Pa. school gives kids sandwiches as punishment after hot meals go unappreciated

Originally posted by RSF77
I hate it because it sounds like they did it out of spite, and it serves no purpose in teaching them.

Sounds like they're learning...

Better behaved
Since doling out sandwiches, an administrator said he has seen an improvement in student behavior, the newspaper reported.

Camp Curtain students will be able to get back their chicken nuggets or meatball subs with dip on Monday.

Source

I see no problem with this at all. If the rule is that you clean up after yourself at lunch and they don't, the punishment doesn't have to be announced or explained ahead of time. They were disrespectful of basic rules of social living (clean up after yourself) and they were punished and it worked.

That's a perfect way to use punishment, in my opinion.

Is there some rule or contract that the school is obligated to provide a hot lunch everyday for the students?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Yea, maybe your right and it did work. I just don't think it's a valid punishment, they made the mess I say make them clean it up. Perhaps that was a good way to accomplish this after all, I just wouldn't have done it.

reply to post by sm0k3


How do you behave around authority figures? If someone with perceived power over you told you to do something that you didnt like, would you do it? What if it was something that you really didnt like? We train children early on that if someone has authority over you, you are supposed to defer to them. You arent a good person if you dont follow the rules. Reminds me of Milgrams shock experiment. Imagine what some of us might do just because someone said we HAD to do it.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by kro32
If my kid misbehaves he get's sent to his room with no dinner. I'm not about to let any kid walk over me and think they can get away with whatever they want...

Kudos to this school

See, I have never understood the whole concept "go to bed without dinner." I mean, one of the most important things for a developing person/kid is NOURISHMENT. While i see it as sort of "punishment" (after all, who can go to sleep when one is hungry?), the negatives are just far too powerful for me to see this as justifiable. Kids need food because they are developing, and they also need a good night's rest for these same reasons. Denying them this is, IMO, just plain wrong, and could, under certain circumstances, be considered neglect--even if they get regular meals.

reply to post by seraphnb


When i was in middle school, (late 80s/early 90s), those kids who misbehaved, instead of getting detention, also got "cold meals." On top of that, during the entire lunch period, they had to stay in a classroom until the last 5-10 minutes of the lunch period, and then that is ALL the time they had to eat. If they didn't finished, lunch staff or teachers would take your tray away and make you go back to class. That is NOT right.

Of course, this is the same school system that apparently allowed, on buses that were so full, kids to stand during the route, and if the driver was peeved because kids wouldn't shut up they would SLAM on the brake, sending kids flying onto the floor.

I kid you not.

If that happened now, talk about law suits.

Back to the OP, i too was misled by the title. They were not starved, nor were they denied food, they were simply denied "hot meals." While they might not get the supposed well-balanced meal from a cold sandwich, at least they did get to eat something, so i say it's a far cry from foul, and quite misleading. No different than going on a "field trip" and having sack lunches, IMO.

This, however, is crossing the line: Chic ago School Bans Homemade lunches, from this ATS thread.

Originally posted by irsuccubus
reply to post by sm0k3

 

How do you behave around authority figures? If someone with perceived power over you told you to do something that you didnt like, would you do it? What if it was something that you really didnt like? We train children early on that if someone has authority over you, you are supposed to defer to them. You arent a good person if you dont follow the rules. Reminds me of Milgrams shock experiment. Imagine what some of us might do just because someone said we HAD to do it.

www.youtube.com...

The problem with that is most people don't know their own rights, if a cop violates my rights I sure as hell wont take it lying down... I may comply due to the fact that the officer is an unchecked aggressor with a gun, but I will sure as hell sue the hell out of them for it... choose your battles wisely young padawan

Edit to add:

I believe the only person who should be able to physically discipline a child are the child's parents, but that means within reason... a paddle or a belt works nicely and leaves a little sting for them to think about...

So they did not provide hot lunches to the children for lunches, but hot meals. And this is wrong why? Millions of children bring their lunches to school, and chances are those lunches are cold, and the students are eating and surviving on such. In short the school is trying to teach the children a lesson, be it correct or incorrect, that misbehaviour does not pay, there are consequences to their actions. When I went to school, if we left the lunchroom a mess, then everyone there would have to stay after school and clean it up. Start a food fight, and well, it was clean it spotless and be suspended for 3 days. So the children are learning not to make a mess, and if they see their friends breaking the rules, maybe stopping them to not let them make that mistake.

reply to post by Liquesence


Well said. And they got sandwiches in place of a hot substitute, but I believe the taking away of heat is the only big difference here:

The official says the lunches still include fruit and vegetables.

www.washingtonpost.com... tml

They took the nourishment value into consideration. Its starting to look like a lack of variety in the menu for a week rather then a punishment lol.

reply to post by sm0k3


Rights are an arbitrary concept that are in no way written in stone. If they were, they couldnt be taken away. There are plenty of cops willing to laugh in your face once you start talking about rights. Hell, maybe even rough you up a bit. Because they know if it came down to a court of law...its you getting screwed, not them. You have no rights, only privileges. And thats just not enough to make me fall in line. I got into trouble in school A LOT. I couldnt make myself care what they were saying and the bull-ish was just too transparent. Did that make me a bad person...spoiled? not at all. I just didnt like being condescended to and made to run in circles by adults on a power trip. People forget that kids are just adults warming the bench. The lessons that they learn in school will carry over into adulthood for good or ill. And in this case the lesson is screwing with someones head will ultimately achieve your ends.

Originally posted by irsuccubus
reply to post by sm0k3

 

Rights are an arbitrary concept that are in no way written in stone. If they were, they couldnt be taken away. There are plenty of cops willing to laugh in your face once you start talking about rights. Hell, maybe even rough you up a bit. Because they know if it came down to a court of law...its you getting screwed, not them. You have no rights, only privileges. And thats just not enough to make me fall in line. I got into trouble in school A LOT. I couldnt make myself care what they were saying and the bull-ish was just too transparent. Did that make me a bad person...spoiled? not at all. I just didnt like being condescended to and made to run in circles by adults on a power trip. People forget that kids are just adults warming the bench. The lessons that they learn in school will carry over into adulthood for good or ill. And in this case the lesson is screwing with someones head will ultimately achieve your ends.

AND THAT IS WHY WE HAVE NO RIGHTS! People laying down and letting it happen.... And I never said I would fight with the cop, I would wait for my time in court, The more you argue with the cop, the less chance you have of convincing a judge you were violated... best precaution is not doing anything illegal to begin with... but then again were back to square one! how to punish and make it stick..... If you were a good parent, your child wouldn't be in a situation that a cop can take advantage of... (unless the cop is completely corrupt, in that case everyone is screwed, innocent or not..)

I couldnt make myself care what they were saying and the bull-ish was just too transparent

because you were too pissed of to care, if someone tanned your hide you would think otherwise.

What a non-issue...

Anyone that thinks eating a cold sandwich is some kind of torture
(or even punishment) is an idiot.

Grown a spine, crying about this is disgusting.

Yea, not as extreme as I thought it would be, when I read the title. I thought this was going to be a rather sobering horror-story. Alas..

However, it would be a problem if they did this consistently, on an every-other day basis, and still getting fully funded/supplied for hot lunches that they are not serving. Obviously this wouldn't happen though... Well who knows these days..

Please, sir, I want some more.

If a cold sandwhich is cruel and unusual punishment then does that mean that everyone who pays for a subway, firehouse or baldinos sub is a masochistic?

I punish myself severly at work everday with a bologna sandwhich. I could throw it in the microwave and nuke it for 30 seconds, but I enjoy the pain and humiliation of eating it cold.

reply to post by sm0k3


lol...I got smacked up as a kid...plenty....didnt do a thing other than let me know that punching the crap out of someone can sometimes help you get your way. Sometimes it cant. I dont shrink back from pain, never did. Im odd like that. And therein lies the problem with using such tactics. What if the pain is something that the person can deal with? What then? Chop off a limb? I didnt care because I was an autodidact from early on and much of their information conflicted. I didnt care because the so-called teachers were more like parrots of standardized text than true sources of wisdom and instruction. And because of that I did not respect the system. I knew that I wasnt there to be enriched but instead conditioned to fall in line. Many kids become aware of this fact and they rebel. Im not talking about bullies or little sh**sniffers who dont know how to act like human beings. I dont spank my kids. I dont have to. That doesnt mean I am a sucker. I just know what works and what doesnt. They are still excellent students and extremely well behaved. A bit eccentric like their mother...but thats not so bad.

As mentioned earlier the vast majority of student problems stem from the PARENTS, lack of discipline, care, love, etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by seraphnb


A seasoned writer at the National Enquirer couldn't have come up with a better misleading headline. Kudos.

There are billions of children in this world who would love cold sammies to eat. They would just love to eat.

There is nothing wrong with this consequence.

I didn't get lunch when I was in many of those grades at all, and for many of them I was literally severely malnurished because I only ate a couple of times a week.

The idea that a cold sandwich is a form of punishment is literally laughable.

Originally posted by irsuccubus
reply to post by sm0k3

 

lol...I got smacked up as a kid...plenty....didnt do a thing other than let me know that punching the crap out of someone can sometimes help you get your way. Sometimes it cant. I dont shrink back from pain, never did. Im odd like that. And therein lies the problem with using such tactics. What if the pain is something that the person can deal with? What then? Chop off a limb? I didnt care because I was an autodidact from early on and much of their information conflicted. I didnt care because the so-called teachers were more like parrots of standardized text than true sources of wisdom and instruction. And because of that I did not respect the system. I knew that I wasnt there to be enriched but instead conditioned to fall in line. Many kids become aware of this fact and they rebel. Im not talking about bullies or little sh**sniffers who dont know how to act like human beings. I dont spank my kids. I dont have to. That doesnt mean I am a sucker. I just know what works and what doesnt. They are still excellent students and extremely well behaved. A bit eccentric like their mother...but thats not so bad.

edit on 13-5-2011 by irsuccubus because: (no reason given)

Let me start out by saying that im not saying you are wrong here! some kids just dont(or cant) understand why they are being punished, but that falls on the parents to teach their child why what they did was wrong. I don't believe that everything should be fixed with a paddle, but sometimes children dont think what you say matters, and they may need a little reaffirming that there will be consequences. When the child gets paddles it shouldn't be for the first offense or for anything minor, but it needs to be done. whats going to happen when they do something really bad because they know from experience that no one can hurt them? they go to jail and most likely will get a little physical confrontation with someone named Bubba..

It adds a little voice in their heads that says "is it worth it?"

Taking away the tv, computer or whatever fails to do anything when these forms of entertainment can be found everywhere.

I know from personal experience, me and my brother were raised completely different, I was paddled and spanked when I did things wrong, he had things taken away and time outs... guess who is only 16 with criminal record? (the cops prejudice towards him doesnt help, but thats another story).

You bring up good points, dont get me wrong.. but I have lived it..

reply to post by MJZoo


i have no idea how it works in the u.s., but in the u.k. i know i would be very angry if we paid for their school meals and they were denied them because of something other students did. i would proberbly be angry if it was something my child did. i believe in punishment i just do not believe in using food as the weapon.

most parents work and pay for their kids to have a school meal here in the u.k.
i would expect my child to get what i paid for, if i wanted them to have a sandwhich i would of sent them in with pack up and kept my money.