What if America falls?

There are a lot of really good thoughts and comments on this thread. Even the ones that I don't agree with are thought provoking and show thought, that can be hard to come by these days!

To the OP, thank you for appreciating my first response. To others who think my summarization of the state of events actually evidences what will contribute to our downfall, I fail to follow that logic but am open to further discussion.

In terms of inflation. Yes, it is coming. China will raise their wages and standard of living. That will cool their GDP and cause price increases here of all imported items. And this before a change in the exchange of the two currencies. And that exchange will also be fluctuating. But, inflation is not all bad. Especially for debtors and debtor nations.

The monthly price of mortgages will not change for those who already have them. But, inflation and a devalued dollar will eventually lead to wage increases. Now the 1900 a month you are paying for your metro area 3 bedroom, bath a a half (locked in at a mid five interest rate to reflect average metro price and interest on decent credit during the mid point of the boom and price spike of the real estate bubble), will only be 20 percent of your monthly rather than say 32 percent. The 12 percent savings will go to pay for the higher price of gas and goods. So, homeowners largely break even.

Unless the homeowner was on the brink of default. If they were on the brink of default inflation would restore their recently devalued property value. This gives them the motivation to continue to pay. The 12 percent wiggle room from their new inflation adjusted salary allows them to pay. Sure, they are still tight on other things that they want to buy, but they stop defaulting. They stop the foreclosures and the downward spiral of house values.

As imported items continue to rise in price there comes a point where the comparative labor advantage of "underpaid" developing countries personel becomes a wash and business starts to move back home. U.S. technology exports are up several percentage points since the start of 2011. Other industries will follow.

If inflation can put the brakes on the housing crisis AND pull jobs back to the states. Well, then yes. Of course they are doing it on purpose. And they should. But, it is a fine line and there are absolutely people who will not come out ahead on all of this. But the government, and the Middle Class will both benefit. The rich will lose nothing. So, it's full steam ahead.

They just have to not let it spiral out of control too quickly.

Well obviously soon after the fall the worlds currency will move to a One World Currency in the form of the Euro.

The entire world is watching intensely at the death of our dollar and free fall collapse into chaos. The entire world is asking questions what will happen when the top dog, the bully, the rich kid finally gets knocked out?

Yes, everyone in the world is concerned about what the affects of our collapse will have on their own daily lives, as evidence of this original posters location. Everyone is indeed concerned. Everyone of course, except the American people themselves.

No, not us. We have our boogeyman rising from the grave to try and attack our nightmares again this, thank god we killed him again, and this time made sure to dump his body in the ocean. "Did I just describe any Nightmare On Elm Street or modern America?" We have birth certificates. We have Dancing With The Stars, American Idol and TMZ tweets to keep busy with and if the MC Rib is going to return to McDonalds for good.

So when you break it down. Yes the dollar is death rattling. Yes we are headed for a collapse Rome would of traded for. But as you can clearly see, we have far too many things to worry about. Be right back Celebrity Apprentice is back from commercial....

Originally posted by fooks

Originally posted by Nobama
reply to post by ExCommando

 

what are you talking about? I was stating every great Empire comes to an end (history shows it) and used Rome as a example...

well when rome fell, so did the world.

didn't the dark ages start right around then?

The 'dark ages' were, for the most part, relegated to Europe. Parts of Africa were experiencing a golden age, of course , China was doing relatively well, and of course there were several civilizations in what is now the Americas.

reply to post by Under Water

I think the first thing that would happen is we would dissolve the USA and create the NAU (North American Union), merging canada and mexico with the usa.

I would definitely disagree with this statement. This is my(our) country and I think there are people that would agree that we will fight like our ancestors for the continuence of the United States of America. Our military generals are some of the most patriotic citizens and I have a hard time seeing them allowing that to happen. Break out the pitchforks and machetes it may get messy.

To the hell with Mexico and Canada uniting.

Not trying to offend people. This is only my opinion as a resident of the midwest USA. To the CIA member who is reading this...hello...

This crap can only go on for so long. Something will change..

reply to post by incrediblelousminds


true but rome had no influence there, they probably never heard of rome.


reply to post by ExCommando


well then, if america did fall then, i believe it will not resort to a NAU.

the multi national corps (based in the us) will die also, or leave, leaving a vacum for others to start again. opec will switch to another currency as the US opens it's own resources. they will suffer also. russia and china have their own resources.

we will have to become isolationists, for a while. not a bad idea. way big changes all over the world.
all our assets will be called back.

i can't see americans jumping ship, there will be no place to go, imo.

if there is war, it will most likely come to us.

the political system, left/right will collapse also. leaving a better field open.

these idiots will be pointing fingers at each other all the way to jail.



star 4 u liejunkie

Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to post by Under Water

 

I think the first thing that would happen is we would dissolve the USA and create the NAU (North American Union), merging canada and mexico with the usa.

I would definitely disagree with this statement. This is my country and I think there are people that would agree that we will fight like our ancestors for the continuence of the United States of America. Our military generals are some of the most patriotic citizens and I have a hard time seeing them allowing that to happen. Break out the pitchforks and machetes it may get messy.

If you wanted to join the rest of the civilized world, the least you could do is remove boarders and maybe work on a unified currency. One of the reasons your country looks so stupid, as an example, is that you have millions of Mexicans crossing the boarder illegally every day, and the brain trust in Wash answer is to...wait for it..get hard ass on Canada...hey lets put camera's on the north or the boarder and demand passports! Your politicians are cowards who cannot deal with the real problem.

If you drive around Europe you can drive from country to country, without having some half-wit, working off a bad childhood giving you grief at the border. Trust me, we are not going down to the US to live in Buffalo or Detroit.

To the hell with Mexico and Canada uniting.

Not trying to offend people. This is only my opinion as a resident of the midwest USA. To the CIA members who is reading this...hello...

This crap can only go on for so long. Something will change..

reply to post by fooks


I think this is turning into an extremely interesting and current topic - the more views we receive, the more we are able to drill down, and hopefully encourage further debate.

With this in mind, I think we need to have more flags, so it's bought to the wider ATS attention - let's not let this topic slip away once it's not "new".

Cheers guys

Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

true but rome had no influence there, they probably never heard of rome.

Yes, they were aware of Rome.

Regardless, my post was in response to you saying 'when Rome fell, so did the world', which is not a true statement. As you seem to note yourself, there were other parts of the world besides Rome.

reply to post by Ultraman2011

If you wanted to join the rest of the civilized world, the least you could do is remove boarders and maybe work on a unified currency.

Can I ask which part of the "civilized world" are we talking about here. Sorry, unified currency does not sound good to me. But what do I know?

reply to post by ExCommando


America will not fall, we are 2 diverse continents.
However, the US is set to stumble.
Some people will die from anything from justice to starvation.
We will reset and hopefully not meddle in others affairs.

The US falling is not something to really worry about because the world will fall with it and I am sure the other countries would like and not like that to happen all at the same time. What I mean is US is #1 right know as the US falls these other up and coming countries step in to balnce it know the question is how greedy are these other countries. Will they stop the US from falling so that the global powers are all about the same or are they afraid of a quick recovery by the US back to its #1 postion if they are are afraid of this I would imagien that they will let the US drop farther befor picking them back up. Because each coutry does have its on econmy but its really a global econmy so if one country hurts all the countries hurt.

Its possible that when the u.s. loses its dominant position on the economic world market, all of our allied countries who you know are in it just for the money, will defect to the number 1 power which will be china.

reply to post by g146541


You really think this is happeneing from the u.s. meddling in others affairs?

Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to post by Under Water

 

I think the first thing that would happen is we would dissolve the USA and create the NAU (North American Union), merging canada and mexico with the usa.

I would definitely disagree with this statement. This is my(our) country and I think there are people that would agree that we will fight like our ancestors for the continuence of the United States of America. Our military generals are some of the most patriotic citizens and I have a hard time seeing them allowing that to happen. Break out the pitchforks and machetes it may get messy.

To the hell with Mexico and Canada uniting.

Not trying to offend people. This is only my opinion as a resident of the midwest USA. To the CIA member who is reading this...hello...

I totally agree. No offence taken either. Being neighbours is just fine.
Canada also doesn't want any part of becoming one with the US, or Mexico.
With our luck (citizens), they'd pick the banking system of the US, instead of the one that works.
That Federal Reserve system should go.

reply to post by ExCommando


Before the wealthy and the bank mafia goes down and take down US with it, they will leach the tax payer to death.

The already are doing it.

reply to post by BanMePlz


Actually it would be a conglomeration of several things.
Let's start off at ground zero.
The Fed, if we do away with this we would save a huge chunk on our money.
Trade, Tariff's Etc., How can a piece of garbage made in china be cheaper than something made on US soil?
Greed is why, on the unions, corporations and even the workers.
The corporations want to pay the workers bottom dollar, the workers want top dollar, and the Unions Help balance,...At a price. Google "deal with the devil".
So companies have moved out of the US.
Enter the only industry that does manufacture here, Military equipment and weapons.
The only jobs left are military and we are in everyone elses affairs.
On the whole that's about it.
But if we could bring all of our boys home, some would start companies and we could start to manufacture here, making jobs for the Ex mil.
That's about how i see it.

We will be fine down under, As long as our Pm keeps her nose out of it all. All will be good. We might pay a little more for our lcd tv or that brand new iphone and white goods, as a lot of our imports are mostly from areas such as Asia, other then that life goes on

Well ... it has failed as a Democracy. The Neocons have seen to that. And it's failure will be a good thing as this dump of a Nation needs to fail. Perhaps something better can be built.

Originally posted by BanMePlz
Its possible that when the u.s. loses its dominant position on the economic world market, all of our allied countries who you know are in it just for the money, will defect to the number 1 power which will be china.

This would be funny and have so many backlashes, I'll throw this out there, if that did happen I bet there would be a few accidental bombings.

Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to post by Ultraman2011

 

If you wanted to join the rest of the civilized world, the least you could do is remove boarders and maybe work on a unified currency.

Can I ask which part of the "civilized world" are we talking about here. Sorry, unified currency does not sound good to me. But what do I know?

Lowering the border silliness is a given. There is so much time and money wasted. At the end of the day we should be able to come to a common acceptance on trade and commerce matters that would allow us to travel freely between the two countries. The currency thing is a bit more tricky but should be achievable over time. It doesn't affect our freedom any more than Greece was affected by joining the EEC. With one currency we can benefit from a unified economy like the EEC.