Arizona seeks online donations to build border fence

This is freakin awesome. Seal the whole border afaiac. I will donate weekly. I swear I want to move to Az more and more each day.

reply to post by nateandcourt


What is afaiac? By the way, do you think that this border fence project could be sabotaged in some way? After all, I would imagine that there are a number of resourceful groups and idividuals that do not want to see thise initiative come to fruition.

Originally posted by Night Star

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Yet, another attempt by Phoenix to try and play "Federal Agent" again. This is a national and Federal matter and is on hold.

Something else that will get stopped cold!

If the feds did their job in the first place, Arizona wouldn't have to do this.
Arizona has begged for help for years. I am far away from the border and we have a huge problem with illegals. Millions of people from all across the USA are being displaced in the workforce. They are no longer taking just the jobs that American's won't do and havn't for years!

When ICE deports thousands of illegals, thousands of citizens quickly and easily fill those positions. There are problems with illegal immigration on many levels. Yay Arizona! Do what you have to do!

They are doing their job but thank your GOP cohorts in the Congress for cutting and stripping the budget needed to maintain this. This all steems back to the GOP.

Originally posted by groingrinder
The Obama administration ignores the illegal immigration problem for one reason only. That reason is that they need the illegal aliens to vote in order to keep their jobs.

The only reason why the GOP won't do a darn thing about it is so that they can exploit the immigrants for cheap labour peddling advertistements and literateture for the GOP. Cheap labour whereas they have no rights!

reply to post by Nathwa


I was always a fan of voting with your tax dollars. I think this kind of thing could catch on. Want to solve the homeless problem in your city, send some money online to that project. Want to solve crumbling road conditions in your neighborhood? Have a pitch-in set up. When enough people want it they will contribute. Of course the government would need to give back our tax dollars they currently keep to make this a true reality. However, I have to give Arizona props for using people power to fund initiatives. True freedom should happen this way in our advanced world, it would stop a lot of problems politically. Vote with your tax dollars and very few will be mad.

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by Nathwa

 

I was always a fan of voting with your tax dollars. I think this kind of thing could catch on. Want to solve the homeless problem in your city, send some money online to that project. Want to solve crumbling road conditions in your neighborhood? Have a pitch-in set up. When enough people want it they will contribute. Of course the government would need to give back our tax dollars they currently keep to make this a true reality. However, I have to give Arizona props for using people power to fund initiatives. True freedom should happen this way in our advanced world, it would stop a lot of problems politically. Vote with your tax dollars and very few will be mad.

So "True freedom" to you means having a state overstepping into Federal territory?

Originally posted by SmArTbEaTz

Originally posted by newcovenant
"the barriers inappropriately jeopardize the health and safety of those seeking illegal entry into the United States"

I'm sorry but who cares...

If they are doing it on their own free will then they are taking the risk, so what ever happens to them they deserve. Should of stayed in your own country or found a way to get in ours legally! My relatives worked hard establish their citizenship and no one should be excluded. Hospitals need to stop servicing these dead beats. My mother has worked in the ER for over 40 yrs and these illegals have no right to beg for these services that hard working Americans pay for, when they just end up walking out or complaining they can't speak English. Why should we be forced to put these freeloaders on our backs and carry them? We all know they would never do the same for us, and if any other country wants to complain... then you take them...

I considered removing that quote since I am well aware of some resentment that would froth forward and spill over if I left it in. These are human beings. All are not drug runners and I disagree they are criminals simply for stepping over a border. If you base compassion for your fellow man on skin color you really don't have anything left worth protecting anyway. IMO

Is Arizona becoming the nuttiest state in the country? Could be.

How is this going to stop illegal immigrants from coming into the country? Give me a break. Talk about a waste of money.

If companies and corporations aren't going to be seriously fined/punished/penalized for hiring illegals, then illegal immigration will continue to be a problem. A fence is not going to stop them!

I think illegal immigration will continue to be a problem even if companies are seriously fined, these immigrants are coming from some extremely poor areas and are desperate, but actually going after companies and corporations that hire them would curb the problem, IMO.

What this immigration issue has shown to me is further proof that corporations really run this country while politicians continually ignore that (huge) part of the issue.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


Not sure I understand your position. Here are your points summarized:

1). You don't think the states have the right to secure their borders because it is the federal government's job.

But the federal government is not doing their job. So then what? Does self reliance not register to you? Personally, I feel bad for Arizona that they are having to do this because the federal government has refused to do their job.

2). You say they are not to fence off their property using state funds.

Well, this is not general funds. This is based off of private donations. And why can't they use government funds? Where do you think the fence would come from if the federal government paid for it?

3). You acknowledge the fact the citizens are not allowed to defend their own property or engage 'hoppers.'

So what do you suggest the people do? Continue to have their property destroyed, public services drained, homes broken into, and be the victims of crimes while they wait for the feds to get off their rump?

You sound very indoctrinated to me in that you do not advocate self reliance but instead sitting around with your hand out waiting for big brother to take care of everything.

Etc., etc.

I will make you a deal. I will agree to see things as you do but I need you to put an ad in the paper. Invite 100 illegal immigrants to stay in your house for one year. Once that happens, I will join your cause and admit you are right.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by SmArTbEaTz

Originally posted by newcovenant
"the barriers inappropriately jeopardize the health and safety of those seeking illegal entry into the United States"

I'm sorry but who cares...

If they are doing it on their own free will then they are taking the risk, so what ever happens to them they deserve. Should of stayed in your own country or found a way to get in ours legally! My relatives worked hard establish their citizenship and no one should be excluded. Hospitals need to stop servicing these dead beats. My mother has worked in the ER for over 40 yrs and these illegals have no right to beg for these services that hard working Americans pay for, when they just end up walking out or complaining they can't speak English. Why should we be forced to put these freeloaders on our backs and carry them? We all know they would never do the same for us, and if any other country wants to complain... then you take them...

I considered removing that quote since I am well aware of some resentment that would froth forward and spill over if I left it in. These are human beings. All are not drug runners and I disagree they are criminals simply for stepping over a border. If you base compassion for your fellow man on skin color you really don't have anything left worth protecting anyway. IMO

They are criminals for stepping over the border, stealing identities, using false documents etc. Yes they are human beings and not all of them are drug runners, but you have to understand that thousands of people have lost their lives because of illegals who have had numerous arrests and deportations only to return again and cause another crime. One young girl lost both her legs because of an illegal and our laws not being enforced. Many illegals have no intention of becoming legal and use the system to their advantage through deciet. It has nothing to do with the color of someones skin or what their culture is. We have laws for a reason, to protect our citizens.

We always hear about the 'poor' illegal. It cost these people a lot of money for their stolen identities and false documents. If you're poor, you don't have money for these things. I have yet to meet a starving illegal. Many are overweight and well fed and have all their needs met, medical, cheap housing etc. All the while we have thousands of people who are above the poverty limit by like two bucks and get no assistance whatsoever. Some have to choose between life savings medicine or food.

If we cannot help our own, we have no business allowing an overwhelming number of illegals to have all their needs met, while citizens are falling through the cracks.

If we have millions of un-employed people, we do not need millions of illegals taking jobs.We hear about compassion for these illegals, but at the expensive of our own poor?

There are even jobs that require people to be bilingual and speak spanish in order to get hired. I'm talking simple factory jobs where there is no need. No American citizen should be forced to speak a foreign language to get a simple factory job in their own Country!

Originally posted by origamiandurbanism
Is Arizona becoming the nuttiest state in the country? Could be.

How is this going to stop illegal immigrants from coming into the country? Give me a break. Talk about a waste of money.

If companies and corporations aren't going to be seriously fined/punished/penalized for hiring illegals, then illegal immigration will continue to be a problem. A fence is not going to stop them!

I think illegal immigration will continue to be a problem even if companies are seriously fined, these immigrants are coming from some extremely poor areas and are desperate, but actually going after companies and corporations that hire them would curb the problem, IMO.

What this immigration issue has shown to me is further proof that corporations really run this country while politicians continually ignore that (huge) part of the issue.

Bingo! We are trying to get bills passed that would do exactly that. The problem is that the illegals have so many sympathizers and we get shot down and have to keep trying.

Sure...siphon even more money out of the poor schlubs ...er...suckers...er American citizens. No, wait! I'm sure all the corporations and the top 3% will donate the most

If everyone just gives me a dollar...

Originally posted by rocha123
I WILL DONATE a bunch of pity fro the lawmakers that are going rogue,making this kind of effort with NO MONEY,,,,,,,,They just making the number,in reality its only for the border ,but what about by sea????by airplane those inmmigrants from euroasia??????nonetheless the pakistanis and middle east illegal inmmigrants in general?????....WHERE WE GONNA BUILT A FENCE THEN???

Good point! Illegals are not just coming from the border. All the more reason we need to enforce existing immigration laws.

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by VicDiaz89

 

Unfortunately "ethnic studies" as taught in Tucson was actually RACIST PROPAGANDA aimed at stirring up support for reconquista.

A lot of "ethnic studies" and even "gender studies" are actually pretty blatant sexism and racism. I have very little respect for "sociology" because they allow just outright rubbish to fly under the radar in those areas.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
No, wait! I'm sure all the corporations and the top 3% will donate the most

Of course they wont. They want the cheap labor, nannies and house keepers. Neither party has been respecting the will of the American people on this issue. We have long wanted a more secure southern border. But everytime its mentions the media begins bleating about racism. And yet CANADA can beef up its borders.

Originally posted by Night Star

Originally posted by origamiandurbanism
Is Arizona becoming the nuttiest state in the country? Could be.

How is this going to stop illegal immigrants from coming into the country? Give me a break. Talk about a waste of money.

If companies and corporations aren't going to be seriously fined/punished/penalized for hiring illegals, then illegal immigration will continue to be a problem. A fence is not going to stop them!

I think illegal immigration will continue to be a problem even if companies are seriously fined, these immigrants are coming from some extremely poor areas and are desperate, but actually going after companies and corporations that hire them would curb the problem, IMO.

What this immigration issue has shown to me is further proof that corporations really run this country while politicians continually ignore that (huge) part of the issue.

Bingo! We are trying to get bills passed that would do exactly that. The problem is that the illegals have so many sympathizers and we get shot down and have to keep trying.

I actually sympathize with illegal immigrants, who I don't sympathize with are greedy corporations and employers who don't want to pay a decent wage to Americans and instead want slave labor and corrupt, do-nothing politicians who protect them.

I think the problem isn't sympathizers, it's corrupt politicians and a broken political system in this country.

This whole "border fence" is obviously a charade, IMO, to try to placate people instead of addressing the real issues in regard to illegal immigration.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

Not sure I understand your position. Here are your points summarized:

1). You don't think the states have the right to secure their borders because it is the federal government's job.

But the federal government is not doing their job. So then what? Does self reliance not register to you? Personally, I feel bad for Arizona that they are having to do this because the federal government has refused to do their job.
--The GOP and TPTB have defunded ICE, INS and Border so much that they can't maintain nor keep the manpower there that is required to surveil the property.

2). You say they are not to fence off their property using state funds.

Well, this is not general funds. This is based off of private donations. And why can't they use government funds? Where do you think the fence would come from if the federal government paid for it?

3). You acknowledge the fact the citizens are not allowed to defend their own property or engage 'hoppers.'
- Defense of your property is allowed yes, but as long as they remain outside of your property and across the border you are not allowed to engage.

So what do you suggest the people do? Continue to have their property destroyed, public services drained, homes broken into, and be the victims of crimes while they wait for the feds to get off their rump?

You sound very indoctrinated to me in that you do not advocate self reliance but instead sitting around with your hand out waiting for big brother to take care of everything.

Etc., etc.

I will make you a deal. I will agree to see things as you do but I need you to put an ad in the paper. Invite 100 illegal immigrants to stay in your house for one year. Once that happens, I will join your cause and admit you are right.

Would you allow illegals to crash at your home? No right so no deal can be struck.

When a matter that stretches from Cali to Texas you'd have Cali, Az, N Mex and Tex all battling it out trying to see whose got jurisdiction as this alone clogs up the State courts with nonsense hence why The Federal Govt is in charge of matters pertaining to the border.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Only would be the case if Immigration was a State matter for which it is not so that nullifies that. It will always be adherent to The Federal Gov't's liking and no one else's! States have no authourity to cross into another state to pursue a suspect as the Federal Gov't more then has the authourity to do just that. This is reality.

That's just laughable. Lets say that 'state' is my house.. you gonna tell me I cannot restrict unwanted people from coming into my house? It's the same thing. States have to rule themselves. We live in a republic. The federal government has No power to tell any state what to do accept for the power the people of that state allow them to have. If you don't believe me, look up the role of the federal government and the role of the state. The federal government was not created to lord over the states, but to be a mediator between the states.

No one is talking about Arizona going into another state to pursue a potential criminal. Only that Arizona put up a fence to keep certain people out.

reply to post by Night Star


Unless you are a native American you yourself were once in the same position as this person trying to come here and take from who was here. Are you a criminal? Should you be shot or should you have been shot at the time? Maybe the answer is yes. They should have put up a fence and if we came anyway we should be killed and that is exactly what happened but we kept on coming and we did not stop.

There is never only one answer to a problem.
You can solve your problem without demonizing and making criminals out of Mexicans or Mexico. You don't have enough room in your jails as it is.

Border control is a serious issue and there should be no crossing our border without papers and legal entry but lets don't throw the clean baby out along with the dirty bathwater.

Some people are OFFERED political asylum in this country after they arrive and isn't that just a stinking double standard when you are hunting down a mother and child who are escaping brutality in Mexico and sending them back to it?

Like I say there are no easy answers but that does not mean you have to strip yourself of personal integrity and decency and despise Mexicans or all foreigners who step foot on our land to be a good American.

Now if they start taking land or building settlements - You should have every right to boot them out yourselves.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by Night Star

 

Unless you are a native American you yourself were once in the same position as this person trying to come here and take from who was here. Are you a criminal? Should you be shot or should you have been shot at the time? Maybe the answer is yes. They should have put up a fence and if we came anyway we should be killed and that is exactly what happened but we kept on coming and we did not stop.

There is never only one answer to a problem.
You can solve your problem without demonizing and making criminals out of Mexicans or Mexico. You don't have enough room in your jails as it is.

Border control is a serious issue and there should be no crossing our border without papers and legal entry but lets don't throw the clean baby out along with the dirty bathwater.

Some people are OFFERED political asylum in this country after they arrive and isn't that just a stinking double standard when you are hunting down a mother and child who are escaping brutality in Mexico and sending them back to it?

Like I say there are no easy answers but that does not mean you have to strip yourself of personal integrity and decency and despise Mexicans or all foreigners who step foot on our land to be a good American.

Now if they start taking land or building settlements - You should have every right to boot them out yourselves.

I am French, Irish, and Native American Indian. My french ancestors and Irish ancestors came here legally. My native American ancestors were already here. I don't despise Mexicans or any foreigner. I am standing up for every citizen who has been displaced by an illegal in the workforce, every citizen who has been killed or mamed, or affected in some way. If you just allow everyone to come through, you are also allowing murderers, pedophiles, thieves etc. There are indeed criminals coming through and you can't deny that. Are you going to justify thousands of deaths by criminal illegals by allowing just anyone to come through without background checks? Are you saying it is ok to allow millions of illegals to take jobs while our economy is so bad and so many of our citizens are jobless and trying desperately to feed and care for their families?

Have you ever seen an American citizen turned away from a job while an illegal was hired instead? I have. Have you ever known illegals personally? I have. I learned how they manipulate the system to get what they want. Women who claim to be a one income household when they are a two income household making above the poverty limit and are on welfare, have medical, cheap housing and food stamps. That is theft! That is decietful. When I asked them why they didn't try to become legal, they tell me America is stupid and you get a lot being illegal. Some I was able to convince them to go through the proper channels and helped them with their citizen tests. Many had no intention of ever becoming legal, are saving their money to return to their own Countries as our money is worth so much more in their Country.

When I see an 87 year old woman crying because she made 2.00 over the poverty limit and is denied help with thousands of dollars in medical bills while an illegal has his/her needs met through deciet, there is a problem. When you see American citizens displaced by an illegal in the workforce, there is a problem. When an illegal steals an identity and uses false documents to gain what they want, there is a problem. It is a slap in the face to every foreigner who is coming through the proper channels and respects our laws when an illegal jumps to the head of the line. We have people from all over the world who would love to be here. can we take them all in? It is impossible for any one Country to take in all the world's poor. We have our own poor people who have nowhere to turn, who would never expect another Country to change their laws and take them in.

All the people of the world deserve a decent life and their Countries should look after them. Sadly that isn't the case.

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