Guns or Ammo?

There is nothing wrong with having enough guns and ammo to arm yourself, and a squad of men, I mean, thats perfectly normal right? cover all your bases, long range bolt action heavy caliber for distance, and power, an AR carbine based platform for intermediate range, and support fire, then to the shotguns in the trenches for cqc, and of course the trusty side arm of choice.

reply to post by zestor


Ok understandable I just dont see the point of spending alot of money on .22 ammo. Its all accurate and all does about the same in ballistics, when it comes to larger calibers I am more picky

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


The same typical "oh my why do you yanks have guns" start off that turns into 9 pages of text on why we should or shouldnt have guns, Happens atleast what 3 times a week routinely?

reply to post by 4Starlight2Decay0


Sorry, Ive never seen one before.

In those threads, in your opinion what has been the best pro gun argument youve heard?

Living out in the woods I sometimes like to eat wild game or eradicate the wild hog population when they are becoming overly intrusive and destructive...The hogs are horrible to eat unless trapped when young and fed on grain and vegetables for a length of time sufficient to get the flavor of the carrion they eat from their systems,,, I have no desire to use a weapon on another human being and see firearms as a means of putting fresh meat on the table that hasn't been poisoned by GMO feed and antibiotics... If I have to shoot someone they, like the others I have had to shoot in the past, will be in need of eradication like wild hogs and they more than likely won't need to be fed vegetables and grain to cleanse them of the flavor of carrion... You are going to need to be resourceful to survive if bad things go down so you all might ought to learn how to butcher and prepare a carcass for eating and study human anatomy so you will know what parts you will find tasty after you have dressed out your kills... A well placed .22 LR hollow point round will take most any critter down with a direct shot to an eyeball and the mild report will not attract unwanted attention... If a coup de grace is required, a roofing hammer will yield excellent results and save a bullet for the next time an opportunity for fresh meat occurs...Bon Apetit

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Personal choice really, I dont think a responsible adult needs a reason to own a gun more than the fact that they want it. It's crazy I almost had to use a gun to protect my home today. At this point I need my guns.

This is brought up in several survival forums, and if you go off of the 2 is 1 and 1 is none, then you should have a couple rifles and a couple pistols that are the same...or atleast spare parts for your weapons...if you have that get ammo, because without ammo its an expensive club.
Some say have a pistol, rifle(bolt action Long range), shotgun, and an AK/AR for tactical use....

Think of this....how many guns can you carry with all your stuff and have enough ammo for them? What are you prepping for?
Hunting? martial law? riots? WW3? EOTWAWKI?
Once you get started prepping you need to prep for the most likely to happen to you...that is what you prep for first...then go from there.
Guns and ammo are great but what do you do to clean them? you need to maintain them, so that they work...how are your shooting and hunting skills? Have you taken any classes to help you shoot your new gun? Do you know your weapon? How to disassemble and assemble it and clean it? Correctly?
I ask these questions because many get a weapon and think " I am good now" and they instantly turn into billy the kid...
Just some food for thought.

1 air rifle rather than a .22. Gamo whisper is very quiet and keeps from scaring other small game when you have taken the first.

2 handguns-one high capacity modern version and one wheel gun, glock, beretta etc 9mm/40 and a .357/38
If you can afford one get the modern one first.

2 mid sized rifles. AK/AR types and extra mags. If you can afford just one get the AK for dependability.

2 long range game rifles. 30.06/308. If you can afford only one get .308

A selection of chamber adapters. if you selected the same size barrels as in .30 cal the bolt gun can now use all the other ammo.

Most people can't afford a lot of guns. in that case a glock/beretta for a pistol and a keltec sub2000 that uses both the same ammo and mags as the pistol.

You may have to leave most of them behind and go nomadic. In that case you need to have decided what goes in advance so you dont make mistakes.


Then when you have decided.....quality training and regular practice are the most important things of all. fine tuning scopes and irons in advance. Parts replacement and upgrades. Dont buy a used glock and fail to add all new springs etc.

Last, pray every day you never have to follow through.



And remember:

Now I don't know but I been told that it's hard to run with the weight of gold

On the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
Hey dude,

It disturbs me how casual you yanks are about guns and weapons.
Every American I know talks about how you need them for safety coz everyone else has them, If you take them away from everyone then no one has to worry.

After you say this they wil reply with "yeah but the bad guys wont give up their guns" and their probably right, they wouldnt but then you change the law so anyone caught with a gun gets sent off to jail and I imagine it would somewhat deter people.

If you dont grow up in a gun culture you dont think about having one and I think pro gun laws are actually counter productive as instead of feeling safe that you have a gun your in fact paranoid coz everyone else does as well.

With the fact that America has more shootings a year than countries like Sierra Leonne or Brazil you would think you guys would have wised up and realised its maybe not a great idea to have them so easily accessable.

To the OP not having a go at you, have spoken to you on other threads and you seem cool its just the American mentality I just cant get my head around it.

Your a jackass......we kicked your country out of ours a couple hundred years ago, no you gave up your gun rights, and now the bad guys have guns, ok so why make yourself defensless?? You are a product of your country and its thinking...as I am of mine, so when your country has no crime, and no murders come talk to us in America...oh yeah why is America the only country that hasn't had a standing army in it since we fought for and won our independance...All you UK countries, your welcome, we kept you all from having to speak german....All you UK EU people that think like the jackass I am responding to...well you need to keep thinking the way you do and prep with food and water and gear... cuz someone with a gun will need it and your sorry ass wouldn't be able to do anything about it...LOL

reply to post by saltdog

I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people that own firearms are lulled into a false sense of security... We have lost so many of our rights and the middle class has taken a nose dive financially since the 1980s and yet the ownership of firearms remains a political priority... The NRA is the largest contributor to the right wing republican campaigns and they are the ones that have exchanged " by the people for the people" for a corporate controlled system of fascism... Regardless of how many weapons that are owned by the citizens, TPTB have many more and much more deadly ones, some of which are subtly being used to control the masses every minute of the day.... I am a gun owner and presently a member of the NRA, but as much as I enjoy shooting tight groups and an occasional deer or hog I am sick and tired of having to screen my calls because of the endless harassment for $100+ contributions to the Republican party because gun ownership is under attack by those damned Commies or whatever... I'm not going to be played by people that instill fear on behalf of the worst of the crooks and liars and wants to use me and my money to perpetuate the selling of my rights as a citizen to the highest bidders.

reply to post by hypervigilant


I agree with you about the NRA, they are corperate crooks just like the political machine we have here....I don't support eather of them and even though I hunt and fish, I am not a member...I was going to join them a few years ago, they sent me info and then sent me a bill for membership, I wasn't a member and they wanted me to pay them for information that they gave me about them to join them, for me to think about joining, I called them and the rep said yes Mr. That is for being a member...well I am not a member I never joined...she said well you need to and you should pay us and donate to help support the 2nd ammendment...how much can you donate?...I told her that the 2nd ammendment was fine and that they cannot have my money and that if the government changes it, there will be a lot of trouble for them...both.

the amount of knowledge you all have on guns is astounding. it's in your everyday lives.
I wish I had one just so I could feel a bit safer, you know? for anything really...
the last gun I had pointed at me was from the police. and I was completely innocent.
i'm a martial artist/free runner for that reason, it's my only defense, but you can't defend against the cops, which is the scariest aspect. thats my perspective on guns anyways to answer your question, having a bag full of ammo and a couple guns would be preferable over more guns. you have more mobility and are more likely to hit something
but honestly when your under fire you'll need to have someone in your group laying down some big arms suppressing fire unless you want to get pinned down.

reply to post by yourmaker


Having a gun doesn't make you a bad ass....its a tool like a hammer or a drill...your better off without one if you don't know how to use it...it is just something for them to take away from you and use on you.

Guns are fun and cool to shoot but without bullets there just expensive clubs.

This is a really good thread, aside from those who would try to derail it. S&F.

I look at it like this:
In one type of shtf scenario, the first thing that will happen is the escape. If they are rounding people up in camps or whatever it may be, fighting them at first contact would be nearly impossible. So people will run, if they can. so whatever you have is going to have to be portable. Best case scenario would be to have 1 high capacity (6+) shotgun, 1 or 2 sidearms as backups, and as much ammo as you can carry for those guns.

In the other type of shtf scenario, like a natural disaster or a social collapse, it may be in your best interest to stay at home and try to defend it. In that case, as many guns as possible is better, so that you can form some sort of team and arm as many people as possible to defend the area.

Obviously, both of these scenarios can and probably would intertwine.

So, my thoughts are that you prepare for both scenarios. I would start by buying a 12ga, and continually stock up on shells. They are fairly cheap and pretty easily stored.

Then I'd get a .40 cal handgun. Something with a good reputation-glock, beretta, cz, etc. Again, continually stocking up on ammo and mags as time passes.

Then, as the budget allowed, I would add various other shotguns and rifles, stored in a safe that was hidden. I'd definitely focus more on shotguns, as if the idea is that I may have to arm newcomers, I know that even a novice can hit most targets with a shotgun. And I would rather have 12 guys with 6 shells each than just one and 72 shells. Reloading isn't the fastest thing in the world, especially if you have to reload a mag(if it were a rifle).

In the end, both fronts are covered. If I have to bail, I can arm myself and at least one other person and still be completely mobile. If I have to stay,I can gather those that I trust and make sure they are armed-even if I have to limit the amount of ammo each person has.

Originally posted by saltdog
reply to post by yourmaker

 

Having a gun doesn't make you a bad ass....its a tool like a hammer or a drill...your better off without one if you don't know how to use it...it is just something for them to take away from you and use on you.

Guns are fun and cool to shoot but without bullets there just expensive clubs.

ha I like that last line. I see what you mean.
I am familiar with the scoped lee-enfield .303 and 12 gauge but nothing beyond that.
that was just a days worth of experience but it was on an air force base so I learned enough that if someone put a rifle in my hands I could stay alive. got my own little personal survival course when I visited 4-wing back in 07. it was -25, learnt some arctic survival and situational awareness, badass

Depends on the situation.

Is there tons of ammo in the world? Then guns since I can refill.

If not, then ammo.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


I would prefer a rifle...like 30-06, 308 Ak, AR, or 30-30....the reason is that a shotgun is for closer ranges and I don't want to be that close to who or what I am shooting at...thats why you have a pistol that is 44,45,380,38,357 or even 9mm.

If they are rounding people up, I would like to think that thousands of military/ and police wouldn't play there bull# game and refuse the orders...then we could run them out of washington dc with the help of those that refused on a rail and place them in the proper places to make sure that they are never a problem again.

Originally posted by saltdog
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I would prefer a rifle...like 30-06, 308 Ak, AR, or 30-30....the reason is that a shotgun is for closer ranges and I don't want to be that close to who or what I am shooting at...thats why you have a pistol that is 44,45,380,38,357 or even 9mm.

If they are rounding people up, I would like to think that thousands of military/ and police wouldn't play there bull# game and refuse the orders...then we could run them out of washington dc with the help of those that refused on a rail and place them in the proper places to make sure that they are never a problem again.

I get you, and there definitely is a place for rifles, but in an escape/survive situation, I am not looking to take people out at long range, I am looking to get away unnoticed, only drawing the attention of firing my weapon as a last resort, meaning it would be at close range.

A shotty is far more effective than a handgun....there is no comparison.

1911A1 .45 and a M1A with a good ART scope for day and a starlight scope for night.
so i will take a lot of ammo.

They may get me sooner or later but i will have a lot of slaves in the afterlife.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by saltdog
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I would prefer a rifle...like 30-06, 308 Ak, AR, or 30-30....the reason is that a shotgun is for closer ranges and I don't want to be that close to who or what I am shooting at...thats why you have a pistol that is 44,45,380,38,357 or even 9mm.

If they are rounding people up, I would like to think that thousands of military/ and police wouldn't play there bull# game and refuse the orders...then we could run them out of washington dc with the help of those that refused on a rail and place them in the proper places to make sure that they are never a problem again.

I get you, and there definitely is a place for rifles, but in an escape/survive situation, I am not looking to take people out at long range, I am looking to get away unnoticed, only drawing the attention of firing my weapon as a last resort, meaning it would be at close range.

A shotty is far more effective than a handgun....there is no comparison.

Well use what you have, I will be using things that quiet them down...if you get 1 and have 3-4 mounts for it you can use it on more than 1 rifle, plus if you get a .30 cal supressor you can also use it on .223. It doesn't silence it but you are very very quiet...plus there are sub-sonic bullets for the weapons and those are very quiet with it...so you could easily hide and shoot without being seen or heard.