92 year old peaceful muslim woman remembers

Originally posted by Dnevnoi
reply to post by filosophia

 

Umm Nidal sent her three sons to be Hamas suicide bombers, propaganda or fact? Fact.

She is regarded as a hero in the eyes of the Palestinians and Hamas, propaganda or fact? Fact.

Don't be so quick to dismiss things as propaganda, often they're true.

Such as an Israeli MP claiming the protesters in Syria had government clearance and aid to reach the border.

The thing is, no one in the U.S was talking like this until the first Gulf War. Then 9/11 escalated the rhetoric.

And now we spew such vile hatred about another religion? Now we are told that the texts are full of promoting the idea that it is their destiny to take over the world? So, why were we not told this years ago? We never talked about another religion with such hatred in my lifetime. I honestly cannot remember talking in this manner or using this rhetoric, just over 10 years ago about any religion.

It's not about tolerance, it's about respect. Respecting each others differences and getiing by in harmony. All this just boils down to people claiming the same God they all pray to, is of their chosen religion. Why, because they invented their religions and therefore my God must be the right one.

All I will say, is that if we really come from a God and made in his image, of his genes, then he must be the most blood thirsty, unforgiving God, because the respect isn't there.

Divide and rule has certainly worked its wonders over the last thirty years. There has been relative peace (i.e no world war) since 1945. They have planted the seeds and now the shoots are appearing.

Originally posted by filosophia
Ok, I'm thinking this is just Israeli propaganda and shouldn't be trusted.

-Lady looks far to energized to be 92
-She says:
"My father massacred them, and brought back some stuff" how profound, what stuff exactly? In other words this phrase sounds like a possible mistranslation.
-The website has a lot of fearmongering towards Jews, such as "Are American Jews in danger"
-at the bottom of the website is a sign up for military training.

So with the fear mongering, and the military training, I'd say this is an untrustworthy site.

I love this.

Had this woman spoken of Jews massacring the Arabs you'd be singing the exact opposite tune..

This is stupid. Finding it hard to keep up with the bull# in this forums..


And to the OP:

Arabs massacred Jews in Hebron 90 years ago. So what?

Can we all just move on and get along?

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by Eliad


"those who dont remember the past are condemned to repeat it"....

Maybe you should go through your own Jewish history..

Even with the "enlightenment" did the persecution of the Jewish people end? What makes you think "forgiving and forgetting" will solve the historical phenomenon of Jew hatred?

If you refuse to remember, than you might aswell assimilate completely and drop the whole "Jew" title since it serves nothing good. If you dont appreciate the value in your peoples religion, and their understanding of reality, then seriously there is absolutely no value calling yourself a Jew. It is beyond religion the gentile dislike of Jews. In the past it was religion they disliked about the Jew. Today it is an assortment of accusations; greediness, corruption, conspiracy...frankly it is just an irrationa compulsion..

Look at this thread or at filosophias post. He has a weird compulsion to justify everythng the Arabs do and criticize th zionists. Even in this particular example, there is no 'zionists'. Just Hebron Jews and a ugly old arab woman reminiscing over the Massacre of 67 human beings... Does filosophia respond like a mature, understanding human being and condemn such fanaticism? does he see this as proof of a radical spirit in the Arab world or Palestine? Nopeeeeee.. He represses that thought because it challenges the irrational compulsion to hate zionists... He must justify this feeling so he 'rationalizes' all sorts of things essentially concealing from hmself (since all this occurs unconsciously..im not saying hes aware of irrationality otherwise he wouldnt act this way) his irrational reasoning...

This is normal in general. We all do this with things we have a particular aversion... But tt particular strange with Jws...It appears there exists an irrational element in many peoples unconscious to dislike the Jews...Whethers thats due to conditioning by a higher power or not is irrelevant. History repeats itself constantly with anti-semitism. Get a Clue. You SHOULD NOT forget. Your memory of the past prevents this evil from occurring again.

I have noticed a trend here on these forums. Those with a pro-Zionist agenda use cases such as these (where a limited number of barbarians commited henious acts) to demonize every Muslim and Palestinian. It isn't going to work on me. As an agnostic I have met alot of Muslims, some devote and some moderate- yet not a single one of them maintained the kind of mentality you continuosly claim all Muslims do. The fact is it is a minority that hold extremist views.

Nice work trying to pimp a tragedy to use as a justification to occupy and oppress Palestinians in their own homeland. One day we will look back on this like we did the Nazi propaganda that allowed 6,000,000 innoccent Jews to die. Unfourtunately by then it will be to late and many innoccent Muslims will have perished.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Eliad

 

"those who dont remember the past are condemned to repeat it"....

Maybe you should go through your own Jewish history..

Even with the "enlightenment" did the persecution of the Jewish people end? What makes you think "forgiving and forgetting" will solve the historical phenomenon of Jew hatred?

If you refuse to remember, than you might aswell assimilate completely and drop the whole "Jew" title since it serves nothing good. If you dont appreciate the value in your peoples religion, and their understanding of reality, then seriously there is absolutely no value calling yourself a Jew. It is beyond religion the gentile dislike of Jews. In the past it was religion they disliked about the Jew. Today it is an assortment of accusations; greediness, corruption, conspiracy...frankly it is just an irrationa compulsion..

Look at this thread or at filosophias post. He has a weird compulsion to justify everythng the Arabs do and criticize th zionists. Even in this particular example, there is no 'zionists'. Just Hebron Jews and a ugly old arab woman reminiscing over the Massacre of 67 human beings... Does filosophia respond like a mature, understanding human being and condemn such fanaticism? does he see this as proof of a radical spirit in the Arab world or Palestine? Nopeeeeee.. He represses that thought because it challenges the irrational compulsion to hate zionists... He must justify this feeling so he 'rationalizes' all sorts of things essentially concealing from hmself (since all this occurs unconsciously..im not saying hes aware of irrationality otherwise he wouldnt act this way) his irrational reasoning...

This is normal in general. We all do this with things we have a particular aversion... But tt particular strange with Jws...It appears there exists an irrational element in many peoples unconscious to dislike the Jews...Whethers thats due to conditioning by a higher power or not is irrelevant. History repeats itself constantly with anti-semitism. Get a Clue. You SHOULD NOT forget. Your memory of the past prevents this evil from occurring again.

People in the region need to leave violence in the past, the massacres that have taken place in that land against Jews and Arabs are a terrible tragedy and an affront to humanity but they should be relegated to the pages of history. Eilad is right, dwelling on the past isn't going to make the situation in Israel and Palestine any better.

Originally posted by Eliad

Arabs massacred Jews in Hebron 90 years ago. So what?

With respect,
Eliad.

A distinct group of people gleefully butchering, raping, and burning people
alive only 09 years ago and you say, "so what" and then "with respect."
You have no respect for people.

Originally posted by Violater1

Originally posted by Eliad

Arabs massacred Jews in Hebron 90 years ago. So what?

With respect,
Eliad.

A distinct group of people gleefully butchering, raping, and burning people
alive only 09 years ago and you say, "so what" and then "with respect."
You have no respect for people.

I'd say Eliad is quite respectfull. I have seen him post for a prolonged period on these forums and he is ussually kind and patient. He is also a Israel supporter and even with this he would like to see a just peace. He brings up a great point by saying "so what?" and that is what relavence does this tragedy have with the Israel - Palestine conflict?

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant

Originally posted by Violater1

Originally posted by Eliad

Arabs massacred Jews in Hebron 90 years ago. So what?

With respect,
Eliad.

A distinct group of people gleefully butchering, raping, and burning people
alive only 09 years ago and you say, "so what" and then "with respect."
You have no respect for people.

I'd say Eliad is quite respectfull(sic). I have seen him post for a prolonged period on these forums and he is ussually(sic) kind and patient. He is also a Israel supporter and even with this he would like to see a just peace. He brings up a great point by saying "so what?" and that is what relavence(sic) does this tragedy have with the Israel - Palestine conflict?

Really?
Really!
I shake my head at your callous indifference to the massacre of human life.

reply to post by Violater1


You can shake your head all you want, but it still dosen't answer the fundemental question what relation does a tragic attack by Arabs against Jewish people -that happened in 1929 before Israel was founded as a state- have to do with the current Israel - Palestine conflict. You guys are so quick to link it to what is going on now yet you provide no evidence suggesting the relevance. Not only do you do that but you also use an incident that happened in 1929 to demonize all Palestinians and all Muslims as barbarians. Guess what the Germans killed 6,000,000 Jews in concentration camps and slave labour camps incase you forgot- yet you do no call every German a barabarian or a Nazi. So why should you be excused when using this incident as a justification to lable every Muslim and Palestinian a barbarian?

reply to post by lifeissacred


No. Hes an idealist whos minds in outer space. You too share his idealism of 'evil isnt good', thus remembering evil isnt good. Its a bit of a schizophrenic logic.

Evil isnt good. Youre right. But as long as their exists an enemy of the Jews - Muslims particularly - the Jews must be VIGILANT lest another holocaust, this time in Israel occurs..

Its common sense.

Do you think the Jews of pre WWII Europe who had completely assimilated and forgotten the persection of earlier times did well by forgetting the trends of the past? Do you think it was wise for them to forget that gentiles, whether we like it or not, seem to always turn against the Jew?

This isnt some old, cliche, meaningless statement either. If it bothers you. Tought luck. Face reality. Look at history, learn it and digest it. This is what continues to happen to the Jews and it is happening before our very eyes again today, but the propaganda, conditioning and popular opinions are impairing the G-d given understanding that all human beings are incumbent to exercise.

Eliad especially is going to eat his words, lest he be destroyed with the rest of the backward liberal Arab apologists.... It would almost be a poetic justice for this man who denies the reality of Islam (and its nature) to be run over by it..... Even if he did lose someone he loved to a suicide bombing, or as the Muslms call it a "Shahadah" a marytr - one who offers himself not out of personal hopelessnss, thus it is not qualified as a suicide, but as a sacrifice to Allah - he would still in his mental obstinance ignore the meaning of the attack. It wouldnt change his attitutde towards Islam. In his twisted idealism he will sit self-righteously out of his love and desire to be loved by gentiles, and say that he didnt change his beliefs. He remained firm with the popular leftist, insane gibberish of both sides being at fault.

He ignores his own peoples rich history in Israel and thinks their forced expulsion from the land 2000 years ago is a weak justification for laying claim to it now...while sympathizing with the arabs whose own Quran justifies Israel as the land for the Jews......even despite the massive evidence for illegal immigration...... its insane..

You my friend are testimony to the evil of having a state runned media. Only IsraelNationalNews or Arutzsheva gives a damn about Jews and Israel. The rest of them are literally out to destroy you.

Want an interesting book to read Eliad? Read Israel Eldads "the first tithe". Maybe it'll wake you up.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


Heres the relevance..OK?

Please follow the simple logic.

This woman, a 92 year old, lived dring the Hebron Massacre. She is alive, in 2011. The period we live in.

She recollects with enjoyment the things the Arabs and her father did to 67 innocent Jews. The Relevance is in her being ABLE TO RELATE this history without any criticism from the Hamas media...OK? Understand? It is this sickening retelling that is proof of the perverted mentality of Arabs. It is normal, and fine, because the quran regards all non Muslims as dirty, reprehensible Kuffars deserving of the sword.

Did you ignore that statement i quoted of Ayotollah Khomeni? Or did you just ignore it because it didnt fit your romantic idealism?

reply to post by lifeissacred


Just to correct a couple of little mistakes in your post 'shahada' is the declaration of faith, the actual word you're looking for is 'shahid'. Even then suicide bombers cannot be shahid because they intend to kill themselves, every action is based upon it's intent and therefore they are dying as sinners not as martyrs. Shahid are people who die in service to God i.e. performing any faithful act which is prescribed in the Quran and dying whilst attempting to complete that task i.e. going on Hajj and dying of an illness would result in a person becoming a martyr.

I'm not trying to start an argument but the expulsion of the Jews from Israel 2000 years ago IS a pretty weak justification for the creation of the state of Israel at the expensive of the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of people who had made it home since then. Excluding people from the land they had grown up in, that their parents and grand parents had grown up in is morally abhorent and inhumane.
If I go back far enough in my ancestry I'd probably find some of my ancestors were driven out of a land somewhere, that wouldn't give me the right to go to wherever that place might be and take the land off of the people living there and call it my own.

I 100% support Israel's right to exist, but one sided nationalism and ignorance of the grievances each side has with each other will prolong the conflict, it won't result in peace.

reply to post by dontreally


You guys are essentially "beating around the bush". You still haven't adressed the question why is this massacare relevant to the Israel - Arab or Israel - Palestine conflict.

The only conselation you provided to the relevance of this massacare was that all Arabs retain this mentality. However I am smart enough to know this is untrue. I do not doubt that there are Arabs that retain anti-Semetic sentiment, however you demonize every Arab as an anti-Semetic and a barbarian. You blatantly attempt to demonize all Muslims, however I have met enough Muslims, Arabs and Persians to know that this is untrue. Not one of the many I met retained anti - Jewish sentiment or were extremists. I've met both devote and moderate muslims.

Your quote from Ayatollah Khomeine which I didn't see in the first place as I was not adressing you is also irrelevant. Khomeini was essentially a "bastard" but he was no Arab- He was a Persian. He is not a Palestinian either, so what the dead Ayatollah Khomeini said plays to relevance to the Israel - Arab/ Israel - Paletine conflict.

You are basing your whole argument on fear-mongering and speculation. The sad thing is that a few individuals who know little about the situation will believe you and go spread this idiocy elsewhere.

You still haven't adressed the question, how is this tragic massacre relavent to the current Israel - Paletine conflict?

If you trully believe that all Arabs/Persians would kill a Jew given the chance then you are dearly mistaken. Why aren't their an extremely large amount of dead settlers. Why are there 20,000 dead Jews in Iran? afterall Iran has the secound largest Jewish population in the Middle East after Israel.

DENY IGNORANCE

OK,

I used to have great talks with some Muslims I knew about religion and law and the two HUGE problems that come with Islam are this.

1. If a Muslim commits an act that is not considered part of Islam they do nothing to point it out. They just say "It is Allah who will punish them when they die." or "They are not true Muslims." They do not take any social responsibility for the things there own people do. It is only up to Allah. If a Christian commits a crime other Christians do not turn a blind eye. And not all Muslims do this either but the numbers of Muslims that would turn the other way is far far higher then the number of Christians who would do that.

2. Muslims are not encouraged to thing independently and use critical thinking in regards to it. They are taught to memorize the words but the meaning is strictly dictated by the religious leaders. It was like that with Christians in history but the people started to think for themselves and it is what created so many differently branches of Christianity. Because someone decided to understand the words and not just be able to rattle them off. So many poor Muslims send there children to the Masjids (sp) where they learn to "Read" by memorizing the lines of the Quran and reciting them over and over, but never taught to actually think of what the words mean. It allows the religious leaders to keep tight control of the people.

Our discussions brought a lot of other things up but this is two big issues.

Humanity transcends religious boundaries.

reply to post by lifeissacred

Just to correct a couple of little mistakes in your post 'shahada' is the declaration of faith, the actual word you're looking for is 'shahid'

It blanked out. I have so much on my mind.... Thankyou for respectfully reminding me

Even then suicide bombers cannot be shahid because they intend to kill themselves, every action is based upon it's intent and therefore they are dying as sinners not as martyrs

All i need do is quote the words of a modern Islamic legal authority, Yusuf Al Qaradawi:

Those who oppose martyrdom operations and claim that they are suicide are making a great mistake

"It has been determined by Islamic law that the blood and property of Dar Al Harb [the domain of disbelief where the battle for the dominion of Islam should be waged] is not protected. Because they fight against and are hostile towards the Muslims, they annulled the protection of his blood and property.... In Modern war all of society with all its classes and ethnic groups, is mobilized to participate in the war, to aid its continuation, and to provide it with material and human fuel required for it to assure the victory of the state fighting its enemies. Every citizen in society must take upon himself a role in the effort to provide for the battle. The entire domestic front, including professional, laborers, and industrialists, stands behind the fighting army, even if it does not bear arms. Therefore the experts say that the zionist entity, in truth, is one army. ...What weapon can harm their enemy, can prevent him from sleeping, and can strip him of a sense of security and stability, except for these human bombs -- a young man or woman who blows himself or herself up amongst their enemy. This is a weapon the likes of which the enemy cannot obtain, even if the US provides it with billions [of dollars] and the most powerful weapons, because it is a unique weapon that Allah has placed only in the hands of men of belief. It is a type of divine justice on the face of the earth.
....Those who oppose the martyrdom operations and claim that they are suicide are making a great mistake. The goals of the one who carries out a martyrdom operation and of the one who commits suicide are completely different. Anyone who analyzes the soul [of these two] will discover the huge difference between them. The [person who commits] suicide kill himself for himself, because he failed in business, love, an examination, or the like. He was too weak to cope with the situation of a higher goal, for which all sacrifices become meaningless. He sells himself to Allah in order to buy paradise for exchange. Allah said: " Allah has bought from the believers their souls and properties for they shall inherit paradise... While [the person who commits] suicide, dies in escape and retreat, the one who carries out a martyrdom dies in advance and attack. Unlike the [person who commits] suicide, who has no goal except escape from confrontation, the one who carries out a martyrdom operation has a clear goal, and that is to please Allah"

expensive of the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of people who had made it home since then.

Clearly you know nothing of the history of the creation of Israel. First, the original land recognized in 1947 by the UN partition plan was just the western coast of Israel which before 1930 had a sparse Arab population of 30,000 and NOT "Hundreds of thousands". Between 1920 and 1948 hundreds of thousands of Arabs from the Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Hedja, Egypt and the North Africa illegally migrated into Israel, assisted by the British turning their heads and took many of the jobs created by Jewish investment intended for Jews being persecuted at that time in Eastern Europe. So infact, the ARABS were the ones who displaced the Jews, and not viceverca.

And you think its weak? do you care at all about what the Jews have been subjected to throughout history? Whats with this cold-heartedness towards them? They had dominon over the land of Israel for over 1600 years. When the Romans expulled them in the early modern era, the Byzatium empire made sure they were never strong enough to come back. They were forced to become the "wandering Jew", as if made into a living symbol of the man of confusion. Then the Arabs came in during the late 7th century only to be kicked out 32 years later by the Abbasids (who were non-arabs..since people like to clump Berbers, Persians, Turks, Assyrians etc with Arabs).....The Jews during their exile, whether living in Morocco, or Egypt, or Portugal, or Lithunia, ALWAYS turned 3 times a day towards Jerusalem in prayer. In the morning, afternoon, and evening. There exle has been on of pain and sufferring, humiltation and persecution.... And even today people can not even grant this wandering nation the very land from which they were born? And instead side with the Arabs who dominate North Africa, The middle East, Central Asia and the East Indies? Ignorant of all the testimonies like Mark Twains analysis of the land of Palestine of the land being "desolate" and a shadow of its former self.

Read Joan Peters book " from time immemorial" if you want an accurate history, culled from ottoman, british documents of what Palestine was like before the massive Arab migration in the early 20th century. It was populated mainly nomads/bedouins, who of course are contantly moving from place to place.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant

You still haven't adressed the question why is this massacare relevant to the Israel - Arab or Israel - Palestine conflict.

Ummm.. What on earth are you talkin about? Do all threads which discuss Palestinians have to tie exactly into the Israel-Palestine conflict? This merely points out that in PALESTINE - and NOT IN AMERICA, OR EUROPE, ie; in a western paradigm, where the Muslims you regard as normal are not subject to the Islamic paradigm, being that they live in a non-muslim country, and so accordint to Islamic jurisprudence are NOT supposed to be friendly towards non-Muslims, or, at the very least, are following a different Islam that the VAST MAJORITY of muslims, living in Muslim countries follow - theres an incredibly fanatical and radical hatred for Jews, where mention of a horrendous massacre of Jews 80 years earlier evokes Arab pride and glory, as opposed to regret and shame. .............

Is it not funny that the West has apologized and lamented their history of slavery, wheras the muslims have not? Even though they were practicing it since their fundations and indeed continues on till this very day! Please educate yourself speachmilitant, cause you have absolutely no comprehension of Islam to be able to talk about it. (PS. Read the views of Al Qaradawi i took the time to quote......You 'peace lovers' really dont have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to Islam. You merely reiterate the views on CNN of "Islam is a religion of peace"... Ya. For MUSLIMS. And even than you have internacine violence between all sorts of Muslims)...

Khomeini was essentially a "bastard" but he was no Arab- He was a Persian

Ummm...again, WHAT!? What difference does it make if hes "not an arab, but a persian"??? HE studies the same Quran, Hadiths....Albeit, from a Shi'te perspective. If you knew even a modicum of Islam you would have made the separation of Sunni from Shi'te, and not Arab from Persian, which is the actual irrelevant piece of information. So because he is a Shi'te, his views apply specifically to Israels Northern enemy, Hizbollah, who of course are Shi'te.

fear-mongering and speculation

Seriously.. What is fear mongering about quoting Ayotollah Khomeni - a major figure in Shi'te Islam, or Yusuf Al Qaradawi, a major cleric who has A SHOW ON AL JAZEERA? Are you INSANE!? Seriously. Im simply quoting verbatim their words and saying, " Do you see...Islam does not intend peace! as we are told by the Media". These are THEIR WORDS.

You still haven't adressed the question, how is this tragic massacre relavent to the current Israel - Paletine conflict?

Are you serious? It shows that Israels enemies are psychopathic religious fanatics who cheer when Jews are killed. Do you see how people make up the factions in conflicts? understand? This Arab woman is a palestinian and the Hamas TV interviewer is also a palestinian, from Gaza.

reply to post by dontreally


"In 2004, 2,500 Muslim academics from Saudi Arabia, Iraq and from the Palestinian territories condemned Qaradawi and accused him of giving 'Islam a bad name.' "

He isn't the foremost Islamic scholar, he has a wide audience but to say he represents popular opinion on Jihad and martyrdom isn't so, it's not what the scholar says that matters it's what their book says, it condones fighting only in self defence and martyrdom only when it's involuntary.

That point aside I don't doubt there are some in the Islamic world who subscribe to the notion that suicide bombing (even if they don't agree with it's use) is martyrdom but the religious texts themselves clearly refute this idea so it shouldn't be blamed on the religion, merely the way certain people misrepresent it.

I have no cold heartedness towards the Jews either, I think the Jewish people as a whole are some of the most noble people in the world and their religion and culture is the catalyst and backbone of modern society. It's absolutely nescessary for a Jewish nation to exist, I think the Jews have a right to live wherever they want, including the land of Israel which is important to their ethnic and religious heritage. That being said I cannot condone the displacement of others in the name of the Jewish people. There were hundreds of thousands of refugees from Israel, whether they arrived there 20 years before they were displaced or 1000 years before they were displaced is a non-issue. Of course this is all history and cannot be undone, but it's because of this history that it's important that people don't just ignore the genuine grievences of the Palestinians or simply attribute any outrageous act committed against Israel as 'religious extremism' considering the complex history of the region.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by filosophia

 

You are sooooo full of #

All hail the expert in such matters!

You say the same thing anything is posted that makes Arabs look bad.... Have you ever really considered that some of them really are bad? Far worse than the zionists you whine about?

I like that for you, they have to be worse than the Zionists. Of course, you have to ask yourself; without the Zionists, sitting safe and sound in Britain and France, would these people have been funneled into someone else's backyard in the first place? it would seem to me that Zionist philosophy has actually been more harmful to Jews than to Arabs, in the long run of things.

And WHAT THE HELL are you talking about she looks too young for 92? My grandma is 86 and she looks just as young and vivacious. She looks no older than 70-75...

Fair point, really. I work with the elderly and I'm often surprised by how old some of those folks truly are. Looks like a diet of hummus and radishes is good for you

Why do you always deny the implications of these events? 67 Jews were murdered by vicious and lawless arabs....UNPROVOKED. They were peaceful, mostly poor Jews who did nothing to provoke the demonic ire of these muslims. Why do you still extenuate the seferity of their crimes? This happened 20 years before the 1948 war. There was no IDF, no Israel. Just Jews.. what caused these monsters to kill 67 human beings? WHAT DID THEY DO!? NOTHING. It was Islam and the barbaric Shari'a standard that they hold against non-muslims that was responsible for this horrific crime.

You forgot about the 435 Jews who were rescued and sheltered from the mob by their Arab Muslim neighbors.

Really, if you think that the Hebron massacres were something, you should have seen the nativist riots that struck New York just a few decades prior. Of course, I suppose when it's white Americans dragging Polish Jews through the streets, that's cool, it's only bad when it's Arabs doing it.

And still these monsters are not regarded as they should be. BARBARIANS....

Well, to be fair? Most of the people responsible for the Hebron Massacre of 1929 are sort of, you know, dead. Probably have been for quite a while.

Originally posted by Xenolite
1. If a Muslim commits an act that is not considered part of Islam they do nothing to point it out. They just say "It is Allah who will punish them when they die." or "They are not true Muslims." They do not take any social responsibility for the things there own people do. It is only up to Allah. If a Christian commits a crime other Christians do not turn a blind eye. And not all Muslims do this either but the numbers of Muslims that would turn the other way is far far higher then the number of Christians who would do that.

What fantasy world do you live in that has these conscientious, upstanding Christians? Okay, okay, maybe it's not another world, maybe just another country? 'Cause they don't live in the United States. And they certainly can't be Catholic, what with that "hide the pedophile" game the Church is playing, with the happy indulgence of slightly-embarrassed Catholics everywhere. It's not Uganda, of course, since they're instituting "Christian" laws there that make Iran look like a safe and sound place to go on a vice-filled vacation. I would ask about western Europe, but from what I gather, Christianity there is more like a hat style than a personal philosophical guide to life.

other Christians turn a blind eye all the damn time. At times it's more like a mafia than a religious group.

2. Muslims are not encouraged to thing independently and use critical thinking in regards to it. They are taught to memorize the words but the meaning is strictly dictated by the religious leaders. It was like that with Christians in history but the people started to think for themselves and it is what created so many differently branches of Christianity. Because someone decided to understand the words and not just be able to rattle them off. So many poor Muslims send there children to the Masjids (sp) where they learn to "Read" by memorizing the lines of the Quran and reciting them over and over, but never taught to actually think of what the words mean. It allows the religious leaders to keep tight control of the people.

Our discussions brought a lot of other things up but this is two big issues.

Well, they do end up with higher literacy rates than many Americans... But hey.

I hate to break it to you but the cause of so many branches of Christianity owes more for a domineering demand for minute uniformity and orthodoxy in every regard, than to any sort of quest for individuality. Seriously, congregations split based on who adheres to what; everyone outside that split is utterly and completely wrong about everything and is going to burn in hell. If Christianity were greatly accommodating of independent thought, there wouldn't need to be so many sects and denominations, it'd just be a wild and varied "Christianity"