France and Italy in call to close EU borders in wake of Arab protests

France and Italy in call to close EU borders in wake of Arab protests

www.guardian.co.uk

Sarkozy and Berlusconi want passport-free travel within the EU suspended as north African migrants flee north.

France and Italy have thrown down the gauntlet over Europe's system of passport-free travel, saying a crisis of immigration sparked by the Arab spring was calling into question the borderless regime enjoyed by more than 400 million people in 25 countries.

Challenging one of the biggest achievements of European integration of recent decades, Nicolas Sarkozy and Silvio Berlusconi also launched a joint effort to stem immigration and demanded European deportation pacts with the cou

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Related News Links:
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This story is on the face of it seemingly sensible. It is clearly a discussion that should be had in the public domain. However, I was under the impression that border controls were such that passport entry from non-EU countries remained in place - they do. The 'Arab Spring' is really neither here nor there, Countries should respond and increase their border controls. The real issue then should be that countries with borders facing countries that are non -EU should police their borders better. In fact they should police them much more rigorously and take respnsibility for the flow of people into the EU.

Alongside this there is an interesting story telegraph in the media today from Ken Clark the UK Justice Secretary urging EU judges to

respect national differences in interpreting the law and not seek to impose new legislation on British citizens, Ken Clarke, the Justice Secretary, has warned.

Very interesting that we see three of the highest profile European Nations starting to talk about reversing some huge areas of integration between the EU states. I feel encouraged that dialogues are planned if they lead to improvements in the management of the EU, but I fear it could be the tip of the iceberg. We are repeatedly told Spain is the country that will catch the cold if Portugal cannot stop its financial sneezes, this would be CATASTROPHIC for the EU and imo probably undermine the whole enterprise and certainly undermine the future of the EURO currency. Perhaps todays stories are pre-emptive position taking maneouvers?

As a sceptic of life, when I see politicians who represent 200 million people ish from three of the true EU powerhouse nations make such public and bold statements there is something afoot!



www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by spacedonk


Those who control the EU will not lose face and allow the euro to collapse, regardless of how far into debt members and non members get. Estonia has joined. Enough said

It's ok to start an invasion or war but it's not ok to allow entrance to the same people who they "rescued".

This world is losing it by the nanoseconds

Originally posted by 00bil
reply to post by spacedonk

 

Those who control the EU will not lose face and allow the euro to collapse, regardless of how far into debt members and non members get. Estonia has joined. Enough said

Very fair point, and welcome to ATS btw

I know it is early days, however if Spain does go pop financially it will take all of the resources of the EU to support the EURO. I think this will cause a lot of upset in individual member nation states, e.g. Do you think the French would stand for more cuts whilst trillions of Euros go to support the Spanish economy?

I agree in the short term the Euro will be unswervingly supported. I just do not know if that support will be sufficient or sustainable in the face of global currency speculation and potential debt defaults.

I am skeptical when i see stories like this, but three big countries making anti EU noises on the same day is a true 'coincidence' to me.

Passport free travel in the EU? We don't have that luxury unfortunately, I can't leave these shores without my passport, if I could I probably would have taken a trip abroad somewhere during my 2 weeks I've recently had off.

Seems a bit silly to suspend one of the only decent things about the EU however, I don't understand their reasoning for it. As another poster has said, if they're worried about refugees then they should beef up their security in the places where refugees are likely to enter. This would also be hypocritical from Europe however, considering European leaders are pushing so hard for these Arab leaders to be overthrown and are stirring up trouble as well as assisting rebel groups in Libya etc it's terrible that they would turn their back on the refugees they're partially responsible for creating.

I dont like the sound of that, honestly its quality that i can as a member of the EU scoot about here with no borders is auctually really nice and to change that would put us back in time when you had to Que for hours at passport control or when entering in and out of states.

I am by no means against immigration in any way but i have to say the point system Oz use would greatly benifit us here in the uk but allow EU member states citezens in and out.

Secondly i kick out all the undersirable 'Drains' that are the likes of Romania out.

Thirdly i would beef up outside border security to keep every one out of the EU that isint an EU citizen.

However i would not activly police this policy inside the EU member states ie by the means of setting up task forces dedicated to looking for illegals my perspective is to let them come to you, when then commit a crime and you can prove it launch their ass back to where ever they came from no assylum seekers or any thing boot bang your out!

This way your not having a policed state your merly perchance comming across these unruley citizens

Sorry if this is a long waffle but its just my 2cents i believe in creating a utopia thats police dont interfere with your life unless you slip up today our police are to much hands on!

~Mike

Originally posted by Skittle
It's ok to start an invasion or war but it's not ok to allow entrance to the same people who they "rescued".

This world is losing it by the nanoseconds

Blimey thats a whole other can of worms! I would say in the EU we have a moral obligation to assist displaced or fleeing nationals, particularly as our aggressive stance could and probably is at the root of at least some of these peoples movements.

Originally posted by Skittle
It's ok to start an invasion or war but it's not ok to allow entrance to the same people who they "rescued".

This world is losing it by the nanoseconds

I don't know if you noticed, but those African countries are in conflict because the citizens of those countries are rising up against the leaders. Not an invasion.

Preventing 3rd world immigrants from entering your modernized nation is always a smart policy.

Too bad they waited this long to do it.

Originally posted by ViperChili
Preventing 3rd world immigrants from entering your modernized nation is always a smart policy.

Too bad they waited this long to do it.

Morals aside, yes it is for many reasons. The point is they are talking about reverting to the need for a passport to travel internally between EU nations. at the moment for example I can leave the UK (along with Ireland the only country that requires passports to be shown still) and drive to say Sweden through 6 countries and not show my passport once. They propose reverting to full border controls inside the EU, this would be an enormous step back in the plan for a USofE.

reply to post by Drezden


Given Italy's worries, the likely motivation for this is the amount of people fleeing Libya because of it's proximity to mainland Europe, the first stop for most of these refugees will probably be Italy. Libya also happens to be the place where European leaders are desperate to see the current government overthrown, that's why so many bombs were dropped on Gaddafi's people even though there have been higher body counts in many other Arab countries.

Our leaders are stirring up civil wars yet refusing to take in the displaced victims they're partially responsible for creating. I don't get how they can refuse entry to someone from a war zone they're involved in, refusing entry to these people is wrong.

reply to post by spacedonk


You can't leave the UK without a passport, you can try and might not be asked for it if you take a ferry but you will definately have a hard time getting back into the UK or if you're stopped by the authorities anywhere in Europe.

reply to post by lifeissacred



I agree, but in your opinion wouldn't Italy by reverting to old style border control then just get stuck with the migrants in Italy if they still managed to get in. Currently the immigrants can filter out and spread throughout the EU. If it is about external immigrants increasing the internal EU border security will not change anything, only mean any illegal cannot leave your country it seems a strange excuse to me, really strange: lock your borders so the immigrants who land in your country cannot go anywhere else?!?


P.S.: sorry for the garbled language re leaving the UK, I meant to say the UK when leaving and returning is the only place I need to show my passport.

reply to post by lifeissacred


Yes there are bombs being dropped on Libya, but Libya is hardly the only country with unrest: Jordan, Tunisia, Algeria, Lebanon, Sudan, Oman, Yemen, Egypt, Syria, Morocco..etc..

I think something should be done for Libyans, as bombs have been dropped there.

This whole situation started because of Italy and France, as it says at the end of that article.

Tuesday's move followed weeks of feuding between Rome and Paris over the Tunisian exodus. Furious at the failure of other EU countries to "share the burden", the Italians granted visas to the immigrants enabling them to move elsewhere in the EU. The Germans and the Austrians complained. The Belgians accused Rome of "cheating" on the Schengen rulebook. The French government promptly closed a part of the border with Italy briefly, re-erecting passport controls to halt trains.

Italy decided to grant some thousands of visas to Tunisian immigrants and let them visit their families in France, but France didn't liked it and closed the borders with Italy.

Now they are trying to make it an European problem. Something like in a "forward retreat".

Preventing a peoples who have proven that they are incapable of living in a civil society is the best form of action I've seen in years. Its about time....maybe the US will follow suit?

reply to post by Drezden


I can understand your point of view, however I do disagree. Disallowing any refugees from these places which are essentially warzones is from my point of view unethical and immoral.

If we are to deny these people who are fleeing war and persecution we are no better than those who would possibly seek to harm the people who are trying to escape. The revolution in Egypt and Algeria is overwith, at least for a little while. The main concerns sparking these fears of 'immigrants' will largely be the result of NATO involvement in Libya and also the increasing violence in Syria where it is likely another civil war will eventually spring up. Jordan has been relatively calm in comparison to Syria, Yemen, Bahrain and Libya so I doubt we have to worry about many Jordanians fleeing to Europe.

Refugees have inaliable rights, we cannot justifiably send someone back to a warzone or sending them to one of these countries where there is indiscriminate killing of anyone suspected of being in opposition to their governments.

Originally posted by spacedonk

Originally posted by ViperChili
Preventing 3rd world immigrants from entering your modernized nation is always a smart policy.

Too bad they waited this long to do it.

Morals aside, yes it is for many reasons. The point is they are talking about reverting to the need for a passport to travel internally between EU nations. at the moment for example I can leave the UK (along with Ireland the only country that requires passports to be shown still) and drive to say Sweden through 6 countries and not show my passport once. They propose reverting to full border controls inside the EU, this would be an enormous step back in the plan for a USofE.

edit on 26-4-2011 by spacedonk because: (no reason given)

It could be argued it's a big step forward given the rampant immigration breaches going on left right and centre...
Something ought to be done, or would you rather see Europa swamped and drowned in a mad jumble of 3rd world refugee's? The majority of which have little to offer but draining precious resources further...

Originally posted by spacedonk
reply to post by lifeissacred

 

I agree, but in your opinion wouldn't Italy by reverting to old style border control then just get stuck with the migrants in Italy if they still managed to get in. Currently the immigrants can filter out and spread throughout the EU. If it is about external immigrants increasing the internal EU border security will not change anything, only mean any illegal cannot leave your country it seems a strange excuse to me, really strange: lock your borders so the immigrants who land in your country cannot go anywhere else?!?


P.S.: sorry for the garbled language re leaving the UK, I meant to say the UK when leaving and returning is the only place I need to show my passport.

edit on 26-4-2011 by spacedonk because: (no reason given)

The deal is the North African migrants know there's fck-all border controls compared to their neighbouring lands to the west and east. So like any weak-link in the chain, they go for the soft-touch.
Europe's got some serious answer's it must answer and one of them is the out-dated and damaging policy of lax immigation. It was ok to a point when Europe was recovering from the worst war it suffered in recorded history (post WW2).
It's borderline lunacy know that population's are bulging at the seams, money is tighter than ever and there's unrest in the ME.
Once these poor folks get a taste of the west they'll like it and not want to return home. It's bad saying this but the reality is the west can't keep the hand-out's going. Refugee's are not self-sufficient and the true answer is in their homeland where the source of the problem is