is wired into us to seek to mate with people whose faces and bodies are signaling, "Im fertile." Understanding WHY people do what they do is of enormous benefit to psychology. It help drag it up out of the speculative muck it has lingered in for decades into the realm of actual science.

Originally posted by Q2IN2Y
How old are the people conducting this study?

Irrelevant.

Originally posted by Q2IN2Y
Who gave this study the green light to be published?

Also irrelevant. Of more relevance is "who decided to sensationalize the results with emotionally charged words like "ugly" and to over simplify the results in such a way that morons could take it all out of context.

Originally posted by Q:1984A:1776

Originally posted by Chai_An

Originally posted by Q:1984A:1776
reply to post by MIDNIGHTSUN

 

I just asked a buddy of mine (he's black) if he thought that white women were more attractive than black women. He said, "bro, do you ever see me with black b!+(hes?" He's got a point, most of the good looking black guys that I know, have white girlfriends... Does that make them racist?

No, sadly that makes him self hating, what he had to say really didn't prove a thing.

Hardly, you don't know Byron, he's anything but self-hating. In fact, I think he's pretty bloody racist himself, thinking that black people are superior... I just don't think he finds black women attractive.

A man who don't find his own people attractive is a man with issues about himself. When he looks at a black woman and he's turned off because she's black this is a man projecting how he feels about himself onto her. She's his' mirror. He can't be thinking black people are superior if he refers to his female counterparts as "black b!+(hes?".

Originally posted by Chai_An

A man who don't find his own people attractive is a man with issues about himself. When he looks at a black woman and he's turned off because she's black this is a man projecting how he feels about himself onto her. She's his' mirror. He can't be thinking black people are superior if he refers to his female counterparts as "black b!+(hes?".

Studies like this say NOTHING about individual beauty, or individual preferences. They cant.

I wont use many of the examples used of "beautiful black women," (Halle Berry, etc) because many of them are mixed race, but if you put a genuinely objectively beautiful black female next to a homely white woman men of all ethnicities would overwhelmingly prefer the beautiful black woman to the ugly white woman. Just like if you put an 80 year old white woman next to a relatively unattractive 18 year old black woman, men would likely choose an unattractive younger woman over the 80 year old.

These studies say things about tastes on average. About looks on average. And getting all upset about an average is ridiculous. Much of the problem is that people dont really understand how studies are made and conducted, and they dont understand statistics. They also only see studies like this one that make the news for the wrong reasons, and so they often dont have any idea what is really going on in the study. If you actually read up on and study the science behind sexual selection, its really cool stuff. Not racist at all.

Originally posted by Chai_An

Originally posted by Q:1984A:1776

Originally posted by Chai_An

Originally posted by Q:1984A:1776
reply to post by MIDNIGHTSUN

 

I just asked a buddy of mine (he's black) if he thought that white women were more attractive than black women. He said, "bro, do you ever see me with black b!+(hes?" He's got a point, most of the good looking black guys that I know, have white girlfriends... Does that make them racist?

No, sadly that makes him self hating, what he had to say really didn't prove a thing.

Hardly, you don't know Byron, he's anything but self-hating. In fact, I think he's pretty bloody racist himself, thinking that black people are superior... I just don't think he finds black women attractive.

A man who don't find his own people attractive is a man with issues about himself. When he looks at a black woman and he's turned off because she's black this is a man projecting how he feels about himself onto her. She's his' mirror. He can't be thinking black people are superior if he refers to his female counterparts as "black b!+(hes?".

edit on 22-5-2011 by Chai_An because: (no reason given)

I don't find my 'own people" all that attractive either. Really now, you're going to psychoanalyze some guy you never even met over the internet? I think this is pop-psychological BS. I myself find East Asians gorgeous.

Originally posted by Chai_An

Originally posted by Q:1984A:1776
reply to post by MIDNIGHTSUN

 

I just asked a buddy of mine (he's black) if he thought that white women were more attractive than black women. He said, "bro, do you ever see me with black b!+(hes?" He's got a point, most of the good looking black guys that I know, have white girlfriends... Does that make them racist?

No, sadly that makes him self hating, what he had to say really didn't prove a thing.

exactly my thought too

to be fair many english wowen are stunning, it has to be said

reply to post by donotinducevomiting


I have a Polish girlfriend and damn, are they hot

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

The standard of beauty is very similar around the world. Tribes of people with little contact with western civilization will pick out as beautiful the same faces people in the west pick out as beautiful, and infants will stare longer at beautiful faces than they will at ugly ones.

I would disagree with that statement. I watched a show on discovery the other day about the tribe in Ethiopia that promotes their women to wear lip plates. The son of one the most wealthiest men in the village would not marry a woman without a lip plate because he didn't find women without them attractive.

Also a friend of mine went to China and when asked which celebrity he thought was attractive by his drinking buddies he named Lucy Liu. All of the native Chinese men revolted at this comment because they think she looks ugly and retarded because her eyes slant too much upwards instead of only to the side.

I would have to say that ideals on beauty are nurtured in humans rather than determined by nature.

Originally posted by MaryStillToe

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

The standard of beauty is very similar around the world. Tribes of people with little contact with western civilization will pick out as beautiful the same faces people in the west pick out as beautiful, and infants will stare longer at beautiful faces than they will at ugly ones.

I would disagree with that statement. I watched a show on discovery the other day about the tribe in Ethiopia that promotes their women to wear lip plates. The son of one the most wealthiest men in the village would not marry a woman without a lip plate because he didn't find women without them attractive.

Also a friend of mine went to China and when asked which celebrity he thought was attractive by his drinking buddies he named Lucy Liu. All of the native Chinese men revolted at this comment because they think she looks ugly and retarded because her eyes slant too much upwards instead of only to the side.

I would have to say that ideals on beauty are nurtured in humans rather than determined by nature.

All the men, you do a good job of generalizing.

I think an interesting variation would be to take all of the faces you wanted participants to vote on and make them the same skin color, or maybe batches, all white, then all black, then all asian-toned, etc. I think having the opportunity to judge the facial characteristics without an immediate association of race would help clear up whether respondents were being race-preferential or just sincerely preferred other faces to those of black women. I think the picture Artanis posted with the facial averages goes a long way to legitimize the idea that there are characteristics common to some ethnicities but not to others that many or most people find more attractive or less attractive as a whole. Bear in mind that physical anthropologists can very often correctly identify the ethnic origin of a skull based on factors like the height and width of the cheekbones, jaw width, forehead height, etc. - and if that's not racist, I certainly still don't see how preferring one broad-group suite of features to another is racist.

Originally posted by MIDNIGHTSUN

Originally posted by MaryStillToe

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

The standard of beauty is very similar around the world. Tribes of people with little contact with western civilization will pick out as beautiful the same faces people in the west pick out as beautiful, and infants will stare longer at beautiful faces than they will at ugly ones.

I would disagree with that statement. I watched a show on discovery the other day about the tribe in Ethiopia that promotes their women to wear lip plates. The son of one the most wealthiest men in the village would not marry a woman without a lip plate because he didn't find women without them attractive.

Also a friend of mine went to China and when asked which celebrity he thought was attractive by his drinking buddies he named Lucy Liu. All of the native Chinese men revolted at this comment because they think she looks ugly and retarded because her eyes slant too much upwards instead of only to the side.

I would have to say that ideals on beauty are nurtured in humans rather than determined by nature.

All the men, you do a good job of generalizing.

All of the men... as in all of the men who were drinking with him.. learn how to read and connect sentences.

Notice how it said all the native Chinese men revolted at this comment. Well how would ALL CHINESE MEN be able to acknowledge his comment? Clearly it meant the men who asked the question and then heard his comment.

Is something wrong with your brain or is english not your first language?

Originally posted by MaryStillToe

Originally posted by MIDNIGHTSUN

Originally posted by MaryStillToe

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

The standard of beauty is very similar around the world. Tribes of people with little contact with western civilization will pick out as beautiful the same faces people in the west pick out as beautiful, and infants will stare longer at beautiful faces than they will at ugly ones.

I would disagree with that statement. I watched a show on discovery the other day about the tribe in Ethiopia that promotes their women to wear lip plates. The son of one the most wealthiest men in the village would not marry a woman without a lip plate because he didn't find women without them attractive.

Also a friend of mine went to China and when asked which celebrity he thought was attractive by his drinking buddies he named Lucy Liu. All of the native Chinese men revolted at this comment because they think she looks ugly and retarded because her eyes slant too much upwards instead of only to the side.

I would have to say that ideals on beauty are nurtured in humans rather than determined by nature.

All the men, you do a good job of generalizing.

All of the men... as in all of the men who were drinking with him.. learn how to read and connect sentences.

Great story, I still don't believe it though

reply to post by cointelprofessor

I think having the opportunity to judge the facial characteristics without an immediate association of race would help clear up whether respondents were being race-preferential or just sincerely preferred other faces to those of black women.

Here is such opportunity - a gallery of albino black people:

www.ebaumsworld.com...