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Birthers: We Were Right. The BC is a FRAUD!!! Obama Lovers: Debunk THIS!
page: 26share:
Can't believe I just wasted a few minutes of my life watching that and a few minutes to reply. This video and supposed evidence is a joke and
completely ridiculous. These birthers are really reaching at anything at this point.
Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by portal2012aliensrave
You can't be a good graphic designer...or maybe you're just not up to date on scanning software and Illustrator.
Illustrator automatically generates layers to make editing easier (or what it perceives to make it easier...two different things, lol). PDFs can have layers too if you save it a certain way.
But who cares about facts, right?
No it does not automatically create layers. In fact you need to either use a drop down menu at the top of the screen, or a specialized panel for layers. This is relevant From Adobe Illustrator CS all the way too CS5. Yes pdfs can have layers too, as you stated.
There is no way Illustrator automatically made the "layers" (which i wish people would stop using that term, they are actually different "groups"). OCR is not the creator of this issue, and i can fully back up the three part explanation of OCR technology that the OP's link states.
Summary and retort
This is my first foyer into Obamas Birth Certificate Conspiracy. I am a graphic designer with experience in print and scanning, albeit not to the same degree claimed in the link provided by the OP. However, enough to make heads or tails of what he is saying. I will provide a quick summary of what is being said and my responses.
Page1:
Talks about credentials of the Author, his websites and premise of the article (Obama’s certificate is a fraud) and explains the differences between a long form and a short form.
Page2:
History of Document Archiving and example of microfilmed long form side by side Obama’s form. Federal law is sited on ways of obtaining this information.
Comment: My initial reaction to this is: the bottom half of Obama’s from does not match the other microfilmed form. Nothing major to point to a fraud yet. If this was a copy made for the president of the united states, I wouldn’t expect them to forget to copy and paste the whole form. Another thing to notice is that both examples are not one piece of paper, but two (top form and bottom signatures). This can be seen from the shading in left side of the top of both birth certificates.
Page3:
Explanation that, with the sighted federal laws, it should have been easy to acquire this information. Also, goes on to explaining how a scanner works and how different color modes of scanning offer different results and the form should be scanned in one of two ways (256 grayscale, or binary black and white). It asserts that Obama’s BC has instances proving it was scanned in two ways (no evidence or examples yet). Also explains file date conventions of a database, but doesn’t lead to a point.
Comment: Sometimes things don’t work out. The president most likely did not handle obtaining his birth certificate personally. So he probably had to sign something to give permission to someone else to look up that information (power of attorney I am assuming). Even if he exaggerated the special permission he needed to get his BC, it’s not a big deal. The assertion that there is evidence to suggest two different scanning modes suggests a composite or forgery, which is interesting, but so far no evidence.
Page4:
Continues to explain how a database works and we start getting into evidence. Curved non curved type is the first. When you scan a document that isn’t flat (like a book still in its binding), the corner of the page that doesn’t sit flat bends. There is an example where the author asserts one font has this bend and another does not.
Comment:
While I don’t live in Washington, I find it hard to believe anyone’s BC is open to the public. The Curved Font is a bad example. The red line under sex is hugging right on the bottom pixals of the word, whislt male is a few pixels short of the LE. Looking at the verticals lines of M in male and comparing that with the P and L in Place (below), we see the same effect going on, there doesn’t appear to be evidence to support this claim.
Page 5:
Another Example of Curved non Curved Text. More explanation that the form was a “cleaned up” version of an existing form and that the form was scanned in binary and grayscale (still no evidence to support this). Also explanation of White Hallows (I am going to continue on next page). White Haloing around many words in Obama’s BC leads to the belief in a composite
Comment:
This is a much better example of curved to non curved but still falls short. As you get closer to the bend in the page the warping effect becomes more prevalent. Looking at the lines in the box as a guide you can see how the bend of the page flows (with the 6e being most affected). Using the word Name, which is closer to the bend in the page as a guide to Kapiolani which is further away from the effect is a bad example. Instead use the existing form lines as a guide. So Kapiolani is compared to the bottom line with very little warp except on the K (look at the vertical on K, it is displaying accurate warp compared to the right side vertical of N). Now look at the line above Name, it is also warping the same correct way. Also the notion that the fake certificate was a cleaned up version is ridiculous, hospitals have tons of these forms. Why do they need to “clean up” an existing one? The White Haloing is a good point. Many words, not just typed in from the form have white haloing around them. That could point to a very sloppy composite. As the article explains the document is printed on green security paper, which means the security paper is not on the original document (the microfilm example of another BC confirms this). Now let’s say we don’t want a printed copy but one where we can put online? Well, we take the same procedure but without the printer, we take the document put it over the security layer (again the top and bottom are not one single paper) and export it out. Now a printer doesn’t print white, but a lazy composite from a microfilm does. Since this is going on the web and not printed, I am assuming that there was some compositing involved to put the green security layer underneath the original document.
Page 6-8:
Here we have the main crux of the argument, the scanned document being in two modes, grayscale and binary. I won’t go through the specifics, its long. Also comparing and contrasting font sizes between box 22 and 20.
Comment:
There is actually more compelling evidence than I have previously gave this article credit, I recommend reading these pages. I believe there isn’t enough info to imply the two scanning modes for the following reasons. First and foremost we know the document isn’t sitting flat whilst scanning. If it’s not flat small creases could produce the different tonal values in the blacks (we only worry about the blacks since it is my belief the security paper is another layer). The problem is when there are different tonal values without the same differences above and or below (indicting a bubble). These should be researched further. Second, anything that is dealing with a stamp (like dates) is bound to have different tonal values, so those are in the clear. Third, when you think of 256 gray scale, you think, “gee that’s a lot of tones, how can certain things be so black and others grayed out”. Well, we are dealing with a black and white document (or as close to a black and white document as we can get) on top of a green security layer (as explained earlier). Meaning the initial tonal values for the document are going to be as close to black and white as possible, then it was rescanned as grayscale with the gray bits most likely as smudges. There are more than just the fill in areas that have gray tonal values (like in fig 10 the words Hospital, Institution, If, hospital) on the corners of the letters. So, with the idea that the document was originally made as black and white and then scanned as gray scale, we see how some discrepancy between letters is possible. Also, with the idea of different tonal values over a green security paper layer we see how some of the blacks are closer to green (as his article explains) as opposed to being black. Comparing font sizes on a document scanned with a known crease in it is ridiculous. We know there is a bend in the form, so it is logical the fonts won’t be the same size.
Pages 8-9
Multiple layers in the initial PDF raise suspicion of tampering. The export reports on why those are there uneducated at best.
Comment:
I agree completely, there are some idiots who claim an OCR program is the cause of extra layers (9 of them at that). They are an idiot, those programs don’t work that way, and OCR programs do not appear to be used on this document at all. What does make sense is that there is a green security layer that is generated by the database, whenever someone wants to export a digital BC. The extra layers are most likely a result of bad coding. I have worked for multiple sign companies and business card companies that had methods of uploading graphics and sizing them to specification, then sending me a layered pdf document ready to print… Oftentimes there would be odd empty layers of changes they could have made or a back and front. Since I do not know the specifications of their database programs, I leave it to speculation, but it seems reasonable that the layers are a result on the method used to composite the document on the green security layer.
Pages 9-18
Conclusions and stories about the long form being a fake and the laws that were broken.
Comments:
While these are very interesting (especially the affidavit from Mr. Tim Adams, nothing on the provided BC suggests fraud. The certificate seems real, in so far as I can tell, with only the white haloing requiring more explanation. Hope that made sense to everyone.
This is my first foyer into Obamas Birth Certificate Conspiracy. I am a graphic designer with experience in print and scanning, albeit not to the same degree claimed in the link provided by the OP. However, enough to make heads or tails of what he is saying. I will provide a quick summary of what is being said and my responses.
Page1:
Talks about credentials of the Author, his websites and premise of the article (Obama’s certificate is a fraud) and explains the differences between a long form and a short form.
Page2:
History of Document Archiving and example of microfilmed long form side by side Obama’s form. Federal law is sited on ways of obtaining this information.
Comment: My initial reaction to this is: the bottom half of Obama’s from does not match the other microfilmed form. Nothing major to point to a fraud yet. If this was a copy made for the president of the united states, I wouldn’t expect them to forget to copy and paste the whole form. Another thing to notice is that both examples are not one piece of paper, but two (top form and bottom signatures). This can be seen from the shading in left side of the top of both birth certificates.
Page3:
Explanation that, with the sighted federal laws, it should have been easy to acquire this information. Also, goes on to explaining how a scanner works and how different color modes of scanning offer different results and the form should be scanned in one of two ways (256 grayscale, or binary black and white). It asserts that Obama’s BC has instances proving it was scanned in two ways (no evidence or examples yet). Also explains file date conventions of a database, but doesn’t lead to a point.
Comment: Sometimes things don’t work out. The president most likely did not handle obtaining his birth certificate personally. So he probably had to sign something to give permission to someone else to look up that information (power of attorney I am assuming). Even if he exaggerated the special permission he needed to get his BC, it’s not a big deal. The assertion that there is evidence to suggest two different scanning modes suggests a composite or forgery, which is interesting, but so far no evidence.
Page4:
Continues to explain how a database works and we start getting into evidence. Curved non curved type is the first. When you scan a document that isn’t flat (like a book still in its binding), the corner of the page that doesn’t sit flat bends. There is an example where the author asserts one font has this bend and another does not.
Comment:
While I don’t live in Washington, I find it hard to believe anyone’s BC is open to the public. The Curved Font is a bad example. The red line under sex is hugging right on the bottom pixals of the word, whislt male is a few pixels short of the LE. Looking at the verticals lines of M in male and comparing that with the P and L in Place (below), we see the same effect going on, there doesn’t appear to be evidence to support this claim.
Page 5:
Another Example of Curved non Curved Text. More explanation that the form was a “cleaned up” version of an existing form and that the form was scanned in binary and grayscale (still no evidence to support this). Also explanation of White Hallows (I am going to continue on next page). White Haloing around many words in Obama’s BC leads to the belief in a composite
Comment:
This is a much better example of curved to non curved but still falls short. As you get closer to the bend in the page the warping effect becomes more prevalent. Looking at the lines in the box as a guide you can see how the bend of the page flows (with the 6e being most affected). Using the word Name, which is closer to the bend in the page as a guide to Kapiolani which is further away from the effect is a bad example. Instead use the existing form lines as a guide. So Kapiolani is compared to the bottom line with very little warp except on the K (look at the vertical on K, it is displaying accurate warp compared to the right side vertical of N). Now look at the line above Name, it is also warping the same correct way. Also the notion that the fake certificate was a cleaned up version is ridiculous, hospitals have tons of these forms. Why do they need to “clean up” an existing one? The White Haloing is a good point. Many words, not just typed in from the form have white haloing around them. That could point to a very sloppy composite. As the article explains the document is printed on green security paper, which means the security paper is not on the original document (the microfilm example of another BC confirms this). Now let’s say we don’t want a printed copy but one where we can put online? Well, we take the same procedure but without the printer, we take the document put it over the security layer (again the top and bottom are not one single paper) and export it out. Now a printer doesn’t print white, but a lazy composite from a microfilm does. Since this is going on the web and not printed, I am assuming that there was some compositing involved to put the green security layer underneath the original document.
Page 6-8:
Here we have the main crux of the argument, the scanned document being in two modes, grayscale and binary. I won’t go through the specifics, its long. Also comparing and contrasting font sizes between box 22 and 20.
Comment:
There is actually more compelling evidence than I have previously gave this article credit, I recommend reading these pages. I believe there isn’t enough info to imply the two scanning modes for the following reasons. First and foremost we know the document isn’t sitting flat whilst scanning. If it’s not flat small creases could produce the different tonal values in the blacks (we only worry about the blacks since it is my belief the security paper is another layer). The problem is when there are different tonal values without the same differences above and or below (indicting a bubble). These should be researched further. Second, anything that is dealing with a stamp (like dates) is bound to have different tonal values, so those are in the clear. Third, when you think of 256 gray scale, you think, “gee that’s a lot of tones, how can certain things be so black and others grayed out”. Well, we are dealing with a black and white document (or as close to a black and white document as we can get) on top of a green security layer (as explained earlier). Meaning the initial tonal values for the document are going to be as close to black and white as possible, then it was rescanned as grayscale with the gray bits most likely as smudges. There are more than just the fill in areas that have gray tonal values (like in fig 10 the words Hospital, Institution, If, hospital) on the corners of the letters. So, with the idea that the document was originally made as black and white and then scanned as gray scale, we see how some discrepancy between letters is possible. Also, with the idea of different tonal values over a green security paper layer we see how some of the blacks are closer to green (as his article explains) as opposed to being black. Comparing font sizes on a document scanned with a known crease in it is ridiculous. We know there is a bend in the form, so it is logical the fonts won’t be the same size.
Pages 8-9
Multiple layers in the initial PDF raise suspicion of tampering. The export reports on why those are there uneducated at best.
Comment:
I agree completely, there are some idiots who claim an OCR program is the cause of extra layers (9 of them at that). They are an idiot, those programs don’t work that way, and OCR programs do not appear to be used on this document at all. What does make sense is that there is a green security layer that is generated by the database, whenever someone wants to export a digital BC. The extra layers are most likely a result of bad coding. I have worked for multiple sign companies and business card companies that had methods of uploading graphics and sizing them to specification, then sending me a layered pdf document ready to print… Oftentimes there would be odd empty layers of changes they could have made or a back and front. Since I do not know the specifications of their database programs, I leave it to speculation, but it seems reasonable that the layers are a result on the method used to composite the document on the green security layer.
Pages 9-18
Conclusions and stories about the long form being a fake and the laws that were broken.
Comments:
While these are very interesting (especially the affidavit from Mr. Tim Adams, nothing on the provided BC suggests fraud. The certificate seems real, in so far as I can tell, with only the white haloing requiring more explanation. Hope that made sense to everyone.
Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
What is really scary here, even more than the potential for fraud, is the fact that if Obama was 100% white, and had a name that didn't sound Muslim, no one would have EVER even asked to see his birth certificate.
Thats a damn lie. If this hypothetical "white Obama" still had the same blatant suspicious background you better believe I would be asking questions.
Is that all you got is a tiresome race card? Get outta here wit dat mess!
-Alien
Originally posted by CaptGizmo
Originally posted by yadboy
Originally posted by CaptGizmo
Set aside the left vs. right, the black vs. white.....are you serious? It is the RIGHT WING NEO_CONS...or the so called Tea Party that have created the whole left vs. right and the black vs. white thing! They are the only ones who refuse to let this BS go once and for all.It wont matter what Obama provides as proof....they won't accept anything as the truth!! Get over it already! The BLOG is based only on one Neo-Cons opinion with no proof what so ever..and yes I looked and read the info. It is all BS and baseless info. For Gods sake this guy references FOX news and the World Nut Daily as links for proof. Really!! The problem is the overwhelming majority in this country don't follow the NEO-Cons assessment of the BS birth certificate. It is very sad to see people hold on to this sad issue that was really started and furthered by FOX news which is an oxymoron in it self.
Wow, I thought my post was pretty even keeled but you found a way to attack. With an attitude like that you could never look at the document and see it for what it is. You have to set aside you're blind hatred for anyone who's opinion differs from yours. Look at the document itself. Don't worry about the "birthers", "neo-cons", Fox News or World "Nut" Daily. Deal with the document, it doesn't hold up to even minor scrutiny.
Let the hate go, it's tearing this world apart.
How in the world did you infer hate from my post! I had nothing hate driven in that post at all. I simply have a different opinion on this and am pointing out to YOU specifically who used the left vs. right and black vs. white reference. You did that not me. Why do you claim I am hating? because I differ in opinion? or is it because I used the acronym BS? just curious.
Gee I don't know. Possibly the all caps "NEO-CONS" and "FOX" and "BLOG". Not to mention the liberal (pun intended) use of exclamation points. Your post didn't re4ally seem to be discussing to issue so much as railing against the right.
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Originally posted by portal2012aliensrave
I am a graphic artist myself with 16 years experience
If that were true, I'd think you'd know that optimizing a file actually does create layers... as has been proven here on ATS. Gosh, I don't think I'm going to believe your claim...
Sigh...Don't you get it BH? Adobe and Hewlitt-Packard are "in" on it too. Isn't that obvious?
Maverick, what I'm about to tell you could end my career (or get me molecularly re-arranged as a tribble), but the truth is Obama is an illegal alien. A reptilian to be exact. I've been watching him for some time now and have noticed that no one ever sees him eat a complete meal. There's your smoking gun right there. As everyone who "knows" - knows, reptilians only eat humans for sustenance (more nutrients - and tastier too )
And you sheeple thought Soylent Green was just a bad movie Did you know that everyone who starred in that cinematic masterpiece of revelation is now DEAD?
There are none so blind as those who will not see, well maybe except for Stevie Wonder, Jose Feliciano, and a few others...
reply to post by aptness
Sigh. What makes any of what is presented to you nonsensical? Do you refuse to read, listen, or think about it? Is the reason because Obama told you it is true?
Sigh. What makes any of what is presented to you nonsensical? Do you refuse to read, listen, or think about it? Is the reason because Obama told you it is true?
it doesn't matter if you care or not, you still used the race card.
and i've pointed out the many suspicous things, I agree there are many including his connecticut SSN.
Why you ask do people care so much about the BC? Because they just put out an obvious FAKE. that's why. if you read my original post you'd see I am saying people should stop arguing with Deniers on the validity of the BC. It is an obvious fake.
They should be concentrating on what is the reason they put out an obvious fake?
is it because they are just being arrogant and by putting out that crap they are showing you they can do anything? at this point i really don't know.
but you should care, because if this guy passes for a pres, will the next be even worse? maybe you'll only care when some stupid law or decision they do affects you personally. than I bet you care a lot. lol
and i've pointed out the many suspicous things, I agree there are many including his connecticut SSN.
Why you ask do people care so much about the BC? Because they just put out an obvious FAKE. that's why. if you read my original post you'd see I am saying people should stop arguing with Deniers on the validity of the BC. It is an obvious fake.
They should be concentrating on what is the reason they put out an obvious fake?
is it because they are just being arrogant and by putting out that crap they are showing you they can do anything? at this point i really don't know.
but you should care, because if this guy passes for a pres, will the next be even worse? maybe you'll only care when some stupid law or decision they do affects you personally. than I bet you care a lot. lol
Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
reply to post by wakeUpOrDie
Oh, you must have mistaken me for someone who gives a damn eh?
I am not an Obama supporter, in fact my posting history will show that I am among his harshest critics, I don't like where we are headed as a nation, the debt, and it seems everything this administration has done was all wrong, almost seems intentionally destructive.... There has been no change, only more of the same corruption that drives the government. That said... On the birth issues, I call it the way I see it, just like everything I have an opinion on.
There would be no public outcry, no demands to see the evidence, etc if he was as I said.
Obama has many issues to attack, more than enough, but people always fall back on this birth issue.
WHY?
Don't answer that, I already have, and already know why.
It is as certain as the fact that he has been a crappy president.
edit on 18-5-2011 by Fractured.Facade because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by aptness
When did McCain produced his birth certificate? And to whom did he show it?
Originally posted by yadboy
Then why did McCain have to produce his.
Thanks.
edit on 18-5-2011 by aptness because: (no reason given)
Hmm, maybe I was talking out of my butt as far as him having to actually produce it, but it was an issue;
McCain's Birth Abroad Stirs Legal Debate
Originally posted by Runaway1977
reply to post by derst1988
112 page thread on exactly that
Best get to cracking!
Which post were you responding to? I have already seen that thread, and I do believe I added my opinion to it.
reply to post by Runaway1977
Yes I did search and read what I had found but sigh...no one has read the interview and responded to the information that is posted in interview but not on ATS. Like the nineth circuit court proceedings...
Yes I did search and read what I had found but sigh...no one has read the interview and responded to the information that is posted in interview but not on ATS. Like the nineth circuit court proceedings...
reply to post by animefunkmaster
Welcome to ATS and join the plethora of graphic artists you'll find here at our site.
It's not the OCR technology that creates layers, it's optimization. This video shows how the anomalies appear in a scanned and converted birth certificate.
Originally posted by animefunkmaster
I am a graphic designer with experience in print and scanning,
Welcome to ATS and join the plethora of graphic artists you'll find here at our site.
It's not the OCR technology that creates layers, it's optimization. This video shows how the anomalies appear in a scanned and converted birth certificate.
edit on 5/18/2011 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Apocalyptic
Can't believe I just wasted a few minutes of my life watching that and a few minutes to reply. This video and supposed evidence is a joke and completely ridiculous. These birthers are really reaching at anything at this point.
ridiculous really? then why ask yourself why did obama used the bin laden we got him trump card?
just to get away from the issue of his BC?
Originally posted by derst1988
Which post were you responding to? I have already seen that thread, and I do believe I added my opinion to it.
this one
Originally posted by derst1988
There is no way Illustrator automatically made the "layers" (which i wish people would stop using that term, they are actually different "groups"). OCR is not the creator of this issue, and i can fully back up the three part explanation of OCR technology that the OP's link states.
Then apparently you skipped a few pages because it was all explained more than once in that thread. So if you have something you can back up or prove, why is it not there already?
Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by TrueAmerican
I don't know about this since most of you are the same people who said Trump was running. Not like you have an inside track on anything. In fact while you all are messing with the decoy's the hunter is covering his tracks.
Trump did behave as if he was planning to run and be Obama's opponent. I think after Obama smashed his face figuratively at that dinner, he backed off. Maybe Trump figured out that some serious people with power are backing BO. I do believe he thought he could make BO play his hand though. Or he is really on the same side as BO. I'm not positive. Trump did have the nerve to speak at Tea Parties though, so maybe he is on the level.
Originally posted by derst1988
Originally posted by Runaway1977
reply to post by derst1988
112 page thread on exactly that
Best get to cracking!
Which post were you responding to? I have already seen that thread, and I do believe I added my opinion to it.
let us not forget there's all kinds of evidence that obama would NEED to forge a bc. regardless of actual doc. haha
Originally posted by relocator
reply to post by Runaway1977
Yes I did search and read what I had found but sigh...no one has read the interview and responded to the information that is posted in interview but not on ATS. Like the nineth circuit court proceedings...
Well that is a lie because I did a search, found a bunch, and even supplied you a link right here in this thread.
reply to post by ufoinquirer
Well put. But it seems like a losing battle. Im tired of fighting and informing.
Well put. But it seems like a losing battle. Im tired of fighting and informing.
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