A Chemtrail Challenge - FACT or BELIEF?

Many chemmie's claim that chemtrails are a FACT - "the evidence is all around us", etc.

However FACT requires objective, logical verifiable EVIDENCE to support it, and chemtrails have proven consistently immune to all of those

BELIEF, on the other hand, is a personal thing that requires no such support - you can believe in what you like & not have to provide "proof" to anyone - but if you do tell people reasons why you believe something and it makes no sense to them then there are some fairly obvious consequences!

So here's a challenge to Chemtrail believers.

Admit that chemtrails are NOT a FACT (because there is no such evidence), and that in FACT what you have is a personal BELIEF (for whatever reasons).

It is natural for people to want to share their beliefs, and to try to persuade others of their beliefs, so I'm not asking chemmies to shut up - just to acknowledge that without verifiable evidence they are misleading people if they say chemtrails are a FACT.

I wonder if anyone will be able to do so?

We are tired of proving it..You unbelievers prove that it isn't real for a change...You can't just like we can't...not to everyones satisfaction anyway....

Originally posted by Caji316
We are tired of proving it..You unbelievers prove that it isn't real for a change...You can't just like we can't...not to everyones satisfaction anyway....

The fact of the matter is that none of the "chemtrail" believers can qualify their beliefs with objectively verifiable facts or evidence. Altogether the belief in chemtrails seems to be taken more on faith than anything else.

reply to post by Caji316


So you didn't actually read the OP at all then? Why am I not surprised?!

I can't see how you could possibly be "tired of proving it" when not one single verifiable fact "proving" the existence of contrails exists.

NOT ONE.

I think you are tired of telling us why you BELIEVE contrails exist - and you don't realise it.

Originally posted by adeclerk

Altogether the belief in chemtrails seems to be taken more on faith than anything else.

Exactly - hence my "challenge" to see if they can understand the basis of their own "knowledge".

So far it's 1 for nought....

there is no proof..
turbo fan engines produce way more water vapor than the old engines..
plus, way more air traffic in the last dozen or so years..
people are living longer lives..
air samples and soil samples indicate nothing out of the ordinary..
just crazy people into conspiracies..

btw, this is the third tread I have read today dealing with the burden of proof..I like the approach..
but you will just get responses like the first one here..
total denial of ACTUAL evidence..

Originally posted by Caji316
We are tired of proving it..You unbelievers prove that it isn't real for a change...You can't just like we can't...not to everyones satisfaction anyway....

But nothing has been proven? .. not once.. the fact is that contrails are a known phenomena .. chemtrails are an unproven theory.. but chemtrail believers can't accept that they are not verifiable fact.

Originally posted by Caji316
You can't just like we can't...

And there's the admission. No, you can't prove it because "chemtrails" do not exist. What we can prove is that contrails have been seen in the skies since the advent of powered flight.

And chemtrailers don't take any initiative to prove their cause either. If something was being sprayed, it would be all over every single thing outside. And because of that, any single thing outside can be swabbed and tested in the lab. There are things that can be done to prove if "they" really are spraying anything, but nobody is doing anything to prove it.

Since you admitted you can't prove it, how about you all stop with the "chemtrail" disinformation and perpetuating the "chemtrail" HOAX? All it has amounted to is fear-mongering. And last time I checked, terrorists use fear to perpetuate their cause.

reply to post by pccat


Yep - hence I'm not actually asking for proof at all!!

I'm asking them to acknowledge that what they have is "belief".

but generally, as you, I am not expecting a particularly positive response!

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by Caji316
You can't just like we can't...

And there's the admission. No, you can't prove it because "chemtrails" do not exist. What we can prove is that contrails have been seen in the skies since the advent of powered flight.

And chemtrailers don't take any initiative to prove their cause either. If something was being sprayed, it would be all over every single thing outside. And because of that, any single thing outside can be swabbed and tested in the lab. There are things that can be done to prove if "they" really are spraying anything, but nobody is doing anything to prove it.

Since you admitted you can't prove it, how about you all stop with the "chemtrail" disinformation and perpetuating the "chemtrail" HOAX? All it has amounted to is fear-mongering. And last time I checked, terrorists use fear to perpetuate their cause.

There is also logic flaws with the chemtrail theory anyway.. for instance, these chemicals are supposedly being sprayed everywhere, for what reason? they seem to be unable to agree on why but I hear poisoning mentioned a lot.. or mind control.. lets not forget the leaders of the country breathe the same air.. so do the men and women of the airforce and armed services in general.. they all have families.. it makes no logical sense to spray everyone including yourself.. ok haarp? I hear that mentioned too .. if it were haarp related why would they spray everywhere all the time and not just the affected areas? .. same if you say it's blue beam related..

None of it makes sense.. none of it has ever made sense.. you can never get a rational bit of reason to explain it clear through on how it would make any sense whatsoever.. because there's no truth behind it for it to NEED to make sense..

I would be interested in taking it to the debate forum.

So I think "chemmies" should pick a person to argue their belief and put forth their evidence.

The "debunkers" do the same.

I'll put my name in, but there are probably better to argue the evidence than me, depending on who else is interested.

Thoughts?

Originally posted by GringoViejo
I would be interested in taking it to the debate forum.

So I think "chemmies" should pick a person to argue their belief and put forth their evidence.

The "debunkers" do the same.

I'll put my name in, but there are probably better to argue the evidence than me, depending on who else is interested.

Thoughts?

Oh i would love to debate them. Whether its online, in person or on a radio program. Unfortunately for them, my undergrad degree involved chemistry, geology and biology, I work as a professional pilot, and I have flown in multiple cloud seeding/atmospheric research projects.

what i've never heard is what exactly is a "chemtrail" made of.

is it a catch all word?

if it's just exaust from jet engines then i believe it.



if it is a sinister plot to kill us off, then it's a major fail.

Originally posted by fooks
what i've never heard is what exactly is a "chemtrail" made of.

is it a catch all word?

if it's just exaust from jet engines then i believe it.

if it is a sinister plot to kill us off, then it's a major fail.

Dont worry, they cant even decide what it is or what it is for themselves. you can ask 10 different chemtrailers and you will get 10 different answers.

This would be my first post on chemtrails and I'm a believer.

I spent some time at the cottage this week, wed&thur, and witnessed a scene I have seen play out over and over again for years now. On thursday afternoon two planes making X marks in the sky which spread out into cloud cover in a matter of hours. These planes have the ability to turn off the trails obviously since they will make 2-3 X's in a large portion of sky and then are gone back to the city without a trail to be seen in the sky. A blue sky forecast turns to cloud cover and rain.

Its been raining since friday night.

I simply cannot deny what I have seen with my own eyes for years now.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
This would be my first post on chemtrails and I'm a believer.

I spent some time at the cottage this week, wed&thur, and witnessed a scene I have seen play out over and over again for years now. On thursday afternoon two planes making X marks in the sky which spread out into cloud cover in a matter of hours. These planes have the ability to turn off the trails obviously since they will make 2-3 X's in a large portion of sky and then are gone back to the city without a trail to be seen in the sky. A blue sky forecast turns to cloud cover and rain.

Its been raining since friday night.

I simply cannot deny what I have seen with my own eyes for years now.

Reminds me of yesterday, when I cut the grass, and then it rained 5 hours later! I saw that with my own eyes also!! I may have accidentally done an x in the yard with the mower at some point.

reply to post by firepilot


You can laugh all you want, I know what I and hundreds of others have witnessed for years now. I have no passion for this debate because as far as i'm concerned I might aswell argue whether water is wet or not. Until you personally witness it you have squat to say about it.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
reply to post by firepilot

 

You can laugh all you want, I know what I and hundreds of others have witnessed for years now. I have no passion for this debate because as far as i'm concerned I might aswell argue whether water is wet or not. Until you personally witness it you have squat to say about it.

Because nothing you witnessed, is unexplainable.

How do airplanes paths crossing, mean spraying? so what if two contrails intersect, can you explain how that means spraying?

Would you prefer that air traffic control rules were changed so that only one aircraft at a time could be overhead?

Ever considered that before a weather system arrives, its often preceded by increased upper air moisture?

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


See, this is your first fallacy....and, it stems from an ignorance of the reality of aviation:

On thursday afternoon two planes making X marks in the sky which spread out into cloud cover in a matter of hours.

You have only a misconception that it was "two planes". You saw the results of many airplanes passing overhead, from "Point A to Point B", as is the normal routine for air travel nowadays. All on different intersecting routes and headings, and making contrails.

The fact that it rained, later?? THAT is the proof that the contrails formed []because upper level conditions were right for them to form...as also evidenced by the cirrus that developed as well, ALL as precursor to the incoming weather systems that caused the rain.

The contrails are like a "canary in the mineshaft", if you want to forecast rain in future. Not 100% accurate of course, since no weather forecasting is, really.

What so many people need is a much better education into meteorology,and the science of weather forecasting. Actually, amateurs have been doing it for centuries....forecasting weather. Especially mariners!

Time to dust off this video, it is instructional (geared for the casual boater hobbyist)....sorry, the narrator may be a bit dry (pun), but he does know what he's talking about:

Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
reply to post by firepilot

 

You can laugh all you want, I know what I and hundreds of others have witnessed for years now. I have no passion for this debate because as far as i'm concerned I might aswell argue whether water is wet or not. Until you personally witness it you have squat to say about it.

Because nothing you witnessed, is unexplainable.

How do airplanes paths crossing, mean spraying? so what if two contrails intersect, can you explain how that means spraying?

Would you prefer that air traffic control rules were changed so that only one aircraft at a time could be overhead?

Ever considered that before a weather system arrives, its often preceded by increased upper air moisture?

So is it just coincidence every time we see the sky marked with criss-crossed trails it turns cloudy and rains when the forecast was for sunny blue skies? These are not random planes crossing paths but a pair working in unison. 30 minutes and their gone without any other mark but the criss-crosses left behind which, in a matter of hours, cloud over the whole area. This is cottage country, there are no jetliners flying over. The only planes within a 100km are small bush/pleasure craft. These planes take off from the city, fly whats a 2 hour drive for me, make their marks and are gone.