The Bible Is A Forgery

Originally posted by leejohnbarnes

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by leejohnbarnes

 

If you are forced to read the bible you'll learn absolutely nothing. Read it of your own free will and you may be supprized what you find.

Heres a pro tip for ya...

Start with Matthew, not Genesis

edit on 19-5-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

I wont ever read the OT.

Its full of violence. hate, war and genocide.

Its like Mein Kampf.

Then you are a hypocrite. You claim to know that the Bible has been forged, yet you state you will never read the Old Testament. That makes your whole argument moot.

Originally posted by leejohnbarnes
I never asked about the status of Buddhism or its status as a religion - though saying Buddhism is not a religion is total nonsense.

Well, I guess that we can add Buddhism to the list of things you claim to understand, but don't even get the elementary facts right. It is not a religion like Christianity, Gnosticism or Hinduism, sorry. Both Buddhists and (knowledgeable) non-Buddhists will tell you that. Here's a overview.

Does a Chrsitian Fundementalist believe a Buddhist will enter the kingdom of heaven ?

How should I know what a Christian Fundamentalist believes, since I am not one? And what difference does it make what they believe, anyway? Do you think that belief makes reality?

Will a paedophile priest who has abused hundreds of children, who repents on his last breath, go to heaven?

Repentance means true regret, and I have always viewed "deathbed repentance" to be the result of someone being sorry that they are dying, not being sorry that they lived an unrighteous life. That said, it's kind of up to God to make that judgement, isn't it?

To the OP, bravo! Most Christians aren't aware that their belief stems from a particular sect that was sanctioned by the Roman Empire (considered literalists). There were many different sects at the time, most were Gnostics, but most Gnostics had different teachings similar to today's different sects within the literalist line. Some Gnostics were polytheists, some mixed Christianity (a term which I believe wasn't coined till after about 300 AD) with pagan beliefs, some combined "Christian" teachings with eastern mystical systems etc..

Constantine ordered all other sects beside the one that he approved to replace the then Roman Gods (Mars, Venus etc..) polytheistic religions with a chosen new Monotheistic God (which became the original Catholicism). All Gnostic "fringe" sects were banded heretics and where burned at the stake if caught practicing their beliefs.

Some choose to practice their religion in secret and hid their scriptures and holy texts. Some of the texts were found (Nag Hammadi, Dead Sea Scrolls) with other gospels and other sayings attributed to Jesus which in some ways contradict current gospels. These long lost scrolls were written in Aramaic and Old Greek and are believed to pre-date some of the texts in the current bible today.

I could never wrap my mind over a religion with so many followers based on a history of violence, intolerance, corruption and genocide. To make matters worse the process of translation (from Aramaic, to Greek, to Latin, To German, To English), and at the same time with edits, omitions, and word play. And that's not even discussing the content and belief system itself

Sorry not meant to offend anyone, I have many Christian friends and relatives, but it's hard for me to understand how people continue to actually believe in something with such a dubious past.

So, with you having just disqualified yourself. I bid you farewell and will leave you to ponder what has been shown to you. You are steadfast in your beliefs, which you are entitled to, and no amount of truth will persuade you otherwise.

This has been fun. And it has been real. But it has not been real fun. hmmmm . . .

Originally posted by Gibborium

Originally posted by leejohnbarnes

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by leejohnbarnes

 

If you are forced to read the bible you'll learn absolutely nothing. Read it of your own free will and you may be supprized what you find.

Heres a pro tip for ya...

Start with Matthew, not Genesis

edit on 19-5-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

I wont ever read the OT.

Its full of violence. hate, war and genocide.

Its like Mein Kampf.

Then you are a hypocrite. You claim to know that the Bible has been forged, yet you state you will never read the Old Testament. That makes your whole argument moot.

I have never read all of Das Kapital either.

That doesnt mean I cannot criticise communism.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by leejohnbarnes
I never asked about the status of Buddhism or its status as a religion - though saying Buddhism is not a religion is total nonsense.

Well, I guess that we can add Buddhism to the list of things you claim to understand, but don't even get the elementary facts right. It is not a religion like Christianity, Gnosticism or Hinduism, sorry. Both Buddhists and (knowledgeable) non-Buddhists will tell you that. Here's a overview.

Does a Chrsitian Fundementalist believe a Buddhist will enter the kingdom of heaven ?

How should I know what a Christian Fundamentalist believes, since I am not one? And what difference does it make what they believe, anyway? Do you think that belief makes reality?

Will a paedophile priest who has abused hundreds of children, who repents on his last breath, go to heaven?

Repentance means true regret, and I have always viewed "deathbed repentance" to be the result of someone being sorry that they are dying, not being sorry that they lived an unrighteous life. That said, it's kind of up to God to make that judgement, isn't it?

1) Oh look Buddhism a religion ;

en.wikipedia.org...

www.bbc.co.uk...



2 ) I agree - repentence on the death bed by sinners is motivated by fear not regret or the desire for forgiveness.


3) Of course belief makes reality - especially for the victms of those in the grip of a belief eg communism, nazism, zionism, fundamentalist christianity

Originally posted by Gibborium
So, with you having just disqualified yourself. I bid you farewell and will leave you to ponder what has been shown to you. You are steadfast in your beliefs, which you are entitled to, and no amount of truth will persuade you otherwise.

This has been fun. And it has been real. But it has not been real fun. hmmmm . . .

Come back any time - we will be here.

Caio.

reply to post by Gibborium


Actually i understand what he's saying the OT is full of that kind of stuff. Still one must remember the book was written by the hand of man, inspired or not.

The OT gives you examples of how men acted before Christ. The use of sacrifice for atonement was a seriously misunderstood concept. Sacrifice of the flesh sure as hell doesn't mean kill anything, especially animals. They're God's creations, perfect in every way and completely inline with nature... Innocent. The men in the OT didn't understand "harmlessness" even though it was written in their own commandments "thou shall not kill".

Reading the OT is good to see how people can misunderstand God. Litterally millions of people were killed "in the name of God" yet i garentee not one was the result of God himself speaking. Men with agendas, people that wanted to maintain their power or status in the eyes of man.

Christ showed the narrow path, and few understood what he meant, even though he showed it not only in words but by example... This still holds true today actually

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Gibborium

 

Actually i understand what he's saying the OT is full of that kind of stuff. Still one must remember the book was written by the hand of man, inspired or not.

The OT gives you examples of how men acted before Christ. The use of sacrifice for atonement was a seriously misunderstood concept. Sacrifice of the flesh sure as hell doesn't mean kill anything, especially animals. They're God's creations, perfect in every way and completely inline with nature... Innocent. The men in the OT didn't understand "harmlessness" even though it was written in their own commandments "thou shall not kill".

Reading the OT is good to see how people can misunderstand God. Litterally millions of people were killed "in the name of God" yet i garentee not one was the result of God himself speaking. Men with agendas, people that wanted to maintain their power or status in the eyes of man.

Christ showed the narrow path, and few understood what he meant, even though he showed it not only in words but by example... This still holds true today actually

edit on 19-5-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Major rep.

Great post.

Originally posted by leejohnbarnes
1) Oh look Buddhism a religion ;

Applying a label to something does not make it so...

3) Of course belief makes reality

...well, apparently you think that it does.

I'm going to suggest that when you get to university, take an introductory course in philosophy. Far too many people stay away from it, because they think that it's outdated or boring, but it helps a person to think, understand and reason beyond simple regurgitation of what others say and which they happen to agree with.

Originally posted by leejohnbarnes

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by leejohnbarnes

 

Your 'lord' that you praise is Yaldaboath.

The throne of your God is the throne of the demiurge.

Wrong, my Lord is Yeshua Ha-Mashiach.

He's the only Lord worthy of my worship and praise.

Yes - Yaldaboath.

It has many names.

Lol! No, "Yeshua Ha-Mashiach" is:

Jesus the Messiah in Hebrew.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by leejohnbarnes

 

my friend there is much truth in the bible...

Take it from someone whos studied both the Gnostic and Christian scriptures. I believe both have the teachings of Christ, just different aspects of them. Some of which were removed by the church such as reincarnation. You can still find evidence of reincarnation in the bible if you know where to look. This leads me to believe many of the gnostic teachings actually belong in the bible but didn't coinside with the leaders of the churches thoughts on Christ at the time. Also considering the gnostics were basically wiped out by the church it makes you wonder what were they trying to to hide. Although once you read the gnostic scriptures you can clearly see what was thought to be heretical

Of course the reason some info was taken out was control over the populous. If people believed they have "one life to live" then you should make the best out of that life. And the best way is to follow those who are closest with God (the church) This sad ideal is still in effect today. Follow what the church tells you to follow, condem all others that don't believe what your church tells you to believe.

Unfortunatly the path of the church usually leads to judgement of others.

Read the words of Christ in the bible my friend... His words are truth

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ok this has to do with the Bible .. examle of how god saw things according to the Bible.

It's about Cain and GOD not accepting his offerings Cain was a farmer and he offered GOD his bounty from his field fruit .... Whereas Able tended his flock of Sheep and he offered god blood and fat which really pleased GOD.
Reference link:

Why Was Cain’s Sacrifice Rejected?

www.christiancourier.com...

Now to me this is really a sad and rather unfair to belittle someone and refuse Cains offering just because there was a misunderstanding and I doublt it was just Jealousy that made Cain kill his Brother..
But it also makes a point of teling how much GOD was more pleased with the Blood and fat recieved by Able

Because it was a bloodless sacrifice in this instance. Abel brought forth a bloody sacrifice, and the fat thereof.


I rearely get into the details of this story book but it is clear to me all the way through it speaks of killiings and war .. Take a look at the Vatican all about Money .. IMO It also makes no sense why GOD would want Offerings anyways .. so to more or less he is saying .. Please go kill some animals for me???

Abel, he was a shepherd, He worked hard he offered up of the fat firstlings of his flock in great love, with a pure heart and a sincere mind.

Cain,on the other hand was a husbandman, made an offering of some of the refuse of the fruits of his husbandry with reluctance. Cain made an offering of ears of wheat that were smitten by blight; Although some have said of straw only. And God came down from heaven and consumed the offering of Abel, it was accepted; while the offering of Cain was rejected.

This is how I see it Cains offering wasnt good enough for GOD plain an simple an if that aint unfair .. Who would write this about God if he is so forgiving .. DONT make any sense at all therefore I dont really think these were the true words of any Divine being ..

Reading the 12th planet some years ago and rereading the OT made a lot of sense to me. Not saying Sitchin's (sp?) theory is true, but the God listed in the OT is certainly not omnipotent, nor loving and actually shares many qualities of the Greek Gods in temperament. Very vain, jealous, spiteful, and intolerant. More humanistic qualities than anything I would attest to a God that created the cosmos.

i choose love you can all keep your arguments and your evil hate inspiring texts, books, scrolls from who cares when. If there ever was a jesus i think you all have missed the point. Live your life in the moment and always always choose love. Stop being so afraid of others beliefs or non beliefs.

reply to post by Akragon

Originally posted by Akragon
The OT gives you examples of how men acted before Christ. The use of sacrifice for atonement was a seriously misunderstood concept. Sacrifice of the flesh sure as hell doesn't mean kill anything, especially animals. They're God's creations, perfect in every way and completely inline with nature... Innocent. The men in the OT didn't understand "harmlessness" even though it was written in their own commandments "thou shall not kill".

Exactly!….well said…

The commandment does not say, “Thou shall not kill humans”, it say’s “thou shall not kill!”…period!

Also, there are verses in the OT, which allude to God being against sacrifices of animals… For example…Psalm 40:6 “Sacrifice and offering thou does not require…” and Isaiah 1-11:17 “I do not delight in the blood…” etc…And there are many other similar verses.

Originally posted by Akragon
Christ showed the narrow path, and few understood what he meant, even though he showed it not only in words but by example... This still holds true today actually

Yes, I agree with the above… most people don’t seem to understand, that it is Jesus life message and example, which is the most important thing, above all else.

You seem to have a lot of wisdom Akragon. May I enquire as to whether you are a Christian?


- JC

reply to post by NorthStargal52

This is how I see it Cains offering wasnt good enough for GOD plain an simple an if that aint unfair .. Who would write this about God if he is so forgiving .. DONT make any sense at all therefore I dont really think these were the true words of any Divine being .

Every ritual, every number, place name, everything points to Jesus Christ. The reason God rejected Cain's sacrifice is it was done by Cain's "works", his sweat and effort to grow the crops. Abel's sacrifice was the shedding of innocent blood. A type/foreshadowing of Jesus shedding His innocent blood.

reply to post by adjensen

You asked an off-topic question and directed it to "Christian Fundamentalists". Whom do you expect is going to answer it?

I'm a born-again, blood-bought, Bible-thumpin, child of the Living God, Christian fundamentalist, so I guess the Q is for me...

God doesn't judge on a curve. God doesn't judge "good" vs "bad", God doesn't compare you to the drunk down the street. God compares you to Jesus Christ, His Son. God judges "perfect" and "imperfect". God gives two options to being justified in His sight. You can follow the 613 laws of Moses, perfectly, at all times, your entire life w/o messing up once. Or you can admit you're a sinner, and ask Jesus to forgive you all your sins.

So the hypothetical Buddhist you mention, if his sins are not covered by the shed blood of Jesus Christ he will go to hell. I know that's a very offensive truth to tell here, but the Bible says the gospel of Jesus Christ will be quite offensive to those on the highway to Hell. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


lol aren't u all sweetness and light

Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by Akragon

 

Originally posted by Akragon
The OT gives you examples of how men acted before Christ. The use of sacrifice for atonement was a seriously misunderstood concept. Sacrifice of the flesh sure as hell doesn't mean kill anything, especially animals. They're God's creations, perfect in every way and completely inline with nature... Innocent. The men in the OT didn't understand "harmlessness" even though it was written in their own commandments "thou shall not kill".

Exactly!….well said…

The commandment does not say, “Thou shall not kill humans”, it say’s “thou shall not kill!”…period!

Also, there are verses in the OT, which allude to God being against sacrifices of animals… For example…Psalm 40:6 “Sacrifice and offering thou does not require…” and Isaiah 1-11:17 “I do not delight in the blood…” etc…And there are many other similar verses.

Originally posted by Akragon
Christ showed the narrow path, and few understood what he meant, even though he showed it not only in words but by example... This still holds true today actually

Yes, I agree with the above… most people don’t seem to understand, that it is Jesus life message and example, which is the most important thing, above all else.

You seem to have a lot of wisdom Akragon. May I enquire as to whether you are a Christian?


- JC

edit on 19-5-2011 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)

Exodus 20:13 - Thou shalt not kill. The hebrew word used here is ratsach. Strong's Lexicon shows the meaning to be:

1) to murder, slay, kill a) (Qal) to murder, slay 1) premeditated 2) accidental 3) as avenger 4) slayer (intentional) (participle) b) (Niphal) to be slain c) (Piel) 1) to murder, assassinate 2) murderer, assassin (participle)(subst)

Murder is different than just killing. The Oxford Dictionary says - Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

Killing is an act of causing death. God made a distinction between killing as in animals, and murder which is a premeditated killing of a human being by another human being.

So you are wrong in your interpretation of the verse.



You have lifted Psalm 40:6 out of context. The context is that David is lamenting and telling God that he understood that it was not sacrifices and offerings that he wanted from him,

6 Sacrifice and offering you did not desire— but my ears you have opened[c]— burnt offerings and sin offerings[d] you did not require. 7 Then I said, “Here I am, I have come— it is written about me in the scroll.[e] 8 I desire to do your will, my God; your law is within my heart.” NIV

God didn't want material things from David, He wanted David.

And in Isaiah 1:11-17:

10 Hear the word of the LORD, you rulers of Sodom; listen to the instruction of our God, you people of Gomorrah! 11 “The multitude of your sacrifices— what are they to me?” says the LORD. “I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats. 12 When you come to appear before me, who has asked this of you, this trampling of my courts? 13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings! Your incense is detestable to me. New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations— I cannot bear your worthless assemblies. 14 Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals I hate with all my being. They have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them. 15 When you spread out your hands in prayer, I hide my eyes from you; even when you offer many prayers, I am not listening. NIV

God is chastising the Israelites because they were still following the law (sacrifices, etc) but their hearts were not God's. This displeased Him. He was not angry because they were giving sacrifices, but because in their hearts they no longer loved God, so their sacrifices were meaninless.

Now even though this is somewhat off topic, it is still relevant, because it demonstrates how the OP is misled in many of his statements on Gnosticism and who authored the Holy Scriptures. Quoting something out of context and ignoring to even read (know and understand) what you are arguing against only shows your ignorance and defeats your argument.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by adjensen

 

You asked an off-topic question and directed it to "Christian Fundamentalists". Whom do you expect is going to answer it?

I'm a born-again, blood-bought, Bible-thumpin, child of the Living God, Christian fundamentalist, so I guess the Q is for me...

God doesn't judge on a curve. God doesn't judge "good" vs "bad", God doesn't compare you to the drunk down the street. God compares you to Jesus Christ, His Son. God judges "perfect" and "imperfect". God gives two options to being justified in His sight. You can follow the 613 laws of Moses, perfectly, at all times, your entire life w/o messing up once. Or you can admit your a sinner, and ask Jesus to forgive you all your sins.

So the hypothetical Buddhist you mention, if his sins are not covered by the shed blood of Jesus Christ he will go to hell. I know that's a very offensive truth to tell here, but the Bible says the gospel of Jesus Christ will be quite offensive to those on the highway to Hell. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Good words. "and the truth shall be made known"