Stephen Hawking: 'There is no heaven; it's a fairy story'

You know that old saying, opinions are like...

Surely people can see the difference between and person's belief (their own conclusion) made through analysis and research, and that of fact. It goes either way towards believers and non believers alike. The fact is NO ONE knows for sure (subjective experience notwithstanding). IQ level doesn't always mean total knowledge.

Originally posted by subby
Angry Christians are angry.

For those of you saying that he has no scientific data to back up his statements, I believe he is reflecting on the amassed knowledge of our species and not one specific equation. I'm not here to argue with Christians though, it's boring and predictable.

Well, I am not a christian by any stretch...

But what he said is moronic.

There is no afterlife...he made a statement posing as fact, but provides not a single shred of evidence beyond his opinion.
Its one thing to state that he doesn't believe, that there is no evidence, that its illogical, unnecessary, etc...however, he didn't state it that way.
he claimed an absoluteist position and gives no proof to solidify his claim...its very unscientific and, I would say, a religious standpoint.

I am not a fan of religion, therefore his statement is nonsense and he discredits himself with such statements.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I hate to state the obvious here, but the burden of proof rests with those claiming something does exist.

Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms
The fact is NO ONE knows for sure (subjective experience notwithstanding).

Well, Some may know, they have just yet been unable to prove it.
There is evidence, sure, but no proof...

Subjectively, I know ghosts exist
Objectively, I believe they exist based on my experiences.

Objectively, steven has no bloody clue about anything he stated about his subjective opinion as objective fact.

The old guy is right. At least somebody is not afraid to say that God does not exist. In principle, we can say that we live in times of darkness, but with the promise of a better future. One day we will be able to transfer our consciousness into a computer or into a new body. Then we will achieve a status of a true God...

...or a Cylon

The man is a genius, but it seems to me that he has been passing on theories as facts lately. The two main ones are very popular in our mainstream lives and gets lots of attention.

Theory 1. There are many worlds with life on them.

How does he know? Is it likely? Of course, but you can't state things as fact without any evidence and just because it has a high probablility doesn't qualify as evidence.

Theory 2. There isn't a God or Heaven.

As far as I know the only people who can verify this as a fact or not is the dead and they're not speaking right now. He may believe that this is true, but his beliefs do not make it a fact.

I think he has gotten a taste for the limelight and his ego is running his mouth.

Originally posted by subby
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I hate to state the obvious here, but the burden of proof rests with those claiming something does exist.

The burden of proof rests with those claiming something, period.

He -claims- there is no afterlife...he made the claim
Any atheist worth his salt knows better than to say that.
since he stated the claim, he must provide the evidence...thats how it works.

I do not believe in a god. there is no evidence to suggest that. that is not a claim, that is a starting point.

There is no god, I know because my brain is magical and I have proof of no deitys..that is a claim and essencially what he said

reply to post by Epiphron


Who's to say dreams aren't as real as reality? Who's to say the dream world isn't more real than this world, this is just the one we're more attached too?

Originally posted by TravisT

Originally posted by ZforZionism
Britain's most 'eminent' scientist says there is no heaven or life after death!

Well, I for one would be eager to see his scientific research and proof that shows that God doesn't exist and there is no heaven. He IS BRITAIN'S MOST EMINENT scientist so there is no way he would make such a claim without having scientific evidence and proof.

So let's see he scientific evidence and proof..what?....he doesn't HAVE any?....so how can he make such a claim...

Britain's most 'eminent' scientist I think not, Britain's most non-scientific opinionated trash? I THINK SO.

How can a scientific mind degenerate to such nonsense?

It's not nonsense, he's just working with everything we know of. Let's break it down in a simple form, shall we:

The only reason why we are able to perceive anything, is due to our brain. The way you process time(past, present, and future), is due to your brain. Time is just a measurement of events - events which we record with our brain. The only way we have thoughts, a sense of self, or a personality in general, is due to your brain. All of your memories are stored and processed in your brain.

Now, once you die, your brain deteriorates, and all of your thoughts, memories, personality, EVERYTHING, is now gone. If you have no way to process memories, time, or thought, then how are you able to go to heaven or hell? Why would it matter what you did here on earth? If your brain is gone, and has no sense of anything you ever did, then how do you know where to go in an afterlife? All of those are recorded with your brain.

If you take the memory out of your computer, and crush it up and destroy it, your computer doesn't have that memory anymore. The same with your body. And if there is such a thing as a "soul", then it has no memory of what you did in your past, without your brain(memory).

YOU make the assumption that memories are only contained within the brain. There are many scientific reports which show that people with transplants inherit some of the donor patients memory ? how is that possible?

Can you show me the scientific evidence to show the Soul does not have a memory of what was done in the past? Or are you talking in the same fashion as Britain's most EMINENT scientist?

Don't try to argue with me that there is no afterlife using opinions because I've heard them all already.

This thread is about a Scientist and using the scientific method (which was clearly absent). You can save the unsubstantiated opinions for your clergy.

011 @ 11:51 PM this post well...i guess we should turn off his machine then......

reply to post by thePharaoh


Hawking is a media created false idol of science. He hasn't received a Nobel Prize in physics, and not likely to receive one in the near future. His theory doesn’t explain anything measurable, which is the key to achieve an excellence in physics. I think his achievement has been greatly exaggerated. On the other hand, Brian Josephson who is a Nobel Prize winner in physics from Britain has in depth appreciation of the spiritual world. I don't normally call someone lightly, but in case of Hawking, I think he is a crook. History will prove him as such.

Originally posted by 6205LH
The old guy is right. At least somebody is not afraid to say that God does not exist. In principle, we can say that we live in times of darkness, but with the promise of a better future. One day we will be able to transfer our consciousness into a computer or into a new body. Then we will achieve a status of a true God...

...or a Cylon

How do you know God does not exist?

I don't want to hear about how common sense or anything like that.

reply to post by spacedonk


What if he is half right, like I believe. The soul dies at death and nothing survives, BUT God has the ability to recreate that soul and restore it in the future back to the earth and not to heaven. Until then, hawkings is right when we die we have ceased to exist. At least that is what reading the bible has taught me.

Ecclesiastes 9:5a

For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing

John 5: 28 & 29

Don’t be so surprised! Indeed, the time is coming when all the dead in their graves will hear the voice of God’s Son, 29and they will rise again. Those who have done good will rise to experience eternal life, and those who have continued in evil will rise to experience judgment.

This is in the future, and going to take place on this earth, not heaven.

Originally posted by 6205LH
The old guy is right. At least somebody is not afraid to say that God does not exist. In principle, we can say that we live in times of darkness, but with the promise of a better future. One day we will be able to transfer our consciousness into a computer or into a new body. Then we will achieve a status of a true God...

...or a Cylon

Maybe your right
ok, fine...
God does not exist
Neither does quarks...after all, I have never seen one, nor any scientist.

You know what else does not exist matter of factly? Anything we have yet to uncover...it simply does not exist. We know everything and science has now finally hit a dead end after knowing every single force of nature in the universe. I state this in concrete and with knowledge that even in a million years, there will be absolutely nothing ever uncovered to put egg on my face. yep

Ya...thats rational.

I am a science guy, and I am also an honest doubter (Although I certainly hope the light doesn't just "turn off") who has a healthy amount of skepticism, but am open minded.

What amazes me about science is that things like "extra dimensions, string theory, extra universes and dimensions, time dilation, quantum flux, double slit experiment" are all very very strange but deemed credible, but things like God, spirits, near death experiences are regarded as mythical.

I don't understand the definitive statements on either side in the absence of proof. I can understand believeing and faith, but not definitive statements.

The bottom line is, our universe is extraordinary, and incredibly unlikely given the odds of all things being right.

Then we also have to consider that we still don't know how life began, or more philosophically, why? Why would a random, undriven and extremely unlikely universe generate incredibly complex creatures that are self-aware of their own demise. It IS incredibly pointless if that is the case.

Originally posted by spacedonk

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
But can he prove it? Of course not. With theories like the Multiverse and parallel universes who's to say that there is no heaven? What if heaven is another planet, perhaps the planet that our "creators" come from? None of it can ever be proven unless motherships start appearing over major cities and they tell us the truth about our origins.

and even then we wouldnt believe them and call conspiracy

))

Agreed!

reply to post by spacedonk


A statement like this from Stephen Hawking is no more or no less valid as a statement of "There is a heaven; it's a paradise" coming from the Pope.

Neither have proof...both are statements of FAITH.


Yes...his statement relies on faith...because he has no evidence. So to make a claim such as he is...he relies on faith.

Originally posted by Becoming
Theory 1. There are many worlds with life on them.

I think he is just going with statistics on them...should we find a empty universe...and no matter how far we explore in any direction, we find that earth is the only place where life exists, I will become a full zealot believer...such a outcome could only be the work of a deity. however, yes, your right...just because the hypothesis has a mountain of logic and reason behind it does not make it fact...just makes it obvious.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
What if heaven is another planet, perhaps the planet that our "creators" come from? None of it can ever be proven unless motherships start appearing over major cities and they tell us the truth about our origins.

Funny you should mention that:
Heaven is a planet

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by IntegratedInstigator
While reading your post, I had the notion that this type of mindset might also cause the value of a life to plummet. It would allow for killing because now all we are is a biological body. We are no longer important, or have a purpose, etc. Im having a hard time putting this into words since I dont agree with it, but I believe it is a possiblility.

Instead of being a utopia, I could see situations where being purely biological removes a lot of motivation and drive for some. For others it makes it easier to kill humans, viewing them now as merely animals, nothing special, you know?

You could of course think that.
of course it flys in the face of facts considering Secular countrys have a lower crime rate than religious countrys.
So ya...you can think that secular countrys will turn to cannibalism, however, facts fly against the reasoning.

Even in prison systems, atheists are disproportunately absent in the prison system (0.21% of inmates are classified as atheist whereas atheists in america make up 8-16%).

So, on micro and macro scales, atheist/secular lifestyles = peaceful.

Atheism is for people whom know how to be a good person without having invisible boogiemen watching them. We don't require a deity to watch our every move in order to do what is right.

And clearly, in regards to crime, the ones that do tend to do their immoral things anyhow.

You make a great point, but could it be that religious people, or at least people that believe in a God of some sort, vastly outnumber atheists not only in the U.S. but worldwide? Naturally, there would be a very small percentage in the prison population, as well as other areas of society. I'm not claiming to know who is right or wrong, but the numbers are what they are.

Originally posted by onequestion
So who cares?

No seriously though, if we are not spiritual entities, then why do most of us discuss and think spiritually?

How is it that i can use some form of a drug and the entire world around me changes, yet this is considered not real?

Have you contemplated what this means to your experience of reality and how so it can be changed?

edit on 15-5-2011 by onequestion because: (no reason given)

Just your perception changes not the entire world. That's why it's not real. Or the rest of us would see it also.