Disclosure seekers are hypocrites?

Originally posted by ErgoTheConfusion
Please re-read my post to see the word choices I made and stop putting me in the "disclosure is at hand!" group. I can understand the intent and desire though, even if I don't think they are barking up the right tree.

There is a massive portion of the population who won't believe something is possible until they see it on TV in "official" capacity. Those seeking disclosure are seeking for the topic to become mainstream... not for accurate truth but for those who aren't looking at what is *already* out there to be basically given permission by their "info masters" to speak about it as openly as they do economics. Right now people who are trying to open the door are looked at as "crazy" because much of the population will only believe what they see on TV.

By reading your posts though, you seem to be really really dead set on trying to prove disclosure people are hypocrites without actually thinking deeper on the bigger picture effects and motives of a governmental disclosure. You are pointing a finger very very hard... but don't seem to notice the plank in your own eye.

Wishing you the best,
Namaste!

edit on 2-5-2011 by ErgoTheConfusion because: Word cleanup.

I hear you. And what you propose makes sense in a way I suppose. It just seems a bit odd to me they'd want the massive portion of the population to believe in a government they themselves don't trust but only when it's relevant to their beliefs.

I don't mean to point fingers, just making an observation.

Namaste~

For me, disclosure won't be when the government comes out and tells us "Hey, by the way, we made contact with aliens!" No I will not accept that as disclosure.

Disclosure for me would be the day that I see, with my own eyes, Space crafts descend upon the Earth and alien beings dismount from the crafts and walk up to us, the people, and say "Hi!"

There are many different ways one can define disclosure, that is mine.

I agree with your argument though; some people don't realize how they constantly contradict themselves by saying all this rant about how the government is corrupt and can not be trusted, yet they go and demand the government to reveal that we have made contact with ET for a type of disclosure.

This is a reason why, I feel, the subject is no longer taken seriously en masse.

Originally posted by namine
I hear you. And what you propose makes sense in a way I suppose. It just seems a bit odd to me they'd want the massive portion of the population to believe in a government they themselves don't trust but only when it's relevant to their beliefs.

I don't mean to point fingers, just making an observation.

Namaste~

No worries!

I would tentatively agree that perhaps there is some desire to simply stop being picked on (directly or indirectly) for believing in aliens. Basically typical group psychology and not wanting to be alone.

There is likely to also be some "told ya so!" desire as well... especially for those who have tried to talk to family/friends and been looked down upon. Were a well respected/known political person or group to go on TV and talk about it... with the rest of the government nodding their heads... there would be a lot of crow eating from those who took the official line as truth up until that point, haha.

It again wouldn't necessarily make anything being said *true*... but it can be lonely believing all by yourself.

Now the more in depth response should be exactly what you are hinting at... from those who used to believe the government. They should think "Wait... you said NO for decades... and now you say YES? Why should I believe you about anything?" This reason alone should be reason why those looking for disclosure from the government should be skeptical of that ever happening until/unless it can be done in a way that makes it look (on the surface) like those who were talking about aliens before were still "wrong" somehow.

Peace and enjoy the ride!

reply to post by EL1A5


If you do some soul searching about why you're here on earth, and what the work you truly came to do was, not the worldly stuff and to see through it. I'll give you a hint, though some talk of dualities we're all Light and Love and all came to overcome all faults or flaws in us to be even more grown up versions of Light and Love, capable of harming no one, and able to help those in need.

The more you do this, and seek within, and under the stars, the greater your chances of seeing what you'd like to see for yourself.

Here's the deal, acknowledgement is what they seek. Eventhough they are somehow different from the society they live in, they still seek acceptance from the majority. ironic uh?!

reply to post by namine
I think your point is pretty accurate. Just in the nature of wanting 'disclosure' implies a lack of trust and belief in those being asked to 'disclose.' So yes, if they then take the words of those they previously distrusted as honest...it makes hypocrites of them.

Poster child for this style of behaviour is ex-senator Fife Symington. After the Phoenix Lights sightings, Fife made fun of people claiming to have seen a UFO. People in ufology despised him for representing the face of official denial. Fast forward a few years and he changes tack and says not only does he believe they saw what they said they saw...he saw it too.

In some areas of ufology he's now a hero...a whistleblower!

Telling two conflicting stories invalidates both of them, but the second story is the one some people want to hear.

Symington is the 'disclosure' problem in a nutshell.

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by cripmeister

 

There are tons of us who write on all sites, and also speak to many behind the scenes, even teachers at school.

Its waking up the ones who would benefit from the NAZI's disclosing that will bring changes and technology to this world and stop their planned murder of many more people.

One child starving anywhere in this world is a murder though.

Sorry but you didn't answer my question. Who are the real people? In what way are they different from the other people?

I am of the mind that if the government or msm say it, it's definitely not the whole story... or a complete cover-up. That's why I joined ATS.. to get some Real news and discuss Real issues.

Thank the Gods for places that Deny Ignorance!

reply to post by namine


Bravo!
I have been copy/pasting my response to disclosure threads since 2009.
Here is my copy of a copy of a copy of a copy/paste.

I am to the point where I just copy/paste my response to these threads.
So, here you go, my cut 'n' paste.

I do not understand all this "hope for disclosure" that seems so rampant around here.

The very same NASA, shadow government, Illuminati, black ops people that some speak of with outright distrust suddenly decide to tell us the "truth", and at that point we trust and believe them?

Ridiculous!

It will be nothing but grounds for more conspiracy theories.

We will then see this "disclosure" as a cover for some other conspiracy.

I, for one, do not need a government that I do not trust one bit to come out and reveal something in order for me to believe or not believe.

To me, anyone waiting for "disclosure" from government sources is a fool.

I believe what I believe, regardless of what some agency tells me.

And by the way, I believe.

SnF!

Originally posted by namine
Expecting disclosure from a government you don't trust is self-defeating, wouldn't you say?

If ETs are coming here, it is their responsibility, not our government's, to disclose themselves.

Do you trust ETs whom you believe have been covering themselves up like crazy?

Would you trust them more or less than our elected government?

reply to post by namine


Let's say disclosure comes....since you 'namine' don't trust the government then where is the real disclosure going to come from? As a matter of fact NASA will find microbial life on mars by at least 2025 - so you've only got 15 years for someone to disclose the apparent truth before it becomes redundant anyway.

People just want the truth and really what separates a host from being?

Originally posted by namine
Fair enough, it’s too broad a brush to paint all those seeking disclosure. But if you don’t trust the details they’d reveal, why would you believe them when they ‘finally admit it’ ?

I don't think I would to be honest, I really can't believe a word they say any more. Would just be happy that people would be finally taking UFO's seriously in a big way.

Originally posted by namine
So the government will be the good guys at the moment of disclosure (ie telling you what you want to hear) and then they’d go back to being bad guys when the info they give about aliens no longer fits your version?

Basically they'd be good guys in a sense at the moment of disclosure, because they'd be opening up the awareness of the population. Any info they gave out would almost surely be not enough and/or false in some way. So you're right in one way, but they wouldn't go back to being bad guys because the info didn't fit my version, more because it'd probably have their agenda all over it.

Yeah earlier I had to release a rant. I have no one to talk to about this -_- please excuse my idiocy thanks

Honestly, When looked at from a scientific standpoint, the chance of there being Life on other planets is HUGE...
The fact that roaches can live through radiation proves that some creatures can survive under EXTREME conditions...

What does that mean? Out of trillions of stars... and out of the experience of discovering living organisms we have here on earth living under conditions similar to those in other planets, is it sooooo far fetched that there is life elsewhere?
With how old the universe is, and how relatively short our recorded history is, would you not guess there are beings that have been here before, and are here now, or have come from another place and have very advanced technology? Hidden from us for X and Y reasons?

This is PROBABILITY.. Probably, if earth has life, and we are 1 little star, and there are trillions of stars and countless planets + other galaxies with even more stars and planets, then it is HIGHLY probable that there IS life in other planets... It's probable that in Paper Rock Scissors, you will win 1 out of 3 times... And we accept this, but not that aliens exist? I understand.. Guys.. The earth is flat.. lets be real... Galileo Galilee fooled you! hahaha.. It was all a prank... We can watch 2 1/2 men again..

Officially, they are trying to keep us in the dark about something. What it is? Only they and those who will soon speak out know. As far as blindly trusting the gov't, or anyone that does not clearly display what they are doing, i don't suggest we do that.. even as disclosure nears, we should make efforts to come to unite and inform ourselves without this "official" bullcrap. We need to be our own Media.. all of us.. Humanity.

"Bad" guys don't tell you the truth, or give you half truths..
"Good" guys display HUMAN characteristic of Love, Emotion, and Caring. They try to help, not create confusion. We must look for those with Human characteristics... and those things that "feel" true..

Aliens is something that just "feels" true...

I am not going to put my two cents worth in on the subject as such but its a nice break to see a member whos actualy intelliegent and with a personality.

Your spot on many are and have thier own agendas and politics as for the minority we study whats out there and just put 2+2= ?

Awsome thread well done

reply to post by namine


I think the idea of an honest government would be easier to swallow if they didnt lie about so much. If there IS a coincidence of confusions happening over this issue, I find it extremely hard to apply much blame to those who believe that they are being lied to about government involvement in alien and UFO affairs.
If anything the amount of BS suffered by the people of this planet , delivered by thier governments, could be said to be the majority shareholder in causality for such a bizzare state of affairs as the one you posit. There is the additional , though circumstantial and tenuous , evidence for the existance of intelligent life in the universe being found all the time, in the form of increasingly hardy life forms being discovered in brutal conditions, and in the form of an ever growing collective of exoplanets being added to the annals of astronomy, all of which , in my humble opinion, increase the likelihood that SOMETHING is out there.
Its true that these things in of themselves offer no proof of the incidents that have been reported by mankind down the years. But the massive scope of the reports, the wide range of demographics from which the reports come, and the increasing evidence of the existance of many more planets which are capable of harbouring life taken as a whole is incredibly compelling when looking at the big picture. Thats the view I take personaly.
The problem I have with the government position , is that in my view a government should not keep secrets period. No government has ever tried being flat out, no holds barred honest with its people about EVERYTHING it has and does. Sure there are some , very few details, that should not be revealed about military operations that are current. But tech, science? We pay for it all. We pay for every lie we are told. Is it any wonder, that people are demanding some results from all the money they are asked for? We know for damned sure that no where near the whole of what a nations people pays in tax is ACTUALY used for infrastructural or administrative continuity, and we know that aside from those things, we havent sanctioned secret organisations to be erected in our name, and yet they exist and are erected or maintained by virtualy every powerful nation.
These things in mind, I would say for a certainty that if there is a confusion in the mind of man on this issue, it is a result of constant dishonesty on the part of the governments of the world.

Originally posted by taccj9903
I guess the only thing they could do would be to allow complete transparency. Open up all classified files, open the doors to places like Area 51 etc. I'm sure that would quiet many who ride the fence but hard core conspiracy theorists would never be appeased.

In other words, commit political suicide and simultaneously, liberticide.

Things are secret for a reason, you know. And it's not just to keep the citizens from finding out something about aliens, no matter how many wish (or think) it's so.

Harte

reply to post by TrueBrit


Hey I also think there’s a great likelihood of SOMETHING out there... but on here, on our planet, conspiring against humanity with the worlds’ governments, behind almost everyone’s back, with not a shred of irrefutable evidence in sight...? I don’t think the likelihood of that is great at all. I don’t think the government could be that thorough for one thing.

The following quotes from your post are contradictory:

Originally posted by TrueBrit
The problem I have with the government position , is that in my view a government should not keep secrets period.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
Sure there are some , very few details, that should not be revealed about military operations that are current.

Isn’t it possible, and even if more likely, that the ‘few details’ you speak of could be just as mundane as that? Because the average citizen doesn’t know what information the government’s protecting, it allows some ‘believers’ to use the ambiguity as a crutch to support their theories. While it’s understandable how these ‘few details’ may arouse suspicion, if not only due to their elusive nature, the tendency of some people to blow these suspicions into mythical proportions can often times defy logic. In the above quote, you’ve admitted that it is necessary for the government to keep some things confidential, and yet when they do it’s assumed to be for nefarious reasons. It seems to me the government can’t win in your scenario, unless of course they are ‘disclosing’ alien/UFO evidence that they’re unlikely to have in the first place. Even government transparency would not satisfy the most hardcore ‘believers’, who would all too quickly trample over the truth in their haste to find comfort in the land of fairies and unicorns.

reply to post by namine


People believe what they want to believe and disregard the rest. If something comes out that backs up what they believe then they believe it is true. If it goes against what they believe they disregard it as propaganda or misinformation.

reply to post by SaveTheWolves


Yeah, that's the way things seem to work...screw facts, screw the truth, we'll just believe whatever we feel like. Hardly a flattering position to take.