Egyptian Cleric: Rules for "gentle" wife-beating and 90% of British women desire a "strong man".

Originally posted by SonofPeleus


As it is written in your own Christian bible:

1 Corinthians 11:3-9

3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is for the glory of the man.

8For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

If you disagree with this, then you are against the word of God.

If Christ is the head of man,as I believe it,can you show a passage in the Bible where Christ hit men if they deserved it,as an example of how men should treat their wives?

If you cant and disagree then you are against the word of God.

reply to post by halfoldman


This is quite clearly a very sick culture and religion. To think for one moment that beating anyone is honoring them is the reverse of all things true and honorable. What is most disturbing is that this culture/religion/people have been manipulated into believing such an atrocity, and in the name of their god. I suppose in their heaven women are routinely beaten and men are made to feel that they did them a favor. Oh wait, was I just describing hell?

"You will know them by their fruits" keeps running through my mind. This fruit is pure rotten.

reply to post by dawnstar


Nice post, and you too Aeons.

it's only the dependency that many cultures actually go to great lengths to impose on women that causes the servitude that calls for obedience and hence "punishments".

And Aeons

All you've got is fear and "respect" which you know you have to beat into them because you can't earn it. Which makes you dislike women even more - you know that no reasonable person who wasn't having their souls crushed like a maggot would never ever want to live with people like you.

...

You don't deserve it, and you know it.

Which is why I fully support banning the burqa and the headscarves. Eliminate these tools Muslim men use to train and condition their women into subservience, and any time there is an honor killing, throw all the men in the family in jail, and their fellow Muslims as co-conspirators, and especially the Iman.

Take away the weapons that allow them to continue to treat their women like slaves.

reply to post by poet1b

honor killing is murder, and should be treated no different than any other murder out there. if it is found that there were many involved, conspiring to commit this murder, then they should all be prosecuted.....
don't even give the murderers the satisfaction of elevating it's ranks to something else, and allowing them to use such a barbaric defense. heck if any of us saw one of our kids killed and was 100% positive of who the murderer was, we still would be considered murderers if we went hunting the guy down and took him out....
if we can't take justice in our own hands in such a case as that, then I think it's insane to think that we would ever accept honor killings....
there's a set course that is to be followed, ya know, predetermined laws, gather evidence, arrest the person, give him a fair trial, jury finds him guilty, the punishment is handed down. and well, we don't want everyone taking the law and justice into their own hands and going after those who break laws on their own.....it's a recipe for chaos and innocents being murdered!

reply to post by dawnstar



I don't know why you think I am calling for vigilantly actions, because I am not.

The idea would be to treat Islam like the Mafia. Most likely these supposed honor killings are called by the local Iman. Numerous people are mos likely involved in the conspiracy, and they should all be investigated, and prosecuted if evidence of collaboration can be found.

Edit to add

And if an Iman teaches the young men in his congregation that non-Muslim women are meat left out for the cat, and they gang rape a young woman, he should go to prison as a co-conspirator as well.

reply to post by poet1b

think you misunderstood, I didn't want to imply that I thought you were calling for people to take the law into their own hands, sorry if you get that impression...
but, well, isn't that what is happening kind of when there is a honor killing, the believe a person has broken a law (who cares if it's an actual law of the country they are in...) and well, serve as judge, jury and executioner....I think that is part of the culture clash...our religious leaders don't determine what is illegal or not, neither do our clan elders...but elected representives serving on our legislator branched. family elders don't decide if the person is innocent or guilty, but rather a jury of the accused peers, and judges. and our death penalty is reserved for the most horrible of crimes, not rape victims!!
we have laws, if they don't like these laws we have, well,maybe they should find another place to be???
honor killing is murder....beating on your wife is spousal abuse....we have laws against it, so well, accept that you just can't do those things...or find somewhere else to live??

reply to post by dawnstar


Looks like I misinterpreted your comments.

In the U.S. one of the big points in the constitution is to prevent religious leaders from calling the shots and being able to deal out justice.

reply to post by poet1b


one of the key points of the constitution is guilty until proven innocent.....
there's no room for justifiable spouse abuse or honor killings as far as I can see...

Originally posted by SonofPeleus
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

You ignorant Americans are utterly hopeless. Illiterate, illogical, boorish cattle. I write in a second language and do a better job than you do in your own mother tongue. You did not listen to the message, instead merely reacted as foolish children do toward something of which they can not conceive.

Oh, I listened to the message. I just happen to completely disagree with it. As for my mastery of English, You might want to take that elsewhere. It's a shallow counter-argument even when valid, and it's certainly far from valid in response to me.

According to your own reason, when a person does something wrong, such as committing a crime, the severity of punishment depends upon their gender. Preposterous! Is this how your judiciary operates?

It's certainly not. However, when a woman does not wish to do what her husband tells her, that is not a crime. Even if it were, he is not invested with the authority of police, judge, and corrections officer.

There is a time and place for everything. Sometimes, after the failure of diplomacy, force is required as a final resolution. How is it you are unable to understand a concept so simple such as this?

In the proper context, it's not a difficult concept. when we're talking about nations of people on the verge of battle, when diplomacy fails, someone is certain to attack the other. However on the scale of interpersonal relationships, battle - physical conflict - is unnecessary in almost every case. So your metaphor falls flat. If your wife does something you dislike, and you can't convince her otherwise... Oh well. If it really drives you up the wall, leave her. Punching her isn't really helpful.

Instead of asking first what the woman did to deserve a beating, you reply with a blanket response attempting to edify my culture on propriety, a culture that has existed thousands of years before your own!

Heh. My culture was running strong while the antecedents to your own were worshiping idols and sucking sand.
Don't think that my nationality and my culture are one and the same. And the reason why my first response isn't to ask why the beating was deserved is because beatings are not deserved. Period. There are better ways to handle conflict. Fights, beatings, intimidation, threats, assault.. these tear at the fabric of a family and a community, and are always unwarranted.

This is why we ought to never waste our time arguing with fools.

Also why you shouldn't bother arguing with anyone who is ethically and intellectually light-years ahead of you.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Originally posted by SonofPeleus
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

Also why you shouldn't bother arguing with anyone who is ethically and intellectually light-years ahead of you.

I see only arrogance and vanity. You clearly do not have much life experience, or, if you have, you have learned very little from it. A good beating would teach you humility, child.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

"And the reason why my first response isn't to ask why the beating was deserved is because beatings are not deserved. Period. There are better ways to handle conflict".

No. This only way to handle conflict is through real or implied force. Only a fool would think otherwise.

or compromise, negotiate, sacrifice, communicate, or just plain walk away leaving the person to either conflict with themselves, or find another fool!!!

if my husband were to hit me, either I'd be gone or he'd be too sick with tummy aches all the time to hit me again!!!

reply to post by SonofPeleus


Your horrible belief system is based on the foolish concept that men have higher moral integrity than women, and it is nonsense.

Men who think they have a license to beat their women when they disagree, will find that force will be used against them, to insure that they learn to behave in a civilized manner.