Stephen Hawking: 'There is no heaven; it's a fairy story'

Originally posted by DomCheetham
I think that the universe is alive and the evidence for that theory is that the earth is teaming with life and that came into being by guess who.

So is there and after life, sure. Do you remember anything without your biological memory. No!

Can you point to me the scientific evidence and proof of soul NOT having the capacity to store memory?

What if the soul is like a table or piece of furniture that gets marked with wear and tear, good and bad and memory becomes irrelevant until it is reinserted into the body and memory is restored by divine power? The afterlife can still work using that theory.

Steve has his thoughts and I have mine,
I only wish BOTH camps would take their tents down and finally meld.

It would be nice to see what ALL knowledge brought forth once United rather than remaining in their safe opponent modes where all rooted stagnant positions are defended with stale arguments.

Steven is entitled to his opinion and beliefs, but I think he is very arrogant making this claim, since this age old claim made by many cannot be proven, nor dis-proven.

Personally I am an agnostic, because of the many things that have happen to me personally throughout my life.

Something metaphysical cannot be proven to others via physical words or actions, it must be experienced by each individual.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by ZforZionism

Originally posted by subby
Also, if God is omniscient, prayers are meaningless.

May be it is the acknowledgement he is after and not prayers to fill in his missing information?

I think the issue is acknowledgement and belief in God rather than keeping him updated via twitter or prayer.

You just gave me an idea.

Twitprayer...send god your daily prayers in 255 characters or less...hmm...
The Vatican really needs to make this app

On a serious note:

I'm still waiting for your scientific evidence that the soul cannot store memories...

Originally posted by Realtruth
Steven is entitled to his opinion and beliefs, but I think he is very arrogant making this claim, since this age old claim made by many cannot be proven, nor dis-proven.

Personally I am an agnostic, because of the many things that have happen to me personally throughout my life.

Something metaphysical cannot be proven to others via physical words or actions, it must be experienced by each individual.

edit on 16-5-2011 by Realtruth because: (no reason given)

The other problem is that science has given credence to metaphysical phenomena as it suits them. Perhaps if they invested their time and effort they may be able to devise technology to do the same for other unknowns.

Originally posted by ZforZionism

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by ZforZionism

Originally posted by subby
Also, if God is omniscient, prayers are meaningless.

May be it is the acknowledgement he is after and not prayers to fill in his missing information?

I think the issue is acknowledgement and belief in God rather than keeping him updated via twitter or prayer.

You just gave me an idea.

Twitprayer...send god your daily prayers in 255 characters or less...hmm...
The Vatican really needs to make this app

On a serious note:

I'm still waiting for your scientific evidence that the soul cannot store memories...

Not following. Who said it couldn't? I certainly didn't

I understand you have reading comprehension issues, else you would have read this repeatedly before....I never stated such a thing, You are being intentionally deceptive and I think its about time an admin gets involved in this false information your spreading about a member.

If you study logic, you know if "A" then "B".

We know infinity exists (A), hence, nothing dies (B). They cannot exist apart.

With that, we know we are infinite and because in an infinite universe nothing can die, we know there must be an afterlife. Whether or not it is heaven, that is our making.

When you come upon a "Hawking" and you believe in an Infinite God, be patient.

When you study and prove gifted scientists and become one yourself; Kant, Hawking, Sagan, etc. and others change the curriculum (Creationists) because they believe in a Infinite God, be patient.

Why?

They are One in the same. There can be no science without the one infinite God and there cannot be the one infinite God without science.

Proof in a Parable:

There is a terrible flood coming, a man stays in his home after evacuation because he is devout. God will not let him die and will save his house. The flood crests and he has to go to his roof, but things are bad. People in a row boat come by and they offer him a seat. He says "No! God will help me!"

As he watches shivering as the crest continues a big boat with Army Corp of Engineers comes by and bullhorns him to get on the boat, but he refuses. "God is coming for me" he shouts.

Finally, a helicopter hovers to send down an EMT and he yells, "No! I am fine...God is coming to save me."

All is quiet, it is the end of the crest and our hero for God, dies. He gets to the Pearly Gates and God ushers him in. At this point, our hero is p*ssed and says, "God, why didn't you save me from the flood?".

God says, "I sent you my angels in a row boat, I sent you more angels in a Army Core of Engineer's boat and then I sent you my angels in an EMT helicopter...what more could I have done for you my child?"

reply to post by spacedonk


If Steven Hawkings thinks fear is the cause for people to believe in afterlife, I am sure being a scientist he would have done some extensive experiments in quantum mechanics and have enough data to support his claim. Or atleast some of his biologist/neurologist/psychologist friends would have done those experiments and told him that they found that out.
Seriously, both belief/disbelief in karma can be based out fear and belief in one thing is a kind of disbelief in something else ( belief in creator vs belief in chance)

We can understand Steven Hawking's belief (everything is a chance) because it makes his physical condition more digestable. Belief in higher power/after life would only make him worse (then, one has to root-cause his suffering).
For some people fear of death may definitely be the cause of faith. But for few their earthly suffering or interests that are counter to religous views may make them disbelieve the same thing.
Somebody's belief does not alter higher realities in anyway.

Quote from sitchin: " i like to think Mr Hawkins, is not actually telling us anything ..just sitting in his super buggy, while a couple of super nerd hackers have a laugh commanding his computer voice aid system..it would explain his frustrated expression George bush also had some of this technology implanted in his a$$ hole"

I like to think that people like you will someday "Grow-up", and/or wisen up,
and maybe, just maybe, it will happen. Wishing you a speedy paralysis so that you can "Just sit in your "Super Buggy" and enjoy ALL the good times that come with being paralized, it's a real hoot!

reply to post by sitchin

Incidently, amusing sidenote
am I the only one that see's a balrog in the sun behind Hawkings?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ddbd586fc5f4.jpg[/atsimg]
(glowing 2 eyes and horns looking over his seat)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9a639371321b.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by Tephra
If religion is going to persist, I think they're going to need to have a revolution, a new era bible. Just like how the bible plagiarized and revamped all the old fairytales from religions past. This new fairy tale will have to modernize it.


Ever heard of the Boomer Bible? I am a huge fan, and think I could totally start a church based on it's words! LOL

Originally posted by SaturnFX
The universe was created by a peanut wearing a tophat and cane.

There is no proof that it wasn't, therefore it probably was.

Sir, if you are looking for 'proofs' I suggest you take a look at some fundamental aspects of nature; that is to say; the appearance of math and more specifically the Golden Ratio - to me, it is indicative of a Programmer, at the very least creates the shadows of a Larger Mind somewhere out there, in the vastness of existence. Not only this, but further consider the fractal/holographic nature of reality - atoms are empty - light photons and binary electrons mimic each other - it is one microcosm to the next - could there be such stupendous order given to such an immense space without conscious thought? Do you live in a mess, or do you clean your room?

Originally posted by secretagentwomyn
Ever heard of the Boomer Bible? I am a huge fan, and think I could totally start a church based on it's words! LOL

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dcbcf89b21dd.jpg[/atsimg]
Sorry man, I cannot accept this guy as the messiah

Originally posted by purplemonkeydishwasher

Originally posted by SaturnFX
The universe was created by a peanut wearing a tophat and cane.

There is no proof that it wasn't, therefore it probably was.

Sir, if you are looking for 'proofs' I suggest you take a look at some fundamental aspects of nature; that is to say; the appearance of math and more specifically the Golden Ratio - to me, it is indicative of a Programmer, at the very least creates the shadows of a Larger Mind somewhere out there, in the vastness of existence. Not only this, but further consider the fractal/holographic nature of reality - atoms are empty - light photons and binary electrons mimic each other - it is one microcosm to the next - could there be such stupendous order given to such an immense space without conscious thought? Do you live in a mess, or do you clean your room?

Thats a different argument entirely
(I wonder if ripples on a pond think they are alive for the moment they exist). But anyhow, the massless atomic hypothesis is just that...a hypothesis
and the argument there is not a pro-god argument, but rather a we don't exist argument if anything...but its all just wild hypothesis anyhow.

My area is cluttery.

Oh dear. As much as i respect Stephen Hawking for his brilliance in the field of cosmology, he is entering deep waters when debating religion. How does he know God/Supreme Being does NOT exist? Surely he must know that the Universe, heck even a snowflake has so many things going on it cant have been all by accident. SOMETHING has to be responisble for it all. I dont think our Human Brian is enough to comprehend the magnitude of it all. We just are not physically from a brain size point of view able or spirtually advanced enough to consider the possibilities.

As to Stephen Hawking himself it is natural given his age and condition to have doubts and fears as the inevitable draws closer and closer. I dont say that in a horrid way, because let's face it we ALL have faced the fear of what if there is nothing beyond death at some point in our lives. Anyone who says they dont is a damned liar! I feared it greatly, i still fear the physical process of death per se but having watched my Mother die i no longer fear the what if/if not stage of death. I just accept whatever will be will be. Hopefully when it is my turn to shed the mortal coil i hope it will be in my sleep and not a horrid death as such. I would rather not know anything about it.

But as others have said before i dont think Stephen Hawking has any right to dictacte as gospel that there is no heaven. He has not been there, he has not come back from the dead, so where is the proof! As a scientist he should know that if you are gonna say something as if it is fact he needs to provide empirical evidence. Apart from Lazarus noone else on this planet has defintive proof one way or another, and that includes Mr Hawkings himself.

Originally posted by SaturnFX


Thats a different argument entirely
(I wonder if ripples on a pond think they are alive for the moment they exist). But anyhow, the massless atomic hypothesis is just that...a hypothesis
and the argument there is not a pro-god argument, but rather a we don't exist argument if anything...but its all just wild hypothesis anyhow.

My area is cluttery.

Well, water has indeed shown that it is able to be imprinted with memory, from what I can recall - Dr. Emoto's research has been rather astounding in that respect. Although in terms of consciousness, I believe dimethyltriptamine, seratonin and tryptophan are required as the building blocks of consciousness, - but - perhaps that is neither here nor there.

I will take a look back at these posts to see what I've missed - I have this tendency to browse posts for gists.

edit to add: begrudgingly, my area is slightly cluttered as well - although there is a girl coming over; and that won't stand for long. lol

I wonder if God makes Jesus clean his room?

reply to post by spacedonk


Well, it's simple. He's a liar. Just because the world tells me he's smart....doesn't mean he knows everything about life and the after-life. He doesn't know more than GOD. Who am I going to believe, the word of GOD or an android?

There have been many revived "dead" people who had seen things that indicate a form of existence that they experienced outside the physical body. That said - I suspect there may still be no heaven in terms of a vast container where souls reside with a named God forever more. I do suspect that a soul reaches heaven-state when it is unafraid to die, knows that life everlasting in the form of soul resurrection through re-birth and ongoing experiences is what heaven really is.

We have to determine if "heaven" is death followed by your next soul placement choice. Now, this could backfire. If we understand that we are "already in heaven", we break the rules of heaven. You're not supposed to know you are in heaven - you are supposed to strive to live better lives to reach the heaven-state. If we all knew these issues, people would be suicidal trying to get started with their next lives as quickly as possible because we all have an issue with greed and entitlement. We can't want to improve our state - we have to earn it. We all know people who go to church to "get" into heaven but are they really earning it?

I can definitely live with this idea of heaven being repetitive re-birth and soul growth. And, science could indeed find success in interviewing those who have detailed childhood past-live rememberances that can be traced through historical records to be true events.

What does Hawking know? . . . He better watch his mouth, the lord is going to put some more sport on his butt in the hearafter. He already is being punished with that disease, so he aught to behave and shut the hell up or he will get a bigger ass-whipping later!

Good thing Dr. Hawking isn't the end-all, be-all container of knowledge of everything that is and isn't.

I have tons of respect and even a bit of awe for him, but just because he, or Richard Dawkins, or Epicurus, or whatever else mortal being says, nobody knows until we die. Stating that something absolutely "is" or "isn't" without absolutely knowing is the height of egoism. But I guess even he has to have a security blanket.

/TOA