5-21-2011 Rapture... Get the facts strait...

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by predator0187
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

 

But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 2:192

If they give in we will accept them.

And see - you did it again!

Did you just like that, FORGET the verse 190? You know, the one that says fight those WHO FIGHT YOU?
You know, as in, they ATTACK US so we must DEFEND ourself?
Ringing any bell?

What are we to do if they attack us? Just sit and wait to be slaughtered?`Of course we must fight them! and THEN comes the verse above - if they STOP ATTACKING US, then God will forgive them.

edit on 21/5/2011 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)

An attack is not believing in the same god? Pushing their beliefs on you? Another opinion?

Pot calling the kettle black...

Pred...

Originally posted by predator0187

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by predator0187
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

 

But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 2:192

If they give in we will accept them.

And see - you did it again!

Did you just like that, FORGET the verse 190? You know, the one that says fight those WHO FIGHT YOU?
You know, as in, they ATTACK US so we must DEFEND ourself?
Ringing any bell?

What are we to do if they attack us? Just sit and wait to be slaughtered?`Of course we must fight them! and THEN comes the verse above - if they STOP ATTACKING US, then God will forgive them.

edit on 21/5/2011 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)

An attack is not believing in the same god? Pushing their beliefs on you? Another opinion?

Pot calling the kettle black...

Pred...

Dude, God tells US to FIGHT BACK. I can't believe you are reading the verses and still don't understand them?!
I mean, the verses clearly say that if the disbelievers attack US, then we have the right to DEFEND ourself.

It doesn't tell us to attack them!

Attacking someone first is completely forbidden in Islam!

It talks about WAR - not attacking with "words" or "not believing".

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


Relax buddy. Your attacking me.

Take a couple deep breaths...

Attacking is not believing in the same god, according to Islam, that's a crappy rule to follow. you can call it whatever you want, doesnt make it an actual "attack".

Stop "attacking" me.

Pred...

Originally posted by predator0187
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

 

Relax buddy. Your attacking me.

Take a couple deep breaths...

Attacking is not believing in the same god, according to Islam, that's a crappy rule to follow. you can call it whatever you want, doesnt make it an actual "attack".

Stop "attacking" me.

Pred...

Lol, I am not attacking you. But yet another claim of yours (how do you come up with these?) that an "attack" is according to islam merely "not believing in the same God" - is based on what exactly? Where in the whole Qur'an does it say that "not believing in God" is an "attack"?

You can't just throw out claims like that, because you "think" it is so.

But anyway ...

Back to topic-

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

The Torah is the first 5 books of the Bible. Chapter 24 of Deuteronomy is the last Chapter in that book. The Torah stopped when he died. And it is still written word for word, dit for dit, dot for dot, in Ancient Hebrew.
And I am a Female or does my Avatar look like a guy?

I really hate to see everyone argue over this. God in the Christian religion, is the same God as in the Muslium religion. And God's name in Ancient times was YHWY. Jesus's name was Yeshua. The letter J was never used in language until a German started it in the earily 1500's.

There are extremist in all religions. God is Love, and we should love not hate.

Originally posted by predator0187
I have read most of the holy books including the plagiarized buy-bull,

Pred...

Buy-bull is a buzz-word from American Atheists and the Dawkins cult. That's where you get your information from not any study of theology!
Gave yourself away, Sir Troll..
Vicky

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


If your a muslim then great.... kille veryone you think is a threat to your pitifull delusions.... it makes sense with yoru religious doctrine.

Christians have somone else their suposed to be listening to.... and he NEVER ONCE proclaimed that you are to slaughter those with ill will against you.

Those words being of a savage or an idiot depends on which religion you belong to.

Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by predator0187
I have read most of the holy books including the plagiarized buy-bull,

Pred...

Buy-bull is a buzz-word from American Atheists and the Dawkins cult. That's where you get your information from not any study of theology!
Gave yourself away, Sir Troll..
Vicky

Why is someone that disagrees with your religion a troll? Dawkins is a brilliant man, as he just studies evolution, and has done so with bishops before. Why is this man that writes books any different that your men who write books? Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.

Information should be taken in and dissected, period, regardless of what it is, that is how we learn. Christians fight evolution when we have so much evidence in favor of, yet we have no evidence of god, and they still believe on blind faith. Why some things but not others? Because one promises life everlasting and the other promises nothing.

You know what I believe? Nothing. I have no idea what happens when we die, nor do you, the pope, Peter, Paul or the minister down the road, I just choose not to follow something invented by another man in a time that has no relevance to now. Why is that bad? Why does that make me a troll?

You know what I have noticed about all the religious people in this thread, there is no patience and understanding, something that your god teaches. Everyone just fights. Where is the "love everyone" attitude?

I had a discussion once with an old man I met at a job site. Most intelligent and loving guy I ever met. He started asking me about Jesus and when I told him I was an atheist he did not judge, as you all have, he embraced it, he talked to me about his religion and when I told him I respectfully disagree, he respectfully accepted. He told me his religion had many downfalls and said he quit giving money to the church when the molestation accusations came forth. A respectful decision, IMO.

We continued to converse for a descent amount of time, and by the end he agreed that he does not follow the religion he spoke of. He had made his own religion and had his own way to speak with "god". I explained that if all religious people were like that the world would change instantly, rather than listening to others opinions, find your own god.

While still an atheist, his religion was one that I could agree with. One that preaches love, understanding and acceptance, something that all "religious" people in here have a hard time understanding...

Pred...

reply to post by predator0187


Sums up my feelings as well, thanks for that post.

For those on here who are followers of one or other particular religion, it's a rather pointless exercise quoting scripture from a document as 'proof' when that document e.g. the bible isn't accepted by non-believers as proof in the first place.

On a personal note there are several reasons why I find difficulty in accepting any religion as anything more than ancient man's attempt to describe and understand the world around him through fables and legends.

An important aspect of Christianity is that God is omniscient. Omniscience is the capacity to know everything infinitely including thoughts, feelings, life and the universe, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong but God in the Bible is often referred to as "The Great I Am", in the Qur'an, God is called "Al-'aleem"?

A cornerstone of Christian belief is that God is all-knowing and all-powerful and yet at the same time Christians refer to 'free will' in that our existance is an opportunity to accept or reject the word of God through Jesus.

The main issue I and many other non-believers have towards free-will is the fact that God knows the future, and what is already known cannot be considered part of free-will. Predestination and free-will are incoherent, free-will is defined as the power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances. God apparently knows everything about the future including every thought, action or feeling I will ever have.

From the moment of our inception God already knows whether we will accept or reject him, if I knew every decision you would ever make in your life then you would have no freedom of choice. So what is the point of existence? Is God playing out some macarbre joke on all of us? In fact why go to the lengths of creating Jesus and sending him to save mankind when he already knew from the first moment that Jesus walked the earth whether he would be successful or not and indeed whether subsequently every human being would accept Jesus.

Alternately, are we suggesting that God doesn't in fact know the future, which would explain perfectly the reason for our time on earth and the opportunity to accept or reject Jesus? The problem is then that God isn't all-knowing and all-powerful given that he doesn't know the future. Is he actually a God at all?

Religion is largely a question of faith it seems to me and if I was lucky enough to have been blessed with faith I certainly wouldn't be concerned about a lunatic fringe claiming that the rapture was going to happen on a certain date. I'd suggest that Camping and his followers are simply trying to sell a corrupt form of insurance to believers. If Christianity turns out to be correct I'm sure God will be taking a rather dim view of his behaviour!

reply to post by soaringhawk


Works both ways, friend. God's name is above ALL names, and His name is Jehovah. Period. End of responses.

Originally posted by predator0187
Why is someone that disagrees with your religion a troll?

You are a troll because you're a troll, not because you don't believe in my 'religion'. Your attack on Islam which takes the form of refusing to pay attention when you're pwned is an indication... as is the use of the buzz-word 'buy-bull'. You internet atheists are not original thinkers!

Originally posted by predator0187Information should be taken in and dissected, period, regardless of what it is, that is how we learn. Christians fight evolution

Mega fail. Some (very few) Christians fight evolution, mostly rural Americans. Most do not! As you would know if you got your information from someone other than Harris-Hitchens-Dawkins etc.
You are a troll because you are a troll. Your little story about the old guy you worked with, doesn't prove anything other than that some guy on a building site was a nominal Christian who nevertheless chose to swallow the paedophile priest story whole, and "cease giving money" - without asking himself whether it's really true that all priests are paedophiles?
It's also irrelevant.
Are you going to stop watching Monday night football or baseball? No? But sports coaches have a much higher incidence of kiddy-fiddling!
V.

reply to post by coolottie


I took a look at the link you referred me to and you copied word for word what someone said.
Unless you're that person. In any case, neither they or you gave any proof for what is claimed. If you and I only want the truth then you must accept that if someone is making a claim, they need to show proof for the claim made. Since the beginning people have not believed the word of God. When Satan tempted Eve saying you will not die if you eat the fruit from the tree that God forbid them to eat.

reply to post by coolottie


Jesus is the Greek translation. When Jesus walked the earth the O.T had already been translated into Greek. It was originally written in Hebrew & some parts in Aramaic.
Just because everyone claims to serve the same God, it does not make it true. Most Muslim's don't know because they're raised up in it but they are in fact following an anti-Christ, anti-God religion. Islam was spread by the sword. They had invaded Jerusalem and built that blasphemous gold mosque.
Those that did not accept were forced to pay a tax. The early Christian places of worship were turned into mosque's. Indonesia, home to the largest Muslim population in the world is a place where Christian's face persecution all the time. Non-Muslim's are forbidden to enter Mecca.
It is a crime to insult any of the prophet's and is punishable by death. The same punishment for leaving Islam.

So no, their God is the counterfeit god. Just like everyone else they are on the broad path unless the Holy Spirit opens their eyes. We are all the same. None are better than another. The real enemy is the father of lies.

reply to post by aero56


That's not Biblically accurate.

reply to post by Vicky32


wow..you're some kind of wound up

All because he dared say that love is the key to God?

So you make fun of him watching football?

and insinuate he is a pervert?

grow up

reply to post by Vicky32



Do you realize how many f***** up people are out there because of some really bad priests?

How dare you imply that people just buy the stories they hear.

I KNOW FROM FACT,what has happened in my own family.

You have no idea,how many have never spoken of it publicly ,because of the shame.

WOW...I pray God gives you a slide show in your head of all the abuse done by members of the clergy..priests and nuns both.

Originally posted by soaringhawk
Most Muslim's don't know because they're raised up in it but they are in fact following an anti-Christ, anti-God religion.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Why do you keep writing stuff you have no knowledge of?
We do not follow some "other God" - we follow the God of Abraham, of Moses of Jesus. The ONE God, all prophets believed in.
The Creator of the Universe - all prophets preached about Him and none other, therefore no prophet came to "create" a "new religion" or whatever. Jesus did not come to "create" Christianity. He came to preach to the Jews, to fulfill the Law. Consequently, Muhammed did not come to preach a new religion, but to complete the one belief in God.
The difference is: all Prophets before were sent only for a specific nation, while Muhammed was sent for all the Worlds - since Qur'an is the last revelation.
But, if you keep judging this based on a book which HAS BEEN changed (Bible) and every christian scholar will attest to this - then of course you will see Islam, Muhammed and Qur'an as something contrary to your views.

Originally posted by Vicky32
You are a troll because you're a troll, not because you don't believe in my 'religion'. Your attack on Islam which takes the form of refusing to pay attention when you're pwned is an indication... as is the use of the buzz-word 'buy-bull'. You internet atheists are not original thinkers!

Pwned? And yet you say I use buzz words? How was I pwned? Do you even know what a troll is? I do not resort to ad hominen attacks nor do insult you, I dislike what you believe in, something that has harmed people. I am not an original thinker when you follow something followed by an additional billion people? I'm not sure how old you are but I think we figured out who the troll is.

Mega fail. Some (very few) Christians fight evolution, mostly rural Americans. Most do not! As you would know if you got your information from someone other than Harris-Hitchens-Dawkins etc.
You are a troll because you are a troll. Your little story about the old guy you worked with, doesn't prove anything other than that some guy on a building site was a nominal Christian who nevertheless chose to swallow the paedophile priest story whole, and "cease giving money" - without asking himself whether it's really true that all priests are paedophiles?

Mega fail? Talk about buzz words. Christians have to fight evolution as it disproved their thought that the world is only six thousand years old, and that god made us the way we are. Wow, is this your only defense that I read and listen to Hitchens and Dawkins? 2 very well educated men, when you follow people that claim to be the closest to god yet hide their own corruptions? I will choose the educated men, the ones that are studying to figure out new things rather than insinuate god created everything. Statistics also proves most Christians disbelieve in evolution.

Also, I never said that "all" priests were pedophiles, that would be ignorant. Some are yes, that bad enough, but, the church went out of their way to cover it up, move them to a different place so they could commit atrocities again? That's okay to you? I would be upset if any religion or company did something of the like, but yet you defend it? No wonder the world is the way it is, we have people defending pedophilia....

Are you going to stop watching Monday night football or baseball? No? But sports coaches have a much higher incidence of kiddy-fiddling!
V.

No, I do not watch any sort of sports, other than the occasional UFC. I refuse to support sports as I do not think athletes deserve to get paid that much, but that's besides the point. Why would you consider pedophilia "kiddy-fiddling" is beyond me, but I'm happy you can approach pedophilia with such light heartedness, as most people think it is kind of a serious subject. You must not have kids as if you did, you would understand how serious pedophilia is.

I am not understanding why you cannot have a grown up coversation, yes sport coaches have been pedophiles, as have teachers and a lot of other people, but they are usually tried within full extent of the law. Churches hide the pedophilia and cover it up, the people that claim to be doing good in the world. But yet you defend that action? Unbelievable, with the idea that "other people kiddy-fiddle"? Well other people commit mass genocide, should that be allowed as well...

Craziness...

Pred....

Why do people equate Dawkins and Hitchens to a cult. They inform us of their studies and inform of the true nature of what religion has turned into. They tell us to do research for ourselves and then make an educated decision on what we have learned. Churches do nothing of the sort, they fill your head with pro-god rhetoric, and dislike you questioning it, in fact they have killed plenty of people for doing exactly that.

Stop calling people that disbelieve what you do, cults. It proves what all atheists say about you, and how much hate you pass on.

Pred...

I can see why many find Dawkins and co a little too aggressive with their anti-religious stance, it's a bit ridiculous to suggest they are members of a cult. I don't see them brainwashing, forcing members to give up their possessions, follow rigid dogmatic rules or isolate them from their communities.

Sounds very much like 'burn the heretic', 'tis the devil's work' etc. Bottom line is that I haven't yet read or heard a reasoned dispatch of many points atheists make regarding god and religion.

When I hear a religious person refer to god, I can't help coming to the conclusion I'm seeing an individual with mental health issues holding a conversation with their invisible friend, god.

Originally posted by clangers23
I can see why many find Dawkins and co a little too aggressive with their anti-religious stance, it's a bit ridiculous to suggest they are members of a cult. I don't see them brainwashing, forcing members to give up their possessions, follow rigid dogmatic rules or isolate them from their communities.

Sounds very much like 'burn the heretic', 'tis the devil's work' etc. Bottom line is that I haven't yet read or heard a reasoned dispatch of many points atheists make regarding god and religion.

When I hear a religious person refer to god, I can't help coming to the conclusion I'm seeing an individual with mental health issues holding a conversation with their invisible friend, god.

edit on 22-5-2011 by clangers23 because: (no reason given)

I think aggressiveness is a reasonable approach to this situation, if you have a weak stance you be chewed up and spit out. I think Dawkins aggressiveness is more passion than anything else, at least he isn't doing anything crazy like speaking in tounges.

Anything that opposes the believer is the devils work, it their way to discount without learning about what is being said. Kind of the equivalent of crediting god for creating everything without learning about what he created. Religion spreading ignorance...

As for your last paragraph.... Amen, brother...

Pred...

Originally posted by EvolEric
I've seen too many people on here mock Christians
over this stupid Rapture prophecy BS...

I wanna set some things strait...


Christians are not saying this... extreme fundamentalist lunatic's are...

I'm Christian... my family is Christian... we aren't saying the rapture is coming...

Jesus did not predict Sunday's Rapture...

The Bible is not saying 5-21-2011 is the Rapture


A lunatic by the name of Harold Camping did....


This is what is in the Bible says about the Rapture and the End of Time...

Mark 13:32 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Acts 1:7 He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has put in his own authority.

Mathew 24:36 "But the day and hour no one knows.not even the angels in heaven,but my Father only.

If Harold and his followers actually read the Bible...

They would know they were wrong...

Harold Camping is a false profit...

-End of Line

edit on 5/20/11 by EvolEric because: (no reason given)

The correct spelling is STRAIGHT.