Obama's NEW Birth Certificate proven to be fake hours after release

Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by Elbereth

 

You seem to be doing a great job of ignoring the fact that the LFBC was certified again, after it was altered.

It was certified again after it left Hawaii?? The alteration occured after it was in Washington, after it was scanned. Are you saying it was certified after this? By whom??

Originally posted by prizim

Originally posted by Bonified Ween

Originally posted by prizim
The problem here is that you do not know how a scanner works.

Sorry, you are incorrect.

Uh dude, you can bring the file in Illustrator and see for yourself. You don't understand how digital forgery works.

Perhaps you will want to rescind this statement once you figure out whats going on.

You cannot open a scanned document into illustrator and decide whether or not a document is forged.

Sorry, you are incorrect.

OH MY GOD!!!

I work at an ad agency. I have Illustrator as a result. I was champing at the bit to open up this file in Adobe Illustrator so I could ONCE AND FOR ALL shut up the birthers.

I opened it in Illustrator and my jaw dropped and hit the floor so hard a nearby co-worker came over to see what was up.

Can you open an image in Illustrator to tell if it was faked/forged? Not necessarily.

Can you open up an image in Illustrator to tell if it was doctored? Absolutely.

It is with 100% certainty--fact--the the "scanned" birth certificate was opened and edited in Illustrator before being exported as a PDF and posted on the WH blog.

What this actually means can only be speculated on. If you have not tried to open the document in Illustrator to see for yourselves, yet dismiss those who have as crazy, you need to step back and shut the hell up. I was, and still am on your "side." I wanted them to shut up out this "fake" long-form BC, too.

However, the document was without a doubt edited/tampered in Illustrator. That is a FACT. If you can't accept that, then leave this thread. Those of us who know this small truth are hoping to have a grown-up conversation on the matter.

reply to post by Elepheagle


Anytime you scan a document it is automatically altered as it must deconstruct the image in order to put it back together when it gets printed.

Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by Elbereth

 

You seem to be doing a great job of ignoring the fact that the LFBC was certified again, after it was altered. Now a .PDF file cannot ever be certified. That is not the purpose of it. It is there for conspiracy theorists to play with because it seems you all think that a web image is the same thing as the original document. It is not. His LFBC is not in layers. It is not floating in space in different pieces. It was copied, transfered to safety paper and certified again. What is the issue you are having with this?

You are either grossly misinformed, or deliberately lying. I'm leaning towards one of those over the other, so I'll assume you are very familiar with how Illustrator works.

Here's a step by step using my birth certificate:

1. I grab my birth certificate and take it to the office scanner. I scan the document.
2. It comes into my computer as an Adobe Reader (PDF) file.
3. I open this file in Adobe Illustrator.
4. I open up the "Layers" tab to view how many layers MY scanned birth certificate has. The answer was one.
5. I select the option to "hide" the one layer; the entire document disappears.

This makes sense, because a scan is essentially a "photograph" of the image being scanned, no different than a photograph you'd take with a camera. You get one image.

Here's a step by step with Obama's:

1. I download the birth certificate from the official White House blog.
2. It comes into my computer as an Adobe Reader (PDF) file.
3. I open this in Adobe Illustrator.
4. I open up the "Layers" tab to view how many layers Obama's scanned birth certificate has. The answer is over a dozen.
5. I play around with the more than a dozen layers, choosing to hide this one and that one, while watching select elements of the birth certificate disappear, but never the main image.

I will not insinuate that this means the birth certificate is fake. What I believe happening is that the White House "sharpened" some of the text on the document for readability, but left the footprint for the conspiracy theorists to argue over, and further marginalize themselves.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by Elepheagle

 

Anytime you scan a document it is automatically altered as it must deconstruct the image in order to put it back together when it gets printed.

Please read my post above. You are not understanding what people are meaning by "altered". Yes, the image is altered, but not sliced and diced into separate images.

Originally posted by Elepheagle
Those of us who know this small truth are hoping to have a grown-up conversation on the matter.

Let’s have a “grown-up conversation” then.

By small truth, you mean “the ‘scanned’ birth certificate was opened and edited in Illustrator before being exported as a PDF and posted on the WH blog.”

So let me ask you, have you been able to determine what was altered, if anything, on the scanned birth certificate? Do you, then, agree with the title of this thread and the assertions the birthers have been making? That “Obama’s new birth certificate was proven fake”?

I’m sure you can easily understand the distinction between a scanned birth certificate, as you called it, and an actual birth certificate. Can you give me your grown-up assessment of what are the implications for Obama’s actual birth certificate if the scanned birth certificate has been altered?

Originally posted by aptness

Originally posted by Elepheagle
Those of us who know this small truth are hoping to have a grown-up conversation on the matter.

Let’s have a “grown-up conversation” then.

By small truth, you mean “the ‘scanned’ birth certificate was opened and edited in Illustrator before being exported as a PDF and posted on the WH blog.”

So let me ask you, have you been able to determine what was altered, if anything, on the scanned birth certificate? Do you, then, agree with the title of this thread and the assertions the birthers have been making? That “Obama’s new birth certificate was proven fake”?

I’m sure you can easily understand the distinction between a scanned birth certificate, as you called it, and an actual birth certificate. Can you give me your grown-up assessment of what are the implications for Obama’s actual birth certificate if the scanned birth certificate has been altered?

Thank you!

If you read my subsequent posts, you would see my position would be that you cannot called it "fake." You can only call it altered.

As to your question about what was altered? From what I can see, nothing was altered. From everything I can tell, the text was simply sharpened (for lack of a better word) before being put into PDF form. The thing is, many graphic artists will "flatten" the layers before exporting to Adobe Reader so that something like this cannot happen.

I'm more curious about why the evidence of alteration was left behind so blatantly.

Edit: That said, a better title for this thread would have the word "altered" in place of "fake."

reply to post by Elepheagle

Thank you for your sincere and direct response.

Your opinion then is that the document posted on the White House website was most likely digitally manipulated to make it more legible, but that, certainly, nothing has been proven, much less proven as fake.

So we’re in agreement.

Originally posted by aptness
reply to post by Elepheagle

 

Thank you for your sincere and direct response.

Your opinion then is that the document posted on the White House website was most likely digitally manipulated to make it more legible, but that, certainly, nothing has been proven, much less proven as fake.

So we’re in agreement.

Yes, we are in complete agreement. I just think it's crappy that there is evidence that was altered, even if the only alteration was for legibility. The birthers will grab onto anything...and this is not a straw...this is a telephone pole!

Edit: I will state with complete confidence that the doc was not "most likely" altered. It was without a doubt altered. The reason is unclear, but I've been able to find no evidence of malicious intent.

reply to post by kinda kurious


I sure can wise @$$ Just look at my employment history!!! or look threw public records, if I did time It would have been on a police blotter somewhere!

But then if I was Obama I would have all those records sealed RIGHT!!!

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


NO! I am sorry you are wrong! you can scan a page and save it to a .jpeg file or a .bmp file and it would be a picture of the image being scanned. You would have to manually take the image apart at that point! The default setting on all scanners is scanning as a photograph, which would automatically use a .jpeg file.

reply to post by aptness


The Obama LFBC PDF should have been electronically certified and released directly from the Hawaii DOH.

reply to post by Elbereth


Yes and in read only format!

Originally posted by xyankee
reply to post by Elbereth

 

Yes and in read only format!

Easily done. See link.

PDF Certification and Security Software

Originally posted by Elbereth
The Obama LFBC PDF should have been electronically certified and released directly from the Hawaii DOH.

As a birth certificate and security expert, that I presume you must be for such authoritative statement, your opinion is noted.

The Department of Health is not in the business of posting people’s birth certificates on their website.

The DOH received a request from the President for two certified copies of his long form birth certificate. They made those copies, certified them and gave them to the President’s agent authorized to pick them up. What the White House did with those copies is beyond the control of the DOH.

The Department of Health stands by the copy published on the White House, so whatever you think of it, the Department is endorsing the information on it. That’s acceptable for any reasonable and sane person.

The President and the Department of Health have more important things to do than to try to convince every crazy person out there.

Originally posted by xyankee
reply to post by kinda kurious

 

I sure can wise @$$ Just look at my employment history!!! or look threw public records, if I did time It would have been on a police blotter somewhere!

Sorry pal, but I don't have to lift a finger remember? You proclaimed:

GUILTY UNTILL THEY CAN PROVE OTHERWISE!

By your own assertion, the BURDEN of your innocence is upon you. See how that works?

reply to post by aptness

As a birth certificate and security expert, that I presume you must be for such authoritative statement, your opinion is noted.

Aptness, I see you are here attempting to make another of your incomparable snide, snippy, fact-free comments. Mission accomplished.

PDF files can be certified and secured. That is a fact. You apparently don’t think it would have been advisable for the White House to certify and secure the Obama LFBC PDF. Stake out that position if you wish.

The Department of Health is not in the business of posting people’s birth certificates on their website.

They aren’t in the business of providing LFBCs either, if you recall. Obama could have easily requested that the DOH not only provide certified copies to his personal counsel but also directly post a certified and secured LFBC PDF to the Internet.

The DOH received a request from the President for two certified copies of his LFBC. They made those copies, certified them and gave them to the President’s agent authorized to pick them up. What the White House did with those copies is beyond the control of the DOH.

Did I dispute this in any way? Have you and Sinnthia mind-melded or perhaps mind-melted your impressive reading comprehension skills? Truly bizarre for a renowned bastion of sanity like you, aptness.

The Department of Health stands by the copy published on the White House, so whatever you think of it, the Department is endorsing the information on it. That’s acceptable for any reasonable and sane person.

You are going to have to help me on this one, aptness. Show some compassion for one less profoundly gifted than you are, and direct me to where the DOH specifically endorses the Obama LFBC PDF released on the Internet by the White House.

I could not find any such endorsement at the link you provide, but being crazy, I am currently experiencing hysterics, hallucinations, and a delirium of fever.

You know how that goes, don't you?

Originally posted by Elbereth
You apparently don’t think it would have been advisable for the White House to certify and secure the Obama LFBC PDF.

No, you’re assuming this for me. ‘Advisable’ here is very subjective, because, I, for instance, would have advised the White House not release any more documents.

What I think of your suggestion is that it would be pointless. The birthers that still could be persuaded by reasonable evidence, at this point, have been. I consider a waste of time to try to persuade the ones that still haven’t. Not to mention that a new Washington Post poll shows the birthers are increasingly smaller in numbers to the point of absolute irrelevance.

You can assume, however, my answer to most your other questions to be “it would be pointless.”

I could not find any such endorsement at the link you provide, but being crazy, I am currently experiencing hysterics, hallucinations, and a delirium of fever.

It’s right there on the link I posted.

Frequently Asked Questions about Vital Records of President Barack Hussein Obama II

On April 27, 2011 President Barack Obama posted a certified copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth. For information go to www.whitehouse.gov...

The DOH is directing people to the White House page where the PDF file is posted.

reply to post by aptness


You are right. I am the one who apparently has a reading comprehension problem. I don't believe the Hawaii DOH is conspiring with the White House.

Congratulations. You guys win, as far as I'm concerned. Gloat away.

Originally posted by Elbereth

Congratulations. You guys win, as far as I'm concerned. Gloat away.

For some reason, I don't believe that statement. Could you post a link to a digitally encrypted certified pdf of that statement notarized with a copy of your scout badge and your hand on a fictionalized account of a book extolling the virtues the life and times of our lord and saviour Mickey Mouse?

And don't try any of that Photoshop trickery and image manipulation you are famous for.

Gosh my arm is sore.