Reopening the case file: NASA UFOs

reply to post by JimOberg

Can you apply that same logic to other kinds of reports?

There are innumerable reports of human levitation.

Is it possible they ALL are mistakes, hoaxes, and confabulations? Must at least SOME of them reflect a genuine levitation event?

There are millions of reports of personal communications from supernatural beings, gods, demons, djinn...

Is it possible they ALL are mistakes, hoaxes, and confabulations? Must at least SOME of them reflect a genuine divine event?

Through history there have been a million reports of mermaids.

Is it possible they ALL are mistakes, hoaxes, and confabulations? Must at least SOME of them reflect a genuine fish-human hybrid event?

Throughout history there have been innumerable reports of human immortals, who cannot die.

Is it possible they ALL are mistakes, hoaxes, and confabulations? Must at least SOME of them reflect a genuine counter-death being?

I suggest that once a cultural phenomenon becomes established it will naturally repeat itself indefinitely, without any need for extraordinary stimuli.

The proof of the stimulus is not in the number of the claims, but in the quality of a few of the claims.

The astronaut UFO stories are directly relevant to this issue. The stories are widely regarded as among the strongest category of UFO evidence. I am suggesting that this is not proven, and that all of the stories can have prosaic causes -- some perhaps not discoverable by amateur investigators.

There is no logical necessity to believe that SOME stories are legit BECAUSE so many other stories are bogus.

Thats not a very good way to look at it, considering there is overwhelming evidence that some ufo's are complete unknowns and defy explanation. There is no evidence of mermaids or that levitation is real, but when it comes to ufo's thats a different story.

I think the problem we have is this. Its easy to say "oh, they thought they saw a disc shapped object" or "humans make bad judgements when it comes to ufo's" But to me, this is just a cop out. Humans are not as stupid as some people think, even though certain people will have us believe that we are as blind as bats and never see what we think we see.

No one can deny the evidence that some ufo's defy explanation and are complete unknowns unless they are truely ignorant. I just wish people took this subject seriously and not turn it into a believer vs skeptics bitch fight, where ufo's, and the evidence is lost.

No one can say that some of these ufo's are ET, as there is no evidence for that. But we have to study the subject from the begining and not leap straight away to the ET explanations or the rather stupid de-bunker explanations in ufo cases.

Once the ‘noise’ of misidentifications and misrepresentations is dispelled, the really interesting reports can get the attention they deserve.

I wrote about an astounding visual experience of astronaut Andy Thomas here:

www.seedmagazine.com...

He was off-duty, in between shifts, when suddenly he saw a shimmering ring of fire lying flat on the surface of the earth. Instead of its coming closer, which is what Thomas expected, the ring pulled farther ahead; from his perspective, as a result of foreshortening, it eventually flattened out. Thomas could clearly discern features of the Earth’s surface sliding beneath the burning, crimson rim. It was like nothing he had ever seen. It was like nothing he had ever heard of any other astronaut having seen, either. He was absolutely baffled.

Another case of high quality and interest is from cosmonaut Kovalyonok [May 5th, 1981]

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The description is similar to reports made from aircraft and from the ground while observing launches from Plesetsk and Baykonur. While this similarity is suggestive, any prosaic explanation requires access to launch records that seem to remain deeply classified in several countries.

Originally posted by JimOberg
Once the ‘noise’ of misidentifications and misrepresentations is dispelled, the really interesting reports can get the attention they deserve.

In that case I can strongly recommend you this interview, and listen for instance to what Michio Kaku says about such reports and what according to him those UFOs could be.
I heard Leslie even mention your name in it, so I really hope you enjoy it.

Michio Kaku interviews Leslie Kean

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Speaking of experimental man made crafts, some of those pictures look like the Aurora. In my opinion, if those things aren't space junk, its most likely the Aurora. Well, that is if the Aurora even exists

Originally posted by spacevisitor

Originally posted by JimOberg
Once the ‘noise’ of misidentifications and misrepresentations is dispelled, the really interesting reports can get the attention they deserve.

In that case I can strongly recommend you this interview, and listen for instance to what Michio Kaku says about such reports and what according to him those UFOs could be.
I heard Leslie even mention your name in it, so I really hope you enjoy it.

Michio Kaku interviews Leslie Kean

I'm talking about space sightings, not run-of-the-mill ground/air sightings. The 'noise' in those cases seems hopeless to me.

The tapes that Martyn Stubbs recorded are 100% proof that we are being visited.
This is the best evidence there is, this has everything the skeptics ask for, and yet they still deny it!

I really cannot understand how the skeptics can watch this footage and not be amazed, yes there are lot's of footage that just show "space junk", but the balls of light that are pulsating and can only be seen with infrared are the real deal!

The real delusional ones are the skeptics.

Originally posted by ReconX
The tapes that Martyn Stubbs recorded are 100% proof that we are being visited.
This is the best evidence there is, this has everything the skeptics ask for, and yet they still deny it!

I really cannot understand how the skeptics can watch this footage and not be amazed, yes there are lot's of footage that just show "space junk", but the balls of light that are pulsating and can only be seen with infrared are the real deal!

The real delusional ones are the skeptics.

And you tell the views are infra-red because, uh, how? The reddish tinge to the stars?

The 'IR camera' story is one of the great delusional myths of the 'astronaut UFO video' mythos. All the evidence offered in support of that claim turns out to be bogus when checked.

reply to post by JimOberg



"Reddish tinge to the stars"???

So you're saying NASA don't film clips with infrared cameras?

Ok, in the tether clip Claude Nicollier, took video footage using a hand-held black & white video camera designed to see into the "Near Ultraviolet" which while not exactly IR, is in the same electromagnetic spectrum.

Like I said the skeptics are the real delusional ones, because at the end of the day you skeptics can stamp your feet as much as you want, and blabber on about how the objects in the STS-75 footage going behind the tether is just an illusion because the tether is brighter than the objects, but the fact is that some of the objects are brighter than the tether, meaning no illusion, and they go BEHIND the tether!
FACT!

Analysis of objects going behind the tether, and proof that what your seeing is not an illusion.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Like you (OP) I love a good mystery and none are better than NASA anomalies that cannot be explained prosaicly. There are a lot of NASA anomalies that just don't cut it as far as ice particles, debris, etc. They defy common sense and logic. There's a cadre of individuals who are not as trained as the word "cadre" means, both "civilians" and members of ATS and NASA employees that think that all of us are so dumb that we have to accept their senseless explanations for what we UFO enthusiasts think are real space UFOs and NASA videos and photos provide the best evidence for their reality.

That said, whew!, last year Jim Oberg started a thread that included a video shot from the STS-131 mission:
STS-131 ascent 'UFOs', page 1
www.abovetopsecret.com... and the video is:
www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org...

I list below the comments I contributed and I include 2 vidcaps that I took from the video, one a full frame at 4:16 and the other a closeup of the full frame. Read my comments about this the "Lopez Anomaly" to which Jim never responded.

First the photos, then my 2010 comments as found on the thread.

NOTE: After I posted this reply I saw that on the full frame the right edge has been cut off probably because the image which was cropped from 6MP to 800 pixels is still too large. But, fortunately, the closeup is what's missing. I cannot make the image any sharper but you can see that whatever that thing is it's NOT below the clouds on the surface of the Earth. However, if anyone can figure out where the shuttle was perhaps they can scour the globe on Google Earth and find it. IF it's on the surface!

The STS-131 "Lopez Anomaly", full frame:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1651107a07ed.jpg[/atsimg]

The STS-131 "Lopez Anomaly", closeup:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e79344ca1993.jpg[/atsimg]

Anyways, as I watched the video I made notes of what what I saw at what time shown on the clock on the bottom left of the screen. I hope you comment on my notes. BTW, it doesn't help the UFO buffs that at the beginning of the video the voiceover says: "(garbled)We're seeing good ET video."(!)

at 00:01:25 you can see a white object appear and fly over the "nose end" of the tank.

at 00:01:11 you can see a white dot about to go over the tank's bottom white band (second band from the nose end).

at 00:01:49 you see a venting spray (liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen) and a white dot comes into view from the bottom of the screen and can be seen passing over the end of the tank.

at 00:01:58 2 white objects appear from the bottom of the screen and as they pass the tank the camera performs a modified zoom in.

at 00:02:11 a white object appears way below the tank moving towards 1pm.

at 00:02:23 more venting spray is seen which is longer lasting than the one at :49. No debris is seen as the result of these venting sprays, just vapor.

at 00:03:26 a white large object is seen going over the nose. Obviously some kind of large debris, tumbling and possibly hitting the nose.

at 00:03:48 big chunk of something flies over the end of the tank.

at 00:04:16 What is THAT long, "insect-like" thing on the right? It's above the clouds! And those "portuberances" at the tip closest to the bottom of the screen! And the cloud "face" on the right side of it!

at 00:05:53 a bunch of white dots on the right side of the screen seen clearly against the blue of the ocean. They have to be cloud wisps 'cause there's too many of them also in other parts of the video.

at 00:07:28 another definite white dot appears to the right of 6 o'clock on the bottom of the screen and this is NOT a cloud wisp.

We're talking some bizarre objects that cannot be classified as debris from the shuttle (at least not the one from which the video is being shot from) because the objects/debris is seen above and below the external tank which has to be at a good distance from the shuttle. Yet, some of the things seen behave like debris and could be dangerous to missions!

Some of the objects have the classic "white orb" generally thought of as UFOs. And that weird-looking HUGE object with "portuberances" is something that needs explaining 'cause it was static.

What is your opinion on what is reported above? And did you see any of them yourself?

Originally posted by Yrsal
It's always good for us newcomers to see things from a while ago reposted. There's alot of old threads to search through! Thankyou Slayer.

I find it hard to rationalize some of the photos as debris as they seem to have lights or thrusters, wouldnt they be disabled if they've been jettisoned? I also wonder if there's a list somewhere of what proportion of the known space debris is large enough to be some of these items. Saying there is thousands and thousands of debris really doesn't mean much if most of it is few centimeters.

Additionally, and no one mentions this, if the photos show real, human-made debris you just know that whatever craft lost such big pieces would be in more trouble than any of the shuttles involved in death-resulting accidents. And can anyone from NASA recognize any of the objects as being part of anything we've sent up? I don't think so. Whatever those and other objects are, we are in deep trouble.

I showed them to my wife and she just about freaked out and asked me not to show her any more. She was really scared.

Originally posted by nightmare_david

Originally posted by JimOberg
I agree we always need to keep our eyes peeled for stuff outside the windows.

Even in a no-UFO universe it could be critical for mission safety.

however, your comment

The general consensus is that the images in question were simply space junk. End of story.

reflects a common misconception fostered by ambiguous journalistic use of the sexy term 'space junk'.

I've never seen any imagery from any humanned space flight that looked likely to be this kind of 'space junk' -- debris from OTHER satellites. Such objects are too far away, too small, too fast [if close], and generally non-detectable by a crew.

The prosaic explanation most commonly offered - -and documented -- involves stuff, often short-lived stuff like ice, off of the particlar spacecraft from which the observation is being made. On occasion it involves material associated with co-orbiting spacecraft with which rendezvous maneuvers are being conducted.

This introduces fundamental differences with trying to explain blips as 'space junk' from other vehicles. If you don't realize this, any investigative efforts are likely to be doomed to frustration.

You posted that 12 minutes after the thread was created. I have to question whether you actually fully read everything and watched each video before you replied?

Oberg has an program that alerts him whenever the word NASA is posted on certain sites. Damn, I just alerted him again.

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur

Over the years, many of the tiles have been replaced by a material known as Flexible Reusable Surface Insulation, or FRSI, and Advanced Flexible Reusable Surface Insulation, or AFRSI. FRSI and AFRSI are lighter and less expensive than the conventional tiles and using them has enabled the Shuttle to lift heavier payloads to orbit. FRSI and AFRSI cover areas of the Shuttle Orbiter that do not exceed 700 degrees Fahrenheit (370 degrees Celsius) during entry or 750 degrees Fahrenheit (400 degrees Celsius) during ascent. This includes the fuselage sides and top, the payload bay doors, the tops of the wings, and the Orbiter Maneuvering System (OMS) pods near the tail. The FRSI/AFRSI is soft and is sometimes referred to as a “thermal blanket.”

From this essay.

Okay... this "thermal blanket" sure seems important, and I highly doubt it had just fallen off a billion dollar piece of equipment.

Not only what you say but just how big is this "thermal blanket" and why if it's a "small" object does it look so damn big?

Nice presentation , OP .
I like the use of Mozarts Requiem , one of my fave pieces of music.


S+F

Originally posted by tpg65
Nice presentation , OP .

Making any progress?

You can't be seriously excited about a crew comment of "ET images", can you?

reply to post by JimOberg



I can't wait for the day when the truth comes out, because one day it will, not matter what you debunkers try the truth will out, you are fighting a losing battle.
When that day comes, and it will, you better find a mighty big rock to crawl on under. The citizens of the World are going to come looking for the people responsible for the cover up, of our right to the truth, and the oppression of the human races development!

Evolution cannot be stopped!

Originally posted by ReconX
reply to post by JimOberg

 

I can't wait for the day when the truth comes out, because one day it will, not matter what you debunkers try the truth will out, you are fighting a losing battle.
When that day comes, and it will, you better find a mighty big rock to crawl on under. The citizens of the World are going to come looking for the people responsible for the cover up, of our right to the truth, and the oppression of the human races development!

Practice waiting.




Anything's possible and new discoveries can be expected. What I have been pointing out is that the arguments most vociferously promoted for the 'space UFO videos' depend heavily on both accidental and deliberate ignorance of the new realities of the new arena of human activity, outer space.

That's the most pathetic angle to the sincerity of folks with your opinion. While calling for revealations of 'secrets', they are actually practicing deliberate coverups of relevant contextual information and background on these kinds of videos.

This isn't amusing and is potentially harmful. First, it discredits the entire genre of strange stuff that astronauts can (and do) see, and secondly, it overwhelms any processing algorithm with so much noise that valuable reports can get overlooked when they might have been most time critical -- such as any reports of the broken segment of Columbias's left wing that broke loose and drifted away, very probably in front of the windows and cameras, soon after reaching orbit. Unnoticed, that potentially life-saving clue wasn't recognized until radar scans were analyzed after the crew were all dead.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by ReconX
reply to post by JimOberg

 

I can't wait for the day when the truth comes out, because one day it will, not matter what you debunkers try the truth will out, you are fighting a losing battle.
When that day comes, and it will, you better find a mighty big rock to crawl on under. The citizens of the World are going to come looking for the people responsible for the cover up, of our right to the truth, and the oppression of the human races development!

Practice waiting.




Anything's possible and new discoveries can be expected. What I have been pointing out is that the arguments most vociferously promoted for the 'space UFO videos' depend heavily on both accidental and deliberate ignorance of the new realities of the new arena of human activity, outer space.

That's the most pathetic angle to the sincerity of folks with your opinion. While calling for revealations of 'secrets', they are actually practicing deliberate coverups of relevant contextual information and background on these kinds of videos.

This isn't amusing and is potentially harmful. First, it discredits the entire genre of strange stuff that astronauts can (and do) see, and secondly, it overwhelms any processing algorithm with so much noise that valuable reports can get overlooked when they might have been most time critical -- such as any reports of the broken segment of Columbias's left wing that broke loose and drifted away, very probably in front of the windows and cameras, soon after reaching orbit. Unnoticed, that potentially life-saving clue wasn't recognized until radar scans were analyzed after the crew were all dead.

What a load of rubbish!


"Accidental and deliberate ignorance of the new realities of the new arena of human activity, outer space".

It's you who is ignorant of the fact some of those objects go behind the tether!
You can argue as much as you like that it's just an illusion, but it's not and you know it!


"They are actually practicing deliberate coverups of relevant contextual information and background on these kinds of videos".

You described yourself pretty well there!

Originally posted by JimOberg
This isn't amusing and is potentially harmful. First, it discredits the entire genre of strange stuff that astronauts can (and do) see, and secondly, it overwhelms any processing algorithm with so much noise that valuable reports can get overlooked when they might have been most time critical -- such as any reports of the broken segment of Columbias's left wing that broke loose and drifted away, very probably in front of the windows and cameras, soon after reaching orbit. Unnoticed, that potentially life-saving clue wasn't recognized until radar scans were analyzed after the crew were all dead.

Making fun of Jim aside, this is true. The levels of "noise", as well as putting lives at risk, also give a massive headache to any researcher genuinely looking for anomalies. We must be missing so much valuable data. Another down side is it makes all look like cranks.

I still think having a look at these well known images won't do you/us any harm. Look into what Jim has claimed about the objects. Does it ring true? If it does fair enough. If you think one of the images looks like a test plane, great. Now can you find more anomalous images to back up the idea? Do I make sense or am I a crank after all?

reply to post by ReconX

What a load of rubbish!


"Accidental and deliberate ignorance of the new realities of the new arena of human activity, outer space".

It's you who is ignorant of the fact some of those objects go behind the tether!
You can argue as much as you like that it's just an illusion, but it's not and you know it!


"They are actually practicing deliberate coverups of relevant contextual information and background on these kinds of videos".

You described yourself pretty well there!

If these objects around the tether are in fact disc shapped objects, please tell me why we see them at the same angle. Is it just a strange coincidence that these objects were flying all at the same angle?

This alone tells me me they are not disc shapped objects, but small objects close to the camera.

When you look at a plane in the sky, the planes shape will differ depending on the angle you are viewing the plane. Same should be the case for the tether ufo's.