satan the messiah??

as usual i'm probally gona get alot of s@#$ for this post but since when have i actually cared about what people think of me and how many people i pi$$ off.

sidenote: before you preach to me how i need jesus and how i'm headed to hell, keep in mind that i do look up to jesus, i've giving christianity more chanches than it deserves, and nothing that you preach will change my beliefs. and if you are gona preach, do me a favor and actually read my post first. thank you.

while i don't believe in traditional christianity, i'm a believer in the gnostic version of christianity in which the wrathfull god that'll send you to an eternity of fire and brimstone is actually an evil force posing to be the "only true god" and that we've had many messengers from the true infinite god such as jesus, budda, krishna, and satan. thats right i said satan. now why would i say such a blaspemous thing? well first off we all know that satan used to be one of "gods" highest angels till one day he was all like f@#$ "god" and started a rebellion against "god". this got "god" all pissed off and he was banished to earth (the bible also says he was banished to hell, can we say contradiction people) to "corrupt" humanity.

now lets talk about the story of genesis. while i dont believe in the literal version of genesis, i do believe there is a more symbolic truth to the genesis story. so as you all know "god" created the world and created adam and eve and they lived in the garden of eden. all is happy and good, but they were forbidden to eat from the tree of knowledge. which leaves me to the conclusion that this so called "god" wanted us to stay blissfully ignorant. then along comes satan who tempts adam and eve into eating the forbidden apple. upon eating the apple they are enlightened with the widom of god. this of course gets "god" all pi$$ed off and then he causes all sorts of havoc for thousands of years. so why would wisdom pi$$ god off so much? maybe adam and eve learned that the truth about this so called "god".

next lets talk about the occult. suposidly the occult is the work of satan and that dabbling in the occult is "evil" and will give you a one way ticket to hell. i'm a practitioner in the occult myself (though i'm mearly a beginer). my belief in the occult is this. the occult is a paranormal force (kinda like the force from star wars) that can be used for both the purposes of good and evil. the occult can also lead to all sorts of enlightenment when used wisely. once again we get back to enlightenment which this so called "god" seems to hate. so maybe in a way satan taugt many the ways of the occult to show us the path to enlightenment.

then there are other things that are considered the work of satan. we have spirituality, eastern religions, sex, drugs, rock n roll, ect. all of which can also lead to enlightenment when used correctly (you'd be surprised the things you can learn from rock music). so my conclusion on satan is this. he obviously got fed up with "god's" opressive ways and decided to rebel against him. when he failed he was banished to earth along with his followers. being banished (or liberated) from the kindom of "god" he then decided to show "god's" people the path to enlightenment as a means to set us free from his opressive rule. so with all this in mind, satan is no different from jesus (uh oh, i equated jesus with satan), budda, and krishna.

now that you have read through all this, feel free to verbally crucify me.

my cat's breath smells like cat food.

[edit on 31-7-2004 by mutehalo]

mutehalo posted on 31-7-2004 at 03:41 AM

so maybe in a way satan taugt many the ways of the occult to show us the path to enlightenment.

if you havn't realised satanism is part of the occult. try checking it out, (www.churchofsatan.com) that would be the only non-underground version of it.

Going by biblical accounts, Satan was the first angel, set most high above all others. He was God's favorite, or I would assume so... especially since, it seems, Lucifer was the ONLY angel to have free will, a gift God reserved for us mortals.

Free will... this is the only explaination that I can find as to why Lucifer turned against the host of heaven. As to Lucifer being 'set most high'... how else was he able to convince other angels to join his cause, his side?

Unless, of course, Lucifer was, in his own way, unto a god as well... which brings in the gnostic accounts.

Lucifer and the Hebrew god are equals. Yin/yan... one cannot exist without the other. What is good without having evil? What is hell without the hope of heaven? Having Lucifer and God as equals answers alot of questions, such as how half of heaven went to God, the other half sided with Lucifer... and how God, in the Old Testament, acted in so many different ways (there are some Jewish scholars who believe that there may in fact be three different gods, since in the Torah there are three distinct personalities). Personally, I always saw God and Lucifer not only as equals, but as lovers as well, following many different religious sects (with Lucifer as the masculine, God as the female).

But Lucifer as the Messiah? That might be a hard one to prove...

In regards to enlightenment through Satan...

As it states in the Satanic Bible, enjoy life to its fullest... to deprive one of life is to deprive that person of the greatest pleasures known.

And least I forget... Lucifer was the angel of light (ie, Light Bringer)... he brought to man the gifts of fire and music, which is interesting in itself; after all, if Lucifer was the angel of music, does that mean when we go to church and sing hymms that we are using Lucifer to praise God?

Oops, off track...

Anyway, as a Messiah, I would have to lean towards 'no'. But as a god unto himself, or at least, an equal or consort to God, then 'yes'.

Originally posted by mutehalo
... and that we've had many messengers from the true infinite god such as jesus, budda, krishna, and satan. ...

Jesus teaches Humility.
Buddha teaches Humility.
Krishna I am not sure about as I haven't researched it.
Satan teaches Pride.



[edit on 31-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]

MuteHalo - I won't 'verbally crucify you'. But I will say that I think you are seriously confused. I'm adding you to my prayer list. Hope the prayers help. (or good karma, or whatever you believe in and want to call it).

Interesting theory mutehalo. So, in a way, Satan did some good things by trying to enlighten us, by trying to teach us things God didn't wanted us to know. Interesting.

I personnaly believe god and satan to simply be parts of a same entity. (probably a fictive entity)

Originally posted by FlyersFan
MuteHalo - I won't 'verbally crucify you'. But I will say that I think you are seriously confused. I'm adding you to my prayer list. Hope the prayers help. (or good karma, or whatever you believe in and want to call it).

while i may come off as a confusing person, my outlook on life, religion, sprituality, and all that other stuph all makes perfect sense to me. i just think on a different level than most people and rather than go by what others say, i go by what makes the most sense to me. and thanks for adding me to your prayer list, i could use all the help possible.

[edit on 31-7-2004 by mutehalo]

Originally posted by Raphael_UO

Originally posted by mutehalo
... and that we've had many messengers from the true infinite god such as jesus, budda, krishna, and satan. ...

Jesus teaches Humility.
Buddha teaches Humility.
Krishna I am not sure about as I haven't researched it.
Satan teaches Pride.

i never said satan was a perfect messia

Satan is nothing more or nothing else than the boogie man the church came with to scare people so they do not deviate from their strong hold.

As people start to understand the reality of religious propaganda the devil starts loosing his horrible luster and becoming more of the myth that really is.

Originally posted by pyro

mutehalo posted on 31-7-2004 at 03:41 AM

so maybe in a way satan taugt many the ways of the occult to show us the path to enlightenment.

if you havn't realised satanism is part of the occult. try checking it out, (www.churchofsatan.com) that would be the only non-underground version of it.

my theory on "satanism" is that it isn't directly related to satan himself. i believe like all things in the universe, there is a light side (which is wicca represents) and a dark side (which is what "satanism" represents). i also personally believe that satanism isn't directly related to satan himeself, but rather is named after him because he is commonly associated with the dark side. also the church of satan which you refered to has nothing to do with the worship of satan himself. anton layvey's church of satan is mearly about self worship. anton layvey chose the whole satanic association due to the fact that the church of satan teaches the exact opisite principles that christianity teaches.

Originally posted by marg6043
Satan is nothing more or nothing else than the boogie man the church came with to scare people so they do not deviate from their strong hold.

As people start to understand the reality of religious propaganda the devil starts loosing his horrible luster and becoming more of the myth that really is.

my personal theory is that the church in an attempt to keep people blind turned satan into a figure of evil as a means to scare people and make people not wanting anything to do with him. much in the same way they probally took the teachings of jesus (which were about peace and love) and used them as a means to enslave people to the church (hence "nobody comes to the lord but through me").

[edit on 31-7-2004 by mutehalo]

mutehalo

That is a good way to explaing this hole satan and satan worshiping thing.

Originally posted by mutehalo

my personal theory is that the church in an attempt to keep people blind turned satan into a figure of evil as a means to scare people and make people not wanting anything to do with him. much in the same way they probally took the teachings of jesus (which were about peace and love) and used them as a means to enslave people to the church (hence "nobody comes to the lord but through me").

I am slightly confused. How do you compare jesus and satan as both coming from God when they contradict each other so full on?

Looking at the "topic review" it shows that before you editted this post you did meantion how they hit each other full on, so im sure you understand what im saying.

About him(satan) being both banished to earth and hell, there are many verses that call "worldly ways" the way to hell. I could find exact verses if you'd like.

When they eat from the tree of knowledge, they suddenly realize things that never crossed their minds before. For example, Adam and Eve are sleeping together. Yet when they all of a sudden realize they are naked, they find clothing to hide behind. They are having sex for goodess sakes, they have already seen everything, but now feel the need to hide themselves. They also now realize the need for work. They have to hunt, grow, etc. Never had to do that before.

btw, what have you learned from rock music?

---pineapple

Mutehalo, you,re wrong, both historically and spiritually. Sorry to be harsh...

The name "Satan" does not have anything to do with any Lord of Darkness of any kind... It was derived from the hebrew name "saytan", which means nothing more than the "one that opposes". There were some devil-worshipping tribes in the middle-eastern ancient world, but these groups were adorating figures or idols that had more to do with pagan gods than Evil demons.

One must be utterly demented to worship such negative concepts such as "Evil" or the dark side, as it leads logically to worshipping his own demise, and the demise of his fellow humans. it's merely like vowing a cult to murder, or drug addiction... As there were devil worshippers at the times of the Old Testament, there are still, today, misguided and dupe people who follow a "Satanic Religion" that was generated not by thousand years old knowledge, but by the religious oppression of the Catholic Church of the dark ages (mainly by the edicts of pope Innocent III, an antipope).

As I have repeated many times on ATS, there is no such thing as Christian gnosticism. You cannot believe taht Christ was NOT the only link between Man and God, and that Buddha, Krishna, Viracocha and others are "aeons" that are equal to Christ. This contradicts The very basis of the Christian faith, which says that the Lord is the blood of the new and eternal alliance between God and Man, and that there is no other messiah!

Either you are gnostic or you are Christian. You cannot serve two gods. You cannot serve both pagan gods or deities, and the Christian Eternal Father at the same time. Well... physically you can, but spiritually it is a contradiction.

Originally posted by mutehalo

Originally posted by pyro

mutehalo posted on 31-7-2004 at 03:41 AM

so maybe in a way satan taugt many the ways of the occult to show us the path to enlightenment.

if you havn't realised satanism is part of the occult. try checking it out, (www.churchofsatan.com) that would be the only non-underground version of it.

my theory on "satanism" is that it isn't directly related to satan himself. i believe like all things in the universe, there is a light side (which is wicca represents) and a dark side (which is what "satanism" represents). i also personally believe that satanism isn't directly related to satan himeself, but rather is named after him because he is commonly associated with the dark side. also the church of satan which you refered to has nothing to do with the worship of satan himself. anton layvey's church of satan is mearly about self worship. anton layvey chose the whole satanic association due to the fact that the church of satan teaches the exact opisite principles that christianity teaches.

people who belong to the church of satan simply use the term satan as a name for a set of principals, which as you said contridict catholic teachings, as satan would be the "evil-doer" in christianity then why not name it after him?

this is probably off topic as i cant pay attention to what im even writing about but what if satan was our creator, since indulgence is human nature (rest aside christian beliefs) and god would be the real bad guy because he wants us to not be how we are.. or something you get the idea

Sinners And Terrorists Against Normalcy?

People Against Goodness and Normalcy?

Are you suggesting satanists and pagans are the same thing, or that pagans are against 'goodness'?

The divine for heavenly figure being punished or reviled for bringing knowledge to humanity, the "firebringer" myth, is nothing new. In that light, Satan was inspired by the Greek myth of Prometheus, who descended to earth (like Satan, although Prometheus did it in a chariot) to give humanity light.

Prometheus, as you all know, was chained by Zeus to a rock where every once in a while, a vulture would come and devour his liver.

So whether the myth of Satan was put forth early in Christianity or in the Middle Ages, methinks the Church theologians would have been aware of the Prometheus story - either through the early Church's connection to Greece (remember, the Schism between Rome and Byzantium only happened in 1054) or through Greek authors whose works survived until the Middle Ages (Plato among others). It wouldn't have been the first time that the Church adapted some elements from other religions.

You say the Bible says satan was banished to hell. The Bible doesn't say that nor is satan confined to hell. He currently has access to the earth, which is not hell in the sense we are talking about, and the Book of Job tells us he even has access to the Lord to accuse us. Satan also prowls around like a lion seeking someone to devour.

You also forgot to tell the complete name of the tree in the garden that Adam and Eve were not to eat from. The complete name is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. After eating the fruit they weren't like God. They were the quite the opposite. God does only good and while He can't do evil, He knows what evil does. Adam and Eve ceased from doing good and began to do evil and did not know what the consequences of evil would be. Plus they were sepersted from God.

You have to read the Bible all the way through in order to get a grasp on who satan is. he certainly is not an innocent in the universe.

the true fallen angel was not satan but adam,,,,that is why humanity is cast out by all divine order
tell me what you think of this theory...(first off i do not begrudge anyone for their beliefs)
in all scientific theory examine this...
adam=atom(all that makes up life and form)
eve=beginning(first there was the atom and from the atom there came an eve)
the atom is what is
the eve is what became of that ....the light in the beginning....
now how often does an atom replenish itself in our human time....
seven days...think about it...mankind created religion to explain what science could not at the time...
I myself am pagan by choice and that is what I am comfortable in my beliefs
+++loss+++
i apologize if this statement offends anyone....