The Bible Is A Forgery

Originally posted by chooselove
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

lol aren't u all sweetness and light

Not sweet at all,..

I'm salt.

reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms


yes, man definitely seems to have created god in his own image

This whole non-Reality we are engaged in is a FORGERY. But that's besides the point. It's important to argue about whose lie is more reflective of the REAL truth. Leave truth to the experts. It's more fun talking about the experts and who is the best at misrepresenting the truth. Drama is so much more fun than waking up as your God self. After all, you created this non-Reality to experience yourself in this way.. so enjoy! When you get bored, do us all a favor and end time.

But, you can have 2nd - 4th century writings from men from Alexandria, Egypt who were led by a heretic who died in the robes of a pagan priest. (Justin Martyr)

A lot of christian customs, holidays and traditions come from the pagans, take the most important holiday to Christians, it is Easter and it comes from what you call pagan.

Isn't forgery an almost indecernable and accurate copy of an original?

Thanks for supporting the accuracy of the Bible in it's copying.

Originally posted by pepsi78

A lot of christian customs, holidays and traditions come from the pagans, take the most important holiday to Christians, it is Easter and it comes from what you call pagan.

... which has exactly nothing to do with whether the Bible is a forgery.

And we know these things; there's even a book that's been out for years called Pagan Christianity, by Frank Viola, a very solid believer. We can tell the difference between meat and bones, this is nothing new.

Originally posted by Gibborium
God didn't want material things from David, He wanted David.

And to be saved today, we must want Jesus, not just rewards or escape from hell. Most people are told that it's the words, the prayer, that works some kind of magic, but what God wants is us and for us to want him in return. Our catchphrase should be "We implore you on God's behalf: be reconciled to God!", not "Repent or die, sinner!"


@others: Sure, a lot of Christians don't get it. But I do hope that someday those of you claiming to know something about love will learn to demonstrate it instead of hypocritically bashing us for not loving (as you define it): "Love each other, you bleeping morons!" is a mixed message at best!

Originally posted by pepsi78

But, you can have 2nd - 4th century writings from men from Alexandria, Egypt who were led by a heretic who died in the robes of a pagan priest. (Justin Martyr)

A lot of christian customs, holidays and traditions come from the pagans, take the most important holiday to Christians, it is Easter and it comes from what you call pagan.

I'm fully aware of this.

What does that have to do with what I said?

"Two wrongs make a right" is still a fallacy of logic I believe.

... which has exactly nothing to do with whether the Bible is a forgery.

It is a forgery and it is not, it's a forgery because lots of the original texts were altered, bad translation, misinterpretation of the texts, depends how you look on to it. Then of course there is a lot of information in the bible
that is pretty good, that tells the truth. If the bible was made as a book along with religion to control people then yes, better to call it a control tool rather than a forgery, if this is the case then you can call it that.
A forgery would be called only for altering the original texts, translating something wrong with intention.

Originally posted by pepsi78
it's a forgery because lots of the original texts were altered,

How do you know?

bad translation, misinterpretation of the texts, depends how you look on to it.

None of which has anything to do with forgery, or with the original writings, or the earliest extant manuscripts.

Forgery is a deliberate attempt to pass off a fake as an original. If we're going to redefine "forgery" then let's be consistent and call ALL ancient documents forgeries. Almost everyone who trashes the Bible completely ignores the even worse problems with other religious and secular writings. The day they apply their standards consistently is the day they have a right to make all these accusations against the Bible. In all my years I've never seen that happen, and I'm not betting it ever will.

Then of course there is a lot of information in the bible, that is pretty good, that tells the truth.

How do you know? What standard do you use to tell good from bad, fact from allegory, beyond your personal preference for what should be there?

If the bible was made as a book along with religion to control people then yes, better to call it a control tool rather than a forgery, if this is the case then you can call it that.

The question is whether you've already decided beforehand that the Bible is a control book. But you have to admit that it's a very strange control book that tells people, "You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free".

A forgery would be called only for altering the original texts, translating something wrong with intention.

Exactly. So whoever can prove beyond dispute that the Bible writers had ill intent can call it a forgery; until then, they can stop making the charge.

Originally posted by SaberTruth

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

God is humble. A humble nature does not desire worship.

Humility is the recognition of being in a lower position than someone else. God is above all, or he isn't God at all. It's an oxymoron to say that God is humble. But people, mere mortals with many equals, must be humble before God and not desire to be worshiped.

Humility is seeing equality. It is also a attribute of the nature of Spirit. God is within all things, God is not something that is separate from you or outside of you. The humility comes in when one see's that all others hold the Spirit within them also. God does not desire nor need, worship. God is not a prideful nature. Discover the nature of Spirit within you which is humble and seeks harmony with all that it is of.

As you try to kneel before God...the Spirit kneels beside you. The reason we too are to become of this nature and find this very true nature within us, is to let the nature of Spirit become us, more then the nature of flesh which is prideful.

Many have been taught that God likes to be powerful and enjoys claiming authority....when God is a nature...not some being outside of us, separate from us.

With out the eternal Spirit, none of us would 'be'. When one discovers this...humility takes place. You can be humble before the nature of Spirit...but that does not mean that the nature of Spirit is a prideful nature that desires worship. The Spirit has no need for worship.

Originally posted by leejohnbarnes

Originally posted by LeoVirgo

for not all men or women may attain the Gnosis.

This is not truth.

That is truth - just as not all Buddhists achieve Arhat / enlightenment.

All men and women, and none more so then others....may achieve understanding. Not saying they will but even someone who does not believe in a 'god' can still become the humble nature of Spirit more so then the prideful nature of flesh...all through being in tune with the orders of nature.

One does not have to have knowledge from books, to let the spiritual nature shine through them. Some have become the nature of Spirit and are not aware of it. They hold people as equals, they are compassionate, they wish for harmony amongst mankind, they know the worth of offering to others, they have empathy for those that know not what they do, they try to find understanding in those that are hurt and then hurt others.

I see what you are saying in that following a certain belief can hold one back from growing in Spirit...but there is no group of people that are more worthy then others, of growing in things of Spirit.

If one seeks with a humble heart and honest mind...the Spirit will shine in them.

Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms
Reading the 12th planet some years ago and rereading the OT made a lot of sense to me. Not saying Sitchin's (sp?) theory is true, but the God listed in the OT is certainly not omnipotent, nor loving and actually shares many qualities of the Greek Gods in temperament. Very vain, jealous, spiteful, and intolerant. More humanistic qualities than anything I would attest to a God that created the cosmos.

This is a very good point. Many will read something and except what it says, without discerning it through the nature of Spirit.

Attributes like jealousy, spitefulness, ect...are attributes that are a in effect, from the cause, of being 'in the flesh'. They are not in Spirit.

We are in a age where more and more people are seeking things of Spirit through discernment of the kingdom within them and are discovering this nature of Spirit that was once known by man.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Humility is seeing equality.

Only between equals. We are not equals to God; no one is. All human beings are equal, and all are below God.

God is within all things, God is not something that is separate from you or outside of you.

This is Panentheism (not Pantheism, BTW), not Christianity or any teaching from the Bible. Your other statements following this are likewise unbiblical and non-Christian. Once again, this is unrelated to the OP.

Rev. 19:10-- Then I fell down at [the angel's] feet to worship him, but he said, "No, don't worship me. I am a servant of God, just like you and your brothers and sisters who testify about their faith in Jesus. Worship only God. For the essence of prophecy is to give a clear witness for Jesus."

reply to post by SaberTruth


We are to give reverence that the Spirit is our true nature...is our true self...that being of 'flesh' is not our true self.

You can call it what ever you like...but it is the truth that can be found through anyone that seeks. The nature of God is something that we dont need books to tell us about Thee...this is the beauty of things of Spirit...that Thee can be found in the very design and fabric of creation.

This world and purpose was not made for us to have to read material books to learn about our true nature. The gems of understanding are in 'life' itself, in a place that the 'word' will never be distorted and can be found by all men at any time.

God is eternal and infinite...and often we then will think that Thee then must be prideful of its own existence and 'being'.

Ask yourself...why are we to become humble, giving, merciful, understanding, loving. The reason is...because this is the nature of Spirit. To become these attributes, we are allowing our true nature to shine through. The kingdom is within is also showing us that the Spirit, is within us, all of us, within all life. Understanding that 'life' can not be, without being filled with Spirit.

Its not wrong to believe different or understand differently....for what ever one believes will have purpose for them to learn. When we all see through that divine eye after death...we see all is one and that all is expressions of Spirit through 'life'. We see that to harm another, is to harm ourselves. What ever we believe, there are reason for that...and there is understanding of why we accepted it.

There is no punishment....there is only learning and growing.

Heaven becoming on earth....is the conscious life on earth learning how to live more as spiritual beings, letting the light of Spirit shine through and 'become' here.

The key to all of this is knowing the kingdom is within, not somewhere 'out there'. Knowing that all can only existent, with the Spirit within it.

The very word in Genesis that was translated as 'created' actually means 'filled'.

God filled the earth and heavens.

reply to post by Gibborium

Originally posted by Gibborium
Exodus 20:13 - Thou shalt not kill. The hebrew word used here is ratsach. Strong's Lexicon shows the meaning to be:

1) to murder, slay, kill a) (Qal) to murder, slay 1) premeditated 2) accidental 3) as avenger 4) slayer (intentional) (participle) b) (Niphal) to be slain c) (Piel) 1) to murder, assassinate 2) murderer, assassin (participle)(subst)

Originally posted by Gibborium
Murder is different than just killing.

Murder and killing, are one and the same thing!

The word “kill” makes up part of the definition of the word “ratsach”

Originally posted by Gibborium
The Oxford Dictionary says - Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

The Ten Commandments, were written long before the Oxford Dictionary definition of the word “Murder”

Originally posted by Gibborium
Killing is an act of causing death. God made a distinction between killing as in animals, and murder which is a premeditated killing of a human being by another human being.

So you are wrong in your interpretation of the verse.

Where does God make this distinction?

Originally posted by Gibborium
You have lifted Psalm 40:6 out of context. The context is that David is lamenting and telling God that he understood that it was not sacrifices and offerings that he wanted from him,

Yes, that’s why I brought up the verse, in connection to killing, because like you said “…that he understood that it was not sacrifices and offerings that he wanted from him”, it is relevant, because what David realized, applies to all of us.

I was simply agreeing with the point that Akragon made…(see below)

Originally posted by Akragon
Sacrifice of the flesh sure as hell doesn't mean kill anything, especially animals. They're God's creations, perfect in every way and completely inline with nature... Innocent. The men in the OT didn't understand "harmlessness" even though it was written in their own commandments "thou shall not kill".

Originally posted by Gibborium

6 Sacrifice and offering you did not desire— but my ears you have opened[c]— burnt offerings and sin offerings[d] you did not require. 7 Then I said, “Here I am, I have come— it is written about me in the scroll.[e] 8 I desire to do your will, my God; your law is within my heart.” NIV

God didn't want material things from David, He wanted David.

Yes, I agree, God wanted David, not his sacrifices, and by what he describes in the above verse, David finally realized that. He realized that God never required, or needed animals to be sacrificed, to begin with.

Originally posted by Gibborium
And in Isaiah 1:11-17:

10 Hear the word of the LORD, you rulers of Sodom; listen to the instruction of our God, you people of Gomorrah! 11 “The multitude of your sacrifices— what are they to me?” says the LORD. “I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats. 12 When you come to appear before me, who has asked this of you, this trampling of my courts? 13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings! Your incense is detestable to me. New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations— I cannot bear your worthless assemblies. 14 Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals I hate with all my being. They have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them. 15 When you spread out your hands in prayer, I hide my eyes from you; even when you offer many prayers, I am not listening. NIV

God is chastising the Israelites because they were still following the law (sacrifices, etc) but their hearts were not God's. This displeased Him. He was not angry because they were giving sacrifices, but because in their hearts they no longer loved God, so their sacrifices were meaninless.

God was chastising the Israelites because they were following their own laws (sacrifices, etc), and not God’s Laws.

I mean, how much clearer can the words of God be!

“I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.”

“Stop bringing meaningless offerings!”

Do you think that if the Israelites put more feeling and love, into the animal sacrifices, that God would then find the sacrifices more worthy and pleasing…

I don’t think so…

Originally posted by Gibborium
Now even though this is somewhat off topic, it is still relevant, because it demonstrates how the OP is misled in many of his statements on Gnosticism and who authored the Holy Scriptures.

Well I don’t agree with a lot of what the OP has stated, but my first post on this thread, was only a response to what Akragon had posted, which I completely agreed with.


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft


Hi Joecraft...

I agree with what you said. And I think that when Jesus became upset at the Temple is was because of the selling of animals for sacrifices.

I think Jesus really did want to put a end to the blood sacrifices...by teaching that it was not needed. But still, the people did not except alot of what they taught...so they still made him the very thing he taught against, which was a blood sacrifice.


He taught us how to live more for the life of Spirit and in doing so...this life is not the life to fight for. Knowing he was living for the life of Spirit....he also chose and came to a understanding, that it would not be right for him to fight for this life when they came to want him killed. It was not a easy path...but he stay sure footed and strong in knowing what the nature of Spirit would do.

Jesus is a great teacher in how to live for the life of Spirit over the life of flesh.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
We are to give reverence that the Spirit is our true nature...is our true self...that being of 'flesh' is not our true self.

Who says this is true, and on what basis? This is your opinion, and that's fine, but I have a different opinion.

The nature of God is something that we dont need books to tell us about Thee...this is the beauty of things of Spirit...that Thee can be found in the very design and fabric of creation.

Then we don't need any books at all, and we all get to make up whatever we want. Words don't become false as soon as ink meets paper; the question is the source of the thoughts. God saw to it that his words were recorded so we remember them, and so we have an objective source to compare all alleged revelations to. Books are not evil just because they're written.

Ask yourself...why are we to become humble, giving, merciful, understanding, loving. The reason is...because this is the nature of Spirit. To become these attributes, we are allowing our true nature to shine through. The kingdom is within is also showing us that the Spirit, is within us, all of us, within all life. Understanding that 'life' can not be, without being filled with Spirit.

Again, we are not equal with God, and what Jesus modeled for us is how we are to relate to God. There are plenty of scripture passages that explain the difference. But the indwelling Holy Spirit is only for those who accept Jesus. I didn't make any of this up; it's from the mind of God as recorded in the Bible.

There is no punishment....there is only learning and growing.

Then there is no justice, no concern for victims of crime. I love them too much to rob them of this.

reply to post by Joecroft

Murder and killing, are one and the same thing!

Not true, that's a fallacy. Because:

All Murders are killings, but not all killings are murder.

God commanded the penalty of death for certain transgressions. The commandment in Hebrew is pretty clear, it says "Thou shalt not murder".

This is clearly the problem with literal interpretation of worded scripture. I've read that Jesus spoke in parables for this exact reason. Playing semantics with particular words in the bible for the sake of proving one sects particular view point is the downfall of dogmatic traditions. Trying to understand a God with the ability to make universes based on written testaments based on man's interpretation, is the ultimate fallacy.