satan the messiah??

Yes, the planet was named Venus, but really it's a rock.

There's more to its orbit too. Half of the time (263 days) it comes out in the evening as the first star (I see tonight), and half the time (263 days) it is the Morning Star. (And there are 8 days when Venus is in front of Sol and 50 days when it's behind Sol, for a total orbit of 584 days).

So, as well as the pentagram it could be said the figure 8 also had its beginnings with this rock we call Venus.


[edit on 18/8/04 by stoneskull]

hey good use of critical thinking skills friend.
i have come to think of yaweh as a satan (adversary).
it was, afterall he who lied in the garden, not the serpent.
i think the bible is the most clever deception known to man.
which puts any theory that uses characters from the good book, on my 'suspect' list.
i am inclined to believe we are a created race, and that was the sin that pissed off the powers that be (god/s). i dont think you are suppose to mess in the affairs of men, much less their DNA.
there was no 'fall'. only a direct intent to violate all spiritual laws by creating a slave race.
there has always been dark and light. good evil, gods and satans.
nothing is new under the sun.
and it is all meaningless.........solomon

Interesting thread guys, strange how well this one jives with what I have been stumbling across lately. Almost goose-bumpy!!

By following a link to a Nostradamus site, I came across a link for a guy named Sollog--some sort of prophet. Now he seems to have been around a while, but I'm a bit behind, so he was news to me.

He had a lot of stuff about the Bible code and how it showed him the name of the 666 beast, so I bit and followed that link. He had it all laid out--the words "Jesus" and "Christ" intersected with "Satan"-- now that was a first for me. ( having been raised Baptist, I can't quite quote the bible, but I sat through a LOT of Bible study as a kid--during college and since I have studied a wider range of beliefs and do not consider myself 'strictly christian'.) don't know if his 'Bible code' is the same as the one I generally hear mentioned lately.

He threw out several verses and such to further support his claim, but the one that really took my breath was Rev. 22:16 --where Jesus says "I am...the Morning Star." ( Lucifer is also called the Morning Star!)

What have you all heard about Sollog ? Do a web search, all sorts of stuff pops up, but I had not heard of him before.

Originally posted by frayed1
He threw out several verses and such to further support his claim, but the one that really took my breath was Rev. 22:16 --where Jesus says "I am...the Morning Star." ( Lucifer is also called the Morning Star!)

If you are going to seriously study the Bible you have to use the KJV. Jesus is called the bright and morning star in Rev. 22:16. In Isaiah 14:12 satan is called son of the morning. The NIV version is where satan is given a title for Jesus, morning star. You have to be really familiar with the KJV so that when you are reading the other translations you can be aware of the subtle differences that are a big deal.

[edit on 18-8-2004 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by soothsayer
Now, I cannot provide Biblical accounts or texts relating to Satan/Lucifer being the angel of light, the bringer of fire and music... those are in other texts not recognized by the Church, or they are cross examinations of other myths and legends, but as for Satan being God's right hand man...

It is a matter of simple deduction.

God's gift to mankind was free-will... the ability to choose and do what we want. Angels do not have this, they must do as God tells them, every single one.

That is, of course, with the exception of Satan.

How else can one explain how Satan decided to overthrow God, and start a rebellion? How else can it be said that Satan thought himself better than God, if he had not the free-will to think so?

Satan had free-will and freedom of thought, and had the ability to act out his own agenda.

Now, then, another point, with Satan being equal to God...

Satan was able to convince and lead an equal share of the angelic hosts in this rebellion. How? We already know angels do not posses free-will... how then were the angels divided? Satan had to exercise his powers over them, excert his will... which flies right in the face of excepted doctrine... Satan had command over the angels.

Does this not make sense?

Now, then, we have a dilema... if Satan did not have free-will, then God told him to rebel, to take half the angels with him... if Satan did not have free-will, that means everything Satan was held accountable for in the Bible is merely Satan following orders, from the Garden of Eden to Job to the temptation of Christ, and all points in between.

Did I mention Job? Another point as to the equality...

God took council with Satan. God condemned a man, a faithful man, to a life of death, despair, and misery, all because God and Satan had a bet. God could not just command Satan away, God could not have just told Satan he was wrong... God had to prove it to Satan. Why? If Satan was a lesser being, why would God have to prove, why would He even have to except a challenge, from him?

It is because they are equals, both God and Satan represent the ying/yang duelistic natures. In my opinion, God is the female, Satan the male... but that's on a different post...

OH! About my being unable to give biblical accounts of Satan/Lucifer being light/fire/music... I can easily show you where it states Satan is the Angel of Judgement, if that helps...

On a side note...

Anyone ever notice Satan is just the "Prince" of Darkness? Who is the "King" of Darkness then? Surely not God...

Another side note...

Satan and Lucifer ARE the same being, if you read the King James Bible... and since Lucifer means "Light Bringer"... hmm...

It's not merely a matter of being "equals".. so much as it is of being two parts of a whole.... there can be no light without darkness, nor darkness without light.

Well, in reality, if you want to be truly studious of the Bible, the KJV is not the version to use. I would prefer to use a cross referencing version applying the original texts from the most recent finds and most ancient scrolls and texts with translations, both literal and common language.

There is a program that can do this, but the name escapes me at the moment, it is very expensive, though, if memory serves.

However you slice it, every version of the Bible is inherrently flawed. Recent observations and study ahve eliminated entire chapters from the Bible, referencing recently discovered manuscripts of more ancient origin than was available at the time.

your mileage may vary

Satan is the First Messiah, False Messiah, the name Anit-Christ means in the greek "INSTEAD OF CHRIST" only one man, yes i said man, can come and appear to be Christ and perform the miracles that the Bible talks about. The first rider on a white horse is the deceiver. This is the #1 reason that rapture is so bad, these people will follow the first "Christ" they see, the False one....

The first fig taken was taken out of season.....be sure to have enough oil in your lamp....

TheIndependentJournal

If you are going to seriously study the Bible you have to use the KJV. Jesus is called the bright and morning star in Rev. 22:16.

[edit on 18-8-2004 by dbrandt]

Yes, that was the KJV, remember I said I was raised Baptist- back then, if you used one of the new Bibles, you were considered a heritic.

When I took religion courses in college, the prof insisted the only way to be sure of the 'original' intent of the author was to learn to read the language it was written in. Aramaic or maybe Hebrew. Once the text was translated into greek then latin then olde english then KJ english, you ran the risk of mis interpretation. (Have you ever played telephone, or gossip, as a kid??)

Once again, this was not an idea welcomed by my Baptist family, it was KJV or nothing!! ( while I do not consider myself a real 'student' of the Bible, believe me I was well exposed. My Dad was a Sunday school teacher, The Sunday school 'superintendent', and the church clerk ( I got to read the minutes of church business meeting from the late 1800's thru the 1970's -- now there was a glimpse into some interesting christian behavior)
--for a good 18 years my behind occupied a pew three to four times a week. I don't resent putting in that much time, I feel it gives me an insight into some fundamentalists' beliefs, even though my own have evolved some what.

Satanism appeals to the human nature of wanting to be evil and the killer instinct...

Originally posted by Hellmutt
Satanism appeals to the human nature of wanting to be evil and the killer instinct...

Yah we are born with a sin nature and not wanting to know God. Only Christ can remove the sin nature

Here are some gnostic views that state that Satan is the true good God, while the God of the Hebrew Bible is evil... please remember, though, that this gnostic view does not represent all gnostic views.

The God of this World

They could draw some support for this opinion from the New Testament. In the story of temptation in the wilderness, the Devil offers Jesus 'all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them' (Matthew, chapter 4), with clear implication that the gift is his to make. In St John's gospel (12:31) the Devil is called 'the ruler of this world', and St Paul calls him 'the god of this world' (2 Corinthians 4:4). And the belief that this evil god of Yahweh could have been supported from another passage in St John (8:44), where Jesus tells the Jews that their Father is not God but the Devil.

taken from volume 18 of the encyclopedia Man, Myth & Magic... copy 1970

*edit typo*

[edit on 19-8-2004 by soothsayer]

Originally posted by soothsayer
The God of this World

They could draw some support for this opinion from the New Testament. In the story of temptation in the wilderness, the Devil offers Jesus 'all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them' (Matthew, chapter 4), with clear implication that the gift is his to make. In St John's gospel (12:31) the Devil is called 'the ruler of this world', and St Paul calls him 'the god of this world' (2 Corinthians 4:4). And the belief that this evil god of Yahweh could have been supported from another passage in St John (8:44), where Jesus tells the Jews that their Father is not God but the Devil.


[edit on 19-8-2004 by soothsayer]

In the first reference satan was trying to get Jesus to bypass the cross. In the others, yes, satan is a being with "power". satan is not God or a God but desires to be. He is a "god" in the sense that he can infiltrate and try to deceive mankind and mess with us. Sometimes successfully and other times not successfully. The last one is very blunt. If you have not come back to God the Father in the way He has given us then you belong to satan. satan still has you deceived. God the Father tells us, christians will share evrerything in creation. If you refuse to leave the side of satan, you will share it what he has coming, hell. It's very blunt and people don't like that. But it also leaves no middle ground.

I don't care for a football game that ends in a tie. God and satan will not end up in a tie. Jesus won the game for us, there is a loser and he's a very poor sport.

Originally posted by soothsayer
in St John (8:44), where Jesus tells the Jews that their Father is not God but the Devil.

You have to understand whom Yashua is speaking to here, it is not the JEW but the FALSE JEW. He said they claimed to be of Adam but their father was Cain whose father was SATAN see my post above for KJV verses to support. So Yashua told the sanhedran(false jews) that they were not of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob(Israel). He was warning us against the Kenites(Sons of Cain) whom claim Adamic bloodline

I just looked and the verses are actually in the Satan and Eve thread sorry for the mistake..

[edit on 8/19/2004 by theindependentjournal]

The author thinks he is crazy, he aint seen chit yet, heh

I Read all the posts and don't know where to start so I will just print some random thoughts that your posts stirred in me ....



"...He threw out several verses and such to further support his claim, but the one that really took my breath was Rev. 22:16 --where Jesus says "I am...the Morning Star." ( Lucifer is also called the Morning Star!) "

....

Where does Lucifer get called the Morning Star?? ... That is not true...

This is the verse you are referring to? >
Isa 14:12 -
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!


Son of the dawn of time is what Lucifer is called here NOT morning star...


Ezekiel goes on to tell us that Lucifer "walked amongst the stones of fire" .

Stones of fire = planets ....
Lucifer and his band of renegade cherubim traveled from planet to planet via a shuttle(the same sort that led moses) ...

The bible even tells us the name of the planet Lucifer lived on, Rahab.. It blew up from its core and create the asteroid belt...Ya, the asteroids(halle bop, haley comet, etc) follow the same orbit that Rahab once traveled around the Sun....

Ps 89:10 - Show Context
Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.

Isa 51:9 - Show Context
Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?

"In the first reference satan was trying to get Jesus to bypass the cross. In the others, yes, satan is a being with "power". satan is not God or a God but desires to be. He is a "god" in the sense that he can infiltrate and try to deceive mankind and mess with us. Sometimes successfully and other times not successfully."
.....

My goodness, listen to what you are saying.. heh
According to your doctrine, ONLY 'god' knew that death did not have dominion over Jesus.

How did 'Satan' find this information out?


What is a being with power? sounds occult'ish ..
Where were his righteous counter-parts during this attack?

.... The temptation in the wilderness was the internal struggles of ONE man .... It is only natural that Jesus would have been scared and full of anxiety ...

When I took religion courses in college, the prof insisted the only way to be sure of the 'original' intent of the author was to learn to read the language it was written in. Aramaic or maybe Hebrew. Once the text was translated into greek then latin then olde english then KJ english, you ran the risk of mis interpretation. (Have you ever played telephone, or gossip, as a kid??)

The Old Testament books in the Bible are seperate to the New Testament books. The Old Testament books were written in Hebrew, and the New Testament books in Greek. James I was the first person to translate the Bible into English, from the original Greek (not Latin). He used a limited vocabulary (on purpose) and so I agree about misinterpretation, and understand what you're saying... but I don't trust your "prof".

[edit on 20/8/04 by stoneskull]

"Where does Lucifer get called the Morning Star?? ... That is not true...

This is the verse you are referring to? >
Isa 14:12 -
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

Shawnee, I did not say the Bible called Lucifer 'the morning star'. The only verse I refered to was the Rev. verse that quoted Jesus. Do you have a Jewish/Hebrew dictionary ? The def. of 'morning star' is supposed to include Lucifer. ( after I had read the Sollog site, I asked a friend 'who would you say is called the morning star?' and the response was 'Lucifer'. So I'm not the only one who thought that sounded familiar.)

The main thrust of my post was to inquire if anyone had heard of the Sollog guy, or had seen his web site.

Stoneskull, Don't be so hard on the old prof. it's been 30 years and I was quoting from memory. But the back of my KJV, that was published in Mich. by Zondervan Pub, (showing no particular author for the back section) says "Hebrew and Aramic was the oringnal language of the gospel.....must have soon after been translated into the Greek, the Hebrew form fell out of use, as most Christians spoke Greek.....all 4 gospels were published under the name of "Diatessaron" , about this time all four seem to have been trans lated into latin, soon after into Syriac, and then into Egyptian dialects." Sounds like the old prof fell some where in there with this publishers after- word.

Again, my main thrust was to make the point that translations often lose some things. For instance Shawnee thought I had said the Bible called Lucifer the 'Morning Star' when said ( Lucifer is called the Morning Star).
See how that got lost, without even being translated!!



[edit on 20-8-2004 by frayed1]

[edit on 20-8-2004 by frayed1]

Originally posted by ShawNee922
Jesus even called one of his disciples a " PLANET" ... " upon this STONE(peter)... "

I will have to say that when Jesus used the term rock He was referring to the statement that Peter had just made. Jesus had just asked the apostles who Jesus was to them. Peter said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God." Upon this statement, because it was the truth, the church would be founded. And I don't mean the catholic church, I mean the body of believers in Christ.

Originally posted by ShawNee922
."
.....

My goodness, listen to what you are saying.. heh
According to your doctrine, ONLY 'god' knew that death did not have dominion over Jesus.

How did 'Satan' find this information out?


What is a being with power? sounds occult'ish ..
Where were his righteous counter-parts during this attack?

.... The temptation in the wilderness was the internal struggles of ONE man .... It is only natural that Jesus would have been scared and full of anxiety ...

satan was trying to get Jesus to bow to him. To take a throne before the appointed time. He also would have been doing the will of satan like Adam and Eve had. satan probably thought the same thing as the jews did. A leader is coming to set us physically free. Jesus came to set us spiritually free first. I will admit I don't know how much satan understood about God's plan of salvation.

The "power" of satan is that he has access to things that we don't. he also knows things that we don't know. he in no way knows everything. he can be on earth and then appear before God to accuse us. He doesn't have the physical limitations we do. satan doesn't have power to make anybody sin, only to place temptation before us and to trick us.

The righteous counterparts thing has me stumped. I really don't know what you're asking.

What is the anxiety and scaredness you are referring to?

[edit on 21-8-2004 by dbrandt]