France and Italy in call to close EU borders in wake of Arab protests

reply to post by spacedonk


That's what I don't get, the people coming to these countries will have to be given refugee status, to not do so would be an embarassment to the EU. Surely if they're given refugee status they're more likely to head to Britain and France where communities of the same nationality etc are already well established. France I think would be the most hypocritical of all, one of the biggest supporters of these spontaneous revolutions in Europe and they're worried about refugees which the French government alongside ours and Americas are partly responsible for creating. It seems more like an attempt to satisfy populist anti-immigration sentiment within their countries to be honest. Considering increasing support for the right wing in France and Italy this may be an attempt at appeasement of this sort of popular sentiment. To me it just stinks of a blinding hypocrisy that our governments can encourage these civil wars and mass protests and then try and wash their hands of any responsibility to take care of the inevitable influx of refugees which will come as a result of such actions.

These Tunisian immigrants are largely young men who were prisoners in Tunisia and were freed during the uprising.
If you watch the interview done of them, they are almost all young men. A few of them have already been caught in France, having crossed the border illegally, in a stolen car.

France already has a huge problem with the arab population here, and I for one am glad they are at least trying to put a stop to this.

The problem with letting them in, then just waiting for them to commit crimes to catch them is that if they go into the Muslim quarters, they cannot be caught. Those are no-go zones for police because of the danger, and criminals go out and commit crimes, then take refuge in these quarters. Once they're in, they cannot be caught again.

I'm French and for those who not understood what it is...it's a pathetic maneuver from this pathetic president to rali the far right an the extrem to win some point for his election ... he don't give a damn about immigrant, muslim or italy...now he is just focusing on the election... and he use those people...I have as desire to vomit, the nausea overtakes me every day ... the man has sunk very low...

reply to post by coquine

France already has a huge problem with the arab population here, and I for one am glad they are at least trying to put a stop to this.

where did you get this stupidity ?
are you french ?

The problem with letting them in, then just waiting for them to commit crimes to catch them is that if they go into the Muslim quarters, they cannot be caught. Those are no-go zones for police because of the danger, and criminals go out and commit crimes, then take refuge in these quarters. Once they're in, they cannot be caught again.

this totaly wrong it's totally wrong, I live in the 19th district is a popular and multicultural ...there a lot or north african, and they work, they live there life, they are normale...
this young Tunisian people I saw them today in the parks,they sleep in the floor and they wait,this people frome the quarter who give thhem to eat, even animals a are better treated,and you who sleeps and eats you open your big mouth to get out of rasciste crap, Go Have Some degnity
... you should be ashamed to spread hate like you do ... and as we say here in france....

[expletive removed]

reply to post by pitchdragon


Thats what I do not understand. If they make these rules and people move into these countries through the vast coastlines by illegal means it will make it harder for them to move on to other areas. They will effectively be stuck in France or Italy because their borders will not just be keeping people out, but crucially people in!?! I do not see why the governments cannot see that this is the case. Thats why I think there is much more to this.

I can imagine that this is being called for to control the movement of people in much broader terms in Europe, the immigrants seem a poor excuse for such a move, it seems to me with border control again it is easier to close borders. Lets say for example there was massive economic problems in Spain, which seems entirely possible , the reintroduction of border control could be used to stop mass movement of Spanish people to the rest of the continent. I use spain as an example, it could just as easily be any other European nation they want to prevent moving.

I truly think this is motivated to prevent mass economic relocation of European citizens, it is a bonus for the politicians that right wing views are populist at the moment.

reply to post by spacedonk

Thats what I do not understand

yes you got it, this is the big circus...I'm someone well educated in my opinion, I generally do not imposed myself but now i go straight to the point...all these politician who spends their time strutting on TV telling us how these people are the source of our problem...but the real problem is all this politicians are incompetent, the real problem in France is the lack of work, structure, new ideas, how to make a real fair society, this is the fail with a BIG F, But politicians are not stupid they have not study for nothing ... so they count on the ignorance and stupidity of their citizens, they count on the mediocrity, they lies,they hide, they manipulate...and people on the other side of the screen they smile and say hooooooo ! yea this is this evil north african and this muslim who ruine our beautiful country...NO ! this not those people, this is the politician who make the bad decision,who pay with our money and give all the power to the bank, thy give all the credit to the rich and laugh at the face of the poor, but it's much easy to blame the weakest they know they can not defend themself...and i dont understand how people can be so easly fooled...maybe because they a really dumb ! sarkozy give gift to the rich and ask to the poor to pay and he blame the immigrant to hide his incompetence and look berlusconi this man is the mafia... this is what we call democracy...this what we are fighting fore in libya ? what BiG JOKE...
i was born in france, paris,I never lacked for nothing, my father rize me to be proud of my country, as he say france is LIBERTY , EQUALITY, BROTHERHOOD so i will say to people do what evere you want with your country, treat people like animals if you want BUT here in france i will fight so hard and bad to bring back all this stupid rascist where they come frome TO HELL !

reply to post by pitchdragon


Good point! Remember though, not everyone who doesn't like immigrants is a bad person, alot of people fall for propaganda and try and find someone to blame for their country's problems. It's easy to be tricked into supporting the right wing anti immigration parties.
People who are afraid of immigrants are generally pumped with fear from the mainstream media and agenda driven news stories which are selected to create a scape goat.

Those who are fleeing North Africa and Arabia are innocent people who deserve our help. It's wrong for us to deny anyone the right to asylum, especially from war torn dictatorships and oppressive monarchies.

reply to post by lifeissacred

not everyone who doesn't like immigrants is a bad person

ok but give me an answer i still don"t understand for wich a reason somone would not like an immigrant ?

1 - he is afraid
then he must try communication

2 -he think he is superior
then he should try humility

3 - he are a brainless idiot
so I can not do anything for him...and he is a bad person

sorry i can not give any excuse to rascist

Those who are fleeing North Africa and Arabia are innocent people who deserve our help. It's wrong for us to deny anyone the right to asylum, especially from war torn dictatorships and oppressive monarchies.

ho yes!!! sarkozy and berlusconi was friend with khadafi...sarkozy let khadafi pitched his tent in the garden of the Elysee for selling arms to libiya...it does not bother him to receive a dictator this time, sarkozy stab khadafi in the back, how can i trust a man like him, he can stab us and he did it, he ask us to make sacrifice and in the same time he give gift to all his rich friend...dictatorships and oppressive monarchies...sarkozy has really take benefited from this oppressive monarchies...this the bigest mascarade i ever seen in my life and this country wallows in mediocrity and racism enough is enough ..

reply to post by pitchdragon


Yeah, all of our politicians are taking the people for fools, it's all a game to them, a quest for power and influence.

As I was saying before, the people who don't like immigrants are wrong but they have been tricked into it by politicians it's not their fault. It's easy to forget that some people who are racist or don't like immigrants are that way because they are tricked into being that way by what they see on the news and in the newspapers. The best thing you can do with racist people or people who don't like immigrants is to talk to them about what they're worried about and show them that they are wrong, just calling them names just makes them more angry and more against tolerance.

reply to post by lifeissacred


this is what i was saying communication is the best and the only weapon against rascism...but sometimes this is not enough...

Holocaust: The Sequel?

Originally posted by spacedonk
Lets say for example there was massive economic problems in Spain, which seems entirely possible , the reintroduction of border control could be used to stop mass movement of Spanish people to the rest of the continent.

That's more than the Schengen Agreement, for that they would need to change many, many laws, both at an European and country level.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by spacedonk
Lets say for example there was massive economic problems in Spain, which seems entirely possible , the reintroduction of border control could be used to stop mass movement of Spanish people to the rest of the continent.

That's more than the Schengen Agreement, for that they would need to change many, many laws, both at an European and country level.

For a long term change: yes. However, if it was a 'temporary measure' in line with the border closure you mentioned previously that France and Italy experienced then I could easily see circumstances where a 'temporary measure' could be effectively indefinite.

reply to post by spacedonk


I don't think so, the temporary suspension of the Schengen Agreement was always a possibility and was used several times (the last I remember was by Portugal, when there was some summit with some international political VIPs), but I think (I haven't read it) that to suspend the right all EU citizens have to move to other EU countries they would have to suspend the EU "constitution" and change local laws, because that type of laws must be applied locally by all countries, and they are active.

Originally posted by pitchdragon
reply to post by lifeissacred

 

this is what i was saying communication is the best and the only weapon against rascism...but sometimes this is not enough...

You my friend are utterly correct.

My fear is that the racist card is being played here to create further population control and that race is NOT the issue, just the excuse. Blinded by lack of communication the population consensus concurs. As an Englishman I say: 'Vive le pitchdragon et Vive La France', do not accept what you see as #ty opinions and behaviour in your own nation. Vive le pitchdragon.

Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by spacedonk

 

I don't think so, the temporary suspension of the Schengen Agreement was always a possibility and was used several times (the last I remember was by Portugal, when there was some summit with some international political VIPs), but I think (I haven't read it) that to suspend the right all EU citizens have to move to other EU countries they would have to suspend the EU "constitution" and change local laws, because that type of laws must be applied locally by all countries, and they are active.

Absolutely possible. I have to say I do not have the education in such matters to know for sure, only local (UK) experience and of course we have the border protection. It is interesting to hear you say that local laws would need to be changed though. I had always thought (with my limited knowledge of the facts) that a brief clause addendum or change to the Maastrich treaty would suffice. Is that not the agreement that all subsequent legislation is founded upon? Could a Maastrich addendum nopt be used to facilitate the cessation of freedom of travel?

reply to post by spacedonk


I don't know the laws, but from what I have seen all these years, that's how things work.

The EU makes a general law, applicable to the EU, then the EU members have some time to change their own laws to make them compatible with the general law.

I went looking for more information (the EU site has all the laws in all the EU languages) and I found directive 2004/38/EC, on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States.

It says:

The Treaty allows restrictions to be placed on the right of free movement and residence on grounds of public policy, public security or public health.

So I guess it could happen, but they need a good excuse.

Originally posted by pitchdragon
reply to post by coquine

 

France already has a huge problem with the arab population here, and I for one am glad they are at least trying to put a stop to this.

where did you get this stupidity ?
are you french ?

Yes. I have both french and american nationality. I live in the south.

this totaly wrong it's totally wrong, I live in the 19th district is a popular and multicultural ...there a lot or north african, and they work, they live there life, they are normale...
this young Tunisian people I saw them today in the parks,they sleep in the floor and they wait,this people frome the quarter who give thhem to eat, even animals a are better treated,and you who sleeps and eats you open your big mouth to get out of rasciste crap, Go Have Some degnity
... you should be ashamed to spread hate like you do ... and as we say here in france....

I had my house bombed with homemade bombs, TWICE. My kids have been beaten up, my husband and I had rocks thrown at us, our property vandalized, and the police told us they were sorry they could do nothing. The HLM down the street is a no-go zone. If they go there, they are pummeled with rocks and bottles and threatened with firearms. So they don't- can't.

I have a small epicerie- boulangerie and have been held up. Down the street, two other business were held up at gun point, one person beat up and raped, the other had a gun against his head and the guy was going to shoot, but he grabbed something and swung it at the arab. It allowed him to get away, and the guy went to the hospital, so they were caught. But the whole arab neighborhood hit the streets in protest and started burning cars, until they let the guys go.

Here, the arabs are not sleeping on streets. They have nice apartments for free, the get their welfare (a lot because as you know, allocation familial is by child, so with many wives, you can get a lot). They all are driving very fancy cars, without having any declared income.

You and I are paying for their free medical care, their allocation familial, their apartment, their satelite dishes so they can watch arab TV. They say "Nique les francais", writing it everywhere. And we who own commerce have to live in fear.
So do I want to support MORE of this? No, I don't.

I have dignity. But I'd also like to point out that the country was thrown over so it can be more FREE. They don't have a reason to leave it anymore! And yes, a large percentage of those that came over to Italy were prisoners that escaped from the prisons.

edit on 4/27/2011 by 12m8keall2c because: (no reason given)

CLOSE THE BORDERS
SAVE THE WHITE RACE!


Lawlz Joking, I know some idiot is probably going to say that though.

But seriously close the borders.

Originally posted by DuceizBack
CLOSE THE BORDERS
SAVE THE WHITE RACE!


Lawlz Joking, I know some idiot is probably going to say that though.

But seriously close the borders.

aren't you texans about to do that and declare independence from the union?!?